AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[spector]

I am wondering if this is as simple as the child hating the men for killing animals. Most kids love animals. He hunted them just like he was forced to hunt the prairie dogs.

Good question. I have one brother who liked hunting when he was younger. He killed his first deer within 20 minutes of walking into the woods the very first time my father ever took him hunting. He was 12, and was very proud. My other brother has never gone hunting, and would be devastated if he had to kill something. He gets upset when he hits an animal with his car. If he were made to go hunting, I can't imagine how distraught he would have been. He has only ever fired a gun a handful of times in his life.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I am wondering if this is as simple as the child hating the men for killing animals. Most kids love animals. He hunted them just like he was forced to hunt the prairie dogs.

Who said he hated to hunt? He may very well have loved hunting. Who knows, maybe that is why the father went to the Priest to ask him what to do. The boy could have been begging the dad to take him hunting. They said he was a very active kid and many up there hunt. I haven't heard anyone say he was forced to do anything

 

[shadowraiths]

this reminds me of Micheal Crowe for some reason. I'm not sure why, but it does.
Micheal was accused of killing his sister after a 3 day interogation with police, no parents, no attorney, He finally confessed to the murder although he did not do it, nor was there any real physical evidence to cooroberate that confession. The LE interogated 2 of Michaels friends who LE said gave enough info to warrant an arrest.

Micheal was 14.

This boy is 8.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/not_guilty/coerced_confessions/6.html

Excellent point. Esp considering this child has no adult acting in his best interest. Here's link to news coverage of the tragic case of Michael Crowe.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/reports/crowe/index.html

Btw, and as an aside the PCL:YV (psychopathy checklist youth version) is not given to children under 11 years. This is primarily due to the developmental maturity (or lack thereof) of the child.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Who said he hated to hunt? He may very well have loved hunting. Who knows, maybe that is why the father went to the Priest to ask him what to do. The boy could have been begging the dad to take him hunting. They said he was a very active kid and many up there hunt. I haven't heard anyone say he was forced to do anything

We don't know if he liked to hunt or hated to hunt...The fact that the dad asked the priest means he was not sure it was a good idea and had to get a second opinion. We know the dad wanted the boy to hunt because the boy did end up hunting.

Geez...nobody is really questioning hunting as a hobby...we're questioning an 8 year old hunting. A particular 8-year-old who decided to hunt humans as a consequence or corollary of being taught to kill prairie dogs.

 

[shadowraiths]

It's very possible we may never really know what happened in that home. How could the mother just leave? I wonder what she said to LE.

I, personally, am very skeptical that this child is guilty as charged. Esp considering the allegations appear to be based upon a child's confession. After all, plenty of adults have given false confession due to faulty interrogation techniques. Remember the case Riley Fox? If not, here's a link to refresh your memory.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-il-missingchild-tv,0,1065982.story

The glaring problem here is, the risk for a false confession from a child is an order of magnitude greater. The reasons are obvious. You have an obviously traumatic even that, if this child did not kill these people, he may very well have witnessed their murders. The psychological impact of losing a loved one to violence is profound. Even adults can get it wrong when trying to convey what they may have witnessed. Now add the huge power differential which involves authority figures who are well over a decade (if not multiple decades) older than this child. Then top it off with what appears to be a story pieced together from an adult point of view...

 

[MeoW333]

The whole situation is messed up. The police there aren't used to dealing with homicides at all; they've hardly had any homicides; what was the number 2 in 30 years there?

Why did the father have to consult a priest before deciding to allow the boy a gun or not? Did he not know his own son or how to father? If their was any doubt in his mind about allowing his son a gun; he should have just started him out with a BB gun at first instead of a .22 (like his stepmother suggested).

Why did the father have full custody of him instead of his birth mother?

What is the boy's iq? Was he up to par with other peers of his age?

 

[MeoW333]

Snipped:
St. Johns Police Chief, Roy Melnick speculated a motive.

"I think it was on his mind a long time, and then a trigger just triggered it, and the child said: I've had enough. I'm gonna take care of it today. We certainly have to take a look at physical and emotional abuse, we have to look maybe there was any domestic violence in the home that he might have witnessed, or there was discipline that was given to him, may be it was more strict than it should have been," said Melnick.

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=9320428&nav=14RT

This statement by the Police Chief is very telling in itself.

""I think it was on his mind a long time, and then a trigger just triggered it, and the child said: I've had enough. I'm gonna take care of it today."

Granted it's a small town; most people are related and friends and will cover for their own and not speak bad of the deceased.
It's just very sad how no one will take the boy in with all that kinfolk around. It's not like he'll repeat the same crime.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The whole situation is messed up. The police there aren't used to dealing with homicides at all; they've hardly had any homicides; what was the number 2 in 30 years there?

Why did the father have to consult a priest before deciding to allow the boy a gun or not? Did he not know his own son or how to father? If their was any doubt in his mind about allowing his son a gun; he should have just started him out with a BB gun at first instead of a .22 (like his stepmother suggested).

Why did the father have full custody of him instead of his birth mother?

What is the boy's iq? Was he up to par with other peers of his age?

I would like to know that too because I have always felt a father who gets full custody is held to a much higher standard than a mother who asks for full custody.

I don't think we know his IQ but he seemed to be a very social boy in school and loved playing soccer and other sports.

I just read somewhere that the father always talked about how much he loved his son. This was his only child, right?

imoo

 

[MeoW333]

I would like to know that too because I have always felt a father who gets full custody is held to a much higher standard than a mother who asks for full custody.

