AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

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Right.

And he already states in the custody papers from two years ago.

Romero also writes about how she allowed a total stranger to blow smoke in his ear thinking it would cure an undiagnosed ear ache and he writes that for a year and a half his ex-wife lived in Mississippi and saw her son a total of about two weeks.

So she must have just left him there with Vincent when she moved to MS which would be about 3 and a half years ago now.

imoo
 
What is reasonable?

Well what is ever reasonable about murder?

So I don't have to look for what is reasonable but know that the reasons for murder are most often very unreasonable.

I don't have to assume that this boy was abused when not one fact has pointed to that.

I don't have to assume that Mr. Romero (who is called Vinnie or Vinny by some of his friends) is an abuser or the stepmother either. So far the PC and this boy's own defense attorney has said "no."

I don't have to assume that because the people that knew them well says he was a wonderful father, that they are wrong.

I don't have to assume he forced his ex wife to give up full custody of the child but I do assume that the Judge made the right call according to the evidence he had before him which seems to be plenty.

Until there is evidence showing to the contrary, I give the two men who were coldly and viciously murdered the benefit of a doubt. They can no longer speak for themselves. I can.

#359 Today, 10:32 AM
Shelby77
Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 12

I've been following this story since it broke and it's been in my mind ever since, I can't get it out of my head...HOW does something like this happen? WHY? We may never know those answers, but I can certainly understand why it's sooo much easier to believe abuse of some sort was involved. I'm NOT saying it was, I'm not sure yet what happened in that house to make that young boy commit such a horrid crime. But, what is more reasonable to have happened?
1. That a man abused his 8 yo boy causing enough damage to the boy to make it possible for his son to pick up a gun and shoot him, or
2. that an 8 yo boy is sociopathic enough to do just to do it, whether it be over a spanking, unhappy w/ new stepmom or whatever
I think any reasonable person will pick option 1, that abuse in the home caused the 8 yo to act out, statistics show us this. How often has a child under the age of 10 commited such a murder? Of his parents, with NO abuse involved whatsoever.
It certainly possible he is sociopathic, but we the facts we have here we can not determine one way or another.
I can say had he not had access to a gun this would NOT have happened but that's neither here nor there. A lesson for all parents, whether you're children show sociopathic tendencies or not, LOCK UP YOUR GUNS.
It's also way too generalized way of thinking to assume, just because I'm in a rural area with the same hunting lifestyle and I also attend church weekly and I'm a good parent, so this Vince must be too. HUH? WE can not judge a book by its cover and looks can be extremely deceiving. Just because a parent gets custody, it's not always the one who should. Some parents have more $$, so can just manipulate the system better than others. Also, this is a very small town, of which he was a local, and to the best of my knoweledge, she was an "outsider". I know how the thinking goes in those kind of towns, courts... Again, I'm not saying that is the case here, but it happens. JUST because somebody made an allegation in a custody dispute does not make it true, how preposterous to think that. I'm sure Eryn made plenty of allegations also, which could be true, or un-true. I'm not going to write anybody off here with the handful of facts we have. I did spend most of yesterday researching this very case, so people can stop assuming things, the mother of the boy more than likely lives in Mississippi because that is where she is from and where her family is. Also, I came across many personal references, (even people in small towns enjoy the internet lol)but not once did I see a Vinnie, it was always Vince to those that loved him.
My heart goes out to all involved in this, no matter what the reasons were behind the crime a family and community has been torn apart. I can only imagine the pain the families of the 2 men are going thru, and the pain that little boy will now have to live with. May god be with them all.



imoo
 
Just to clarify my statement, I was NOT asking anybody to assume anything. Rather the opposite, my point was more there are MORE than enough assumptions being made here. We all have the same set of fact, but yet we all perceive them differently. The only differences here are the assumptions being made. And while some people are being offended by others assumptions, it's being done on both sides so it just seemed rather silly to me. THAT was my point, although obviously I was not clear with that and I apologize, it's not always easy for me to get my point across thru a keyboard, hence my lack of posting lol. I certainly meant no offense or to come off as snarky. Again, the only differences here are the assumptions, however they go.
I have NO idea what went wrong here, AND I DON'T presume to based on the handful of facts and media statements we have. I absolutely don't presume to put the fault on the father, nor the mother who by all accounts was a lacking presence in her son's life, whatever the reasons may be.
That being said I'm a single mother myself and my son is the world to me and there is NOTHING in this world that could me away from him, nor make me move away from him. That's just me.
I try not to judge others unless I have all the facts, and I have only a small amount here, so I'm not judging anyone. I don't believe I made any generalized sort of statement that meant anybody was the way I perceived them to be based solely on my own life experience. I'm saddened by the fact that this happened and I must think something DID wrong here..I just don't know what.
What's going on here is nature vs. nurture....and I have no answer to that debate either. He was either brought into this world this way, or the person who raised him created this situation, those are pretty much the options I see. The only thing I'm sure of is the pain the family of the boy is going thru which must be immense.
I see alot of victims in this story, it makes my heart heavy with sadness to think of they must be going thru. Please don't think I meant to bash a murder victim, that was never my intent, I just refuse to bash an 8 yo yet also, murderer or not (and yes I DO believe he did it, don't take that wrong either). I don't think anyone's opinons are wrong and we are all entitled to them. I was simply making mine clear as some people on here have already done repeatedly. I don't know these people, so I am not speaking for anyone but myself, allow his family to speak for him if they chose to. I speak only for myself. Godspeed.
 