I don't think we know his IQ but he seemed to be a very social boy in school and loved playing soccer and other sports.

I just read somewhere that the father always talked about how much he loved his son. This was his only child, right?

imoo

Of course his father wouldn't have said he hated his son or anything that would be very negative. Especially if he was abused. Abusers will go out of their way to hide the fact that they are abusing. It could have been mental abuse; maybe the ex wife killed the husband & his friend and pinned it on the son; who knows..

 

[believe09]

Snipped:
St. Johns Police Chief, Roy Melnick speculated a motive.

"I think it was on his mind a long time, and then a trigger just triggered it, and the child said: I've had enough. I'm gonna take care of it today. We certainly have to take a look at physical and emotional abuse, we have to look maybe there was any domestic violence in the home that he might have witnessed, or there was discipline that was given to him, may be it was more strict than it should have been," said Melnick.

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=9320428&nav=14RT

Seems to be a little bit of back tracking going on here with the Sheriff's department?

 

[MeoW333]

Seems to be a little bit of back tracking going on here with the Sheriff's department?

I agree; we still have yet to find out about the domestic violence calls they police went to over at their house.

 

[shadowraiths]

Imho, the problem w/the abuse scenario is that it "assumes" this child did, in fact, shoot his father and his father's friend. But... just "what if" someone else shot them and he witnessed that shooting? How easy would it be for him to not only be afraid to talk but to also believe that he was in some way, responsible for his dad's death?

It's called magical thinking and kids engage in that a lot... thinking they're responsible for a loved one's death when said loved one is dying from a terminal illness... thinking they're responsible for mommy or daddy leaving when mommy & daddy made an adult decision to divorce based upon adult reasons that they cannot possibly understand... thinking they are responsible for their dad's death for not protecting him from an intruder...

In the end, we may find out that he did in fact shoot his father & the friend. Otoh, I personally, have a problem when LE announces within hours of a horrific crime, that they have the perp based upon said perp's confession. Esp when said perp is an 8 year old child.

If this child is innocent, then his victimization has been compounded by a shoddy investigation. One that has painted his father as a possible abuser and him as a cold-blooded killer. If, otoh, he is guilty as charged, then, imho, we, as a society, might want to sit back and consider what it is about our current climate that is breeding killers at younger and younger ages.

 

[spector]

I have been wondering why the mother was not in the picture either. I have three very close male friends who have sole physical custody of their children. Two of them have children by the same mother. She has schizoaffective disorder (or something similar) and for a very long time refused to medicate with anything other than alcohol. One father was living on the east coast and the other father, whom she was married to at the time, was in another state for work when she had the episode that brought everything to a head. The dad on the east coast moved back here to step up to the plate and the other father had his job description altered. The mom's attorney suggested she let them have custody. She is now being properly treated, but it will be a long time before she has the capacity to parent on a basis other than weekends. The other mother...well she just doesn't want to be bothered with motherhood unless it suits her. She wanted a baby, they had a baby, and as soon as the baby was born she lost interest. The child is now nine, and mom can only be bothered to be a mom when it suits her. I have never seen anything like that before, but I know it happens.

What is this mother's excuse? Her child is obviously in need, and she can't be bothered to even be in the same state, let alone accept responsibility for the child she created? Are there grandparents around? This is a truly disposable child. He has no one to look out for him except for a pro bono attorney.

What did the child have enough of? What made him decide that this was the answer? Did he even really do this?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Seems to be a little bit of back tracking going on here with the Sheriff's department?

Yes, it does. That statement was made last week before the hearing today.


This morning he said this along with the boy's lawyer.

http://www.kpho.com/news/17946277/detail.html



On NBC's "Today" show Monday morning, Melnick said, "There's no record of any problems in school, no reported abuse."

Wood echoed Melnick's assertion that the boy does not appear to have been abused.

"At this point in time, we haven't seen anything indicating abuse," Wood said. "We haven't heard of anything; we're not aware of anything."

Maybe Melnick thinks the "trigger" was the visit from his mother.

imoo

 

[Chezhire]

I cannot imagine they'll be able to charge him as an adult, as I heard today they were intending to do. Anyone else hear this, too?

 

[spector]

Maybe Melnick thinks the "trigger" was the visit from his mother.

imoo

I have wondered about that as well.

 

[Chezhire]

The fact that no one is there for him is very telling. His father appears to be the only person he was close to and he killed him. His mother left the state after she found out what happened. How very sad.

I'm left wondering if he thought that with his father gone, his mother would reappear to "take him home." It's unfortunate, but many of these fleeting parents, who show up and shower with gifts, only to then leave again, sometimes with no warning and with no explanation, "explain" why they don't stick around by blaming it on the other parent so they can be "the parent" while they are with the child. How terrible if this comes to be the case in this sad, tragic set of events, especially since his mother so obviously does not want him.

 

[colette]

The news media had said the boy's mom had just been here for a weekend visit and had gone back to her home when the murders occurred. After hearing about the murders she came back to where the boy is. She might not be allowed to take the boy as she lives out of state. I don't think she has abandoned him.

 

[impatientredhead]

I just don't believe this boy is guilty, or if he is I am very curious about the mother and her recent visit.

 

[DotsEyes]

I don't care what he has done, he is 8 years old. He is a child and needs some help, not prosecution. We don't throw away children. The last thing he needs is to be "in the system". He** I can't remember BEING 8! I wouldn't want to be punished for the rest of my life over something I did when I was 8!

NO! We do not imprison children and keep them until they die!

Poor baby, what did they do to him?

Pray for him. may they show him mercy and kindness.