I don't have to assume that this boy was abused when not one fact has pointed to that.

imoo

After reading more of the local comments, I am wondering more about this child's early childhood development and his capacity to handle anger. Not to mention the early hunting affecting the natural ability of a child for empathy.

It does appear that Vince was hands-on and involved and was taking his responsibilities seriously...but what was the situation like in the home when <redacted> was a toddler in a dysfunctional home with a teenaged mom and only slightly older dad?

All we know about the biomom visits was the allegation of a boyfriend blowing smoke in his ear...there could be more there unreported as well.
 
Shelby, I do perfectly understand your thoughts and opinions about this tragic case. I think it is also easier to find that maybe something untoward was happening to the child than to consider there may not have been.

But I try very hard to not state what we don't know.

I can only take what has been revealed.

I see the countless posts left on other sites by those who knew the Romero family well and yes, you are right they are brokenhearted. Who wouldn't be? They just don't understand how this could have happened to this father and his friend by this father's son.

We have read the contents of the hearing that was held last week and it does show what happened and what was said and believed for awhile by law enforcement and why his story and cover up fell apart.

I take the words this boy said to LE very seriously. He is the one that said he was mad with his father for having his step mom give him a spanking of 5 swats just the night before he did this unspeakable thing. So that has to be weighed like it is in every case imo. He certainly never mentioned the abuse as they certainly wouldn't be saying they have uncovered no abuse but would have either refused to comment or would say they had uncovered it. And he certainly had no bruises from the spanking or there again they would not have said they have uncovered no abuse.

So imo it is as reasonable to think that this boy became enraged over the spanking he got just as it is as reasonable to think maybe there was abuse.

But in the end like most cases I don't think there will be reasonableness found in a very senseless double homicide.

JMO though.
 
I've been following this story since it broke and it's been in my mind ever since, I can't get it out of my head...HOW does something like this happen? WHY? We may never know those answers, but I can certainly understand why it's sooo much easier to believe abuse of some sort was involved. I'm NOT saying it was, I'm not sure yet what happened in that house to make that young boy commit such a horrid crime. But, what is more reasonable to have happened?
1. That a man abused his 8 yo boy causing enough damage to the boy to make it possible for his son to pick up a gun and shoot him, or
2. that an 8 yo boy is sociopathic enough to do just to do it, whether it be over a spanking, unhappy w/ new stepmom or whatever
I think any reasonable person will pick option 1, that abuse in the home caused the 8 yo to act out, statistics show us this. How often has a child under the age of 10 commited such a murder? Of his parents, with NO abuse involved whatsoever.
It certainly possible he is sociopathic, but we the facts we have here we can not determine one way or another.
I can say had he not had access to a gun this would NOT have happened but that's neither here nor there. A lesson for all parents, whether you're children show sociopathic tendencies or not, LOCK UP YOUR GUNS.
It's also way too generalized way of thinking to assume, just because I'm in a rural area with the same hunting lifestyle and I also attend church weekly and I'm a good parent, so this Vince must be too. HUH? WE can not judge a book by its cover and looks can be extremely deceiving. Just because a parent gets custody, it's not always the one who should. Some parents have more $$, so can just manipulate the system better than others. Also, this is a very small town, of which he was a local, and to the best of my knoweledge, she was an "outsider". I know how the thinking goes in those kind of towns, courts... Again, I'm not saying that is the case here, but it happens. JUST because somebody made an allegation in a custody dispute does not make it true, how preposterous to think that. I'm sure Eryn made plenty of allegations also, which could be true, or un-true. I'm not going to write anybody off here with the handful of facts we have. I did spend most of yesterday researching this very case, so people can stop assuming things, the mother of the boy more than likely lives in Mississippi because that is where she is from and where her family is. Also, I came across many personal references, (even people in small towns enjoy the internet lol)but not once did I see a Vinnie, it was always Vince to those that loved him.
My heart goes out to all involved in this, no matter what the reasons were behind the crime a family and community has been torn apart. I can only imagine the pain the families of the 2 men are going thru, and the pain that little boy will now have to live with. May god be with them all.


Hi Shelby, welcome to Websleuths :)

While we don't know the reasoning behind the murders, there are more than 2 victims in this story; the surviving family members are also victims; as well as an 8 year old boy.
Certainly, i agree with you their would not have been 2 murders if the child was not allowed access to guns. People can say oh well he would have used a knife etc. A grown adult can fend off a child attacking them with other weapons. A gun is the most fatal.
If the father had to question a priest as to whether or not his son should have a gun, then he didn't know his own son very well. Any doubt in his mind, his son should not have got a gun.
 
Ms. Bloomfield described her son as a “normal boy” who played video games nonstop and doted on his new dog, a boxer. But in recent months, she said, he “seemed to be changing.”

For the poster who wanted the link about the video games.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/us/13child.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin


It's interesting that this bio mom seems to know so much about her son's activities when she doesn't live anywhere near him and rarely sees him. If this boy was active in sports it doesn't sound like all he did was sit and play video games nonstop. I guess if I were in her shoes I would put on a front and at least act like I knew what was going on in my son's life too. Her statement that her son "seemed to be changing" in recent months hints that the stepmom has something to do with him changing as the couple had only been married for a couple of months. It sounds to me like the bio mom is pointing fingers at the stepmother as the reason that this happened. Maybe a few of those fingers should be pointed at herself as she is the one who hasn't really played a part in this young boy's life. Kind of hard to even know your kids when you only see them once a month...and that has just been recently.

Thanks for the video link...I appreciate it.
 
I agree, Linda.

And in the end I think we will be no closer to making any sense of these senseless killings.

Right, the luring and laying in wait to me is the scariest part of this case although all of it is mind boggling.

He seemed to be a very fast thinker or maybe he was just a very methodical planner.

I wonder if his dad and coworker had just come in from work and since they both worked at the power plant they most likely rode together.

imoo

How are young children trained to hunt? Is there methodical planning involved in hunting animals? I don't know so please enlighten me.. i apologize for coming off as ignorant. I'm just wondering where he got his "luring" skills from. Possibly exposure to violent movies? Elsewhere? a combination?
Fast thinking would have to be involved in hunting or you miss your chance to shoot your prey.
imo
 
The only problem that I have with that though, MeoW, it puts a connotation that they must have been hiding something. How easy it is to say "oh we don't know what goes on behind closed doors" and it implies that there was things going on that shouldn't have been when the factual truth may very well be there was nothing untoward going on in the family behind closed doors at all.

Now I do know it is a favorite defense attorney's tactic because it is impossible to disprove a negative.

I have seen nothing that shows me that there was anything wrong or abusive going on in the Romero home. So I can't just assume there was but that is just me.

I guess I have just seen this in the past where some people are jealous of other couples relationships and seems to want to put down those successful happy relationship by implying something nefarious has to be going on in the couple homes when it isn't at all.

imoo

I don't base my opinions on jealousies if you were talking about me. Just like you I base it on experiences in my own life and in those that I read about on these threads. I realize that you and your husband have successfully blended your families. Congratulations. I know people that have been able to do that and it's great when it works but a lot of times it doesn't. My only point is just because the family seemed almost perfect to outsiders you really don't know what goes on in that house unless you lived in it.

I pride myself in trying to look at things from both sides. My only point is that a normal, well-adjusted child doesn't murder their father and family friend at eight years old. Whether the kid was born with a missing chip or was abused, someone had to know that. You don't go to school, church, etc. and appear as a good kid and then murder.
 
After reading more of the local comments, I am wondering more about this child's early childhood development and his capacity to handle anger. Not to mention the early hunting affecting the natural ability of a child for empathy.

It does appear that Vince was hands-on and involved and was taking his responsibilities seriously...but what was the situation like in the home when <redacted> was a toddler in a dysfunctional home with a teenaged mom and only slightly older dad?

All we know about the biomom visits was the allegation of a boyfriend blowing smoke in his ear...there could be more there unreported as well.

Please I know you mean well, Twinkie...but please don't put young hunters down as if they don't love animals or say they don't have empathy . Just because they may shoot wild game to eat or shoot varmints that infiltrate yards and destroy crops never means they don't love all other living things. You will find that many young and older hunters have wonderful pets that they dote on and love on constantly. I myself have hunted since I was 7 and pets have always had a major part of my heart. Even today I have 7 beautiful cats and two precious dogs and still go hunting with my family.

Maybe I just misunderstood what you were saying about "empathy" or compassion and if I did then I apologize in advance. I admit I am a little touchy if I think someone has the wrong impression about hunters.

But anyway, I did read the same thing and it seemed his bio mother may have done some very reckless things while carrying this boy but I feel since Vincent was so aware of the danger with him being a preemie that he most likely always tried to take care of him diligently.

imoo
 
I don't base my opinions on jealousies if you were talking about me. Just like you I base it on experiences in my own life and in those that I read about on these threads. I realize that you and your husband have successfully blended your families. Congratulations. I know people that have been able to do that and it's great when it works but a lot of times it doesn't. My only point is just because the family seemed almost perfect to outsiders you really don't know what goes on in that house unless you lived in it.

I pride myself in trying to look at things from both sides. My only point is that a normal, well-adjusted child doesn't murder their father and family friend at eight years old. Whether the kid was born with a missing chip or was abused, someone had to know that. You don't go to school, church, etc. and appear as a good kid and then murder.

No, I wasn't referring to you at lizzy at all... just what I have seen in my own personal life.

I agree, I don't think the child was well adjusted. Maybe we will learn more about him and how he processed things as this goes forward.

Just because he had no discipling problems in school he could have struggled in other areas. We will have to see. I am sure they will most likely call his teachers to testify.

imoo
 
~ snip~ I really don't put much weight in what the neglectful bio mom has to say about a household she did not live in. ~

So, if the boy had lived with his mom after the divorce and the dad had moved away & driven back 20 hours one way once a month for visistation, would you be describing him as neglectful? In today's society, I think not. He would be described as doing the best he could after having his child ripped away from him.
One of the articles I read said she left after her normal visit & upon hearing about this incident came back to be with her son & was with him in court. I have not seen anything that said she left since then. I could have missed it.

I don't know this child's thoughts that day. Nor does anyone else posting.
I don't know what went on behind closed doors in that family. Nor does anyone posting.

I do not hold the lable "sociopath" to this child at this point & I may never. (My bio father was one & I do know the signs at a personal level & thankfully was not raised in it.) There is not enough evidence present yet for anything other than conjecture, speculation and opions (IMO) and it is really hard to read all of this opinion relative to it all.

I keep reading hoping for fact, but with a gag order on the case, even the points that get presented as fact are still laced with specutlation & conjecture because there is nothing being reported that allows real truth yet.

Regardless of what this child did, he is still a child and my heart hurts for him and every other child that isn't mature enough to deal with the rights/wrongs/justice/injustice of their short little lives ~ good, bad, or indifferent. Do I wish he had enough presence of mind to have not taken whatever was in him to this extreme. Hell yeah. Do I think he actually knew what he was doing? I don't know and I don't think anyone knows at this point. It can only be speculated. I hate that there is a child this age in jail, with probably no emotional support for coping with the reprecussions of his actions. Sure, there are jailers & clinicians, but noone there to hold him if breaks down to cry over the reality of what has happened. A reality that I'm not sure he got when it was happening.
 
My only point is that a normal, well-adjusted child doesn't murder their father and family friend at eight years old. Whether the kid was born with a missing chip or was abused, someone had to know that. You don't go to school, church, etc. and appear as a good kid and then murder.

THIS right here is what I am struggling to understand. This case has really grabbed at my heartstrings I believe for this for very reason. WHY did this happen? I can't seem to so make an answer for myself to this question like it seems other posters here already have.
I understand why it's easier for people to think he was abused in this situation. How else can such a young boy commit such a seemingly cold blooded act. I, personally have not come to that conclusion, but I see why others find it easier to believe though. I really can't come to any kind of answer that seems reasonable to me.
But how could what seemed to be a normal well-adjusted child do this? How?
Did hunting play a role? Possibly. Maybe not at all. I find more likely it did. While I firmly believe most people (including this father to be clear) teach their children gun safety, not to hunt humans, etc. But I don't believe all children are capable of doing such activities without it effecting them in some way. I'm sure most people do it for survival reasons, practical reasons. They're going to eat the food, or get rid of pests. I get that, as I come from a hunting background. As a sidenote, at my son's junior high school graduation, they gave a hunting award lol. So I really do get the hunting thing and am not trying to offend anyone with my statements. But there are hunters who hunt just to hunt. To prey. For the enjoyment of the laying and waiting and satisfaction they get from another "score". I'm sure some of them hunted at young age too. There are people who kill animals for no good reason and proclaim themselves "hunters". I've seen both. And I make those statements with the utmost respect to hunters, as I see nothing wrong with it personally, and I can certainly understand wanting to share your way of life with your children. And I do believe that is all this father was trying to do. But all children are different, and we need to take those differences into account. Just because the large marjority of children are taught to hunt with no consequence, I can believe some kids are simply not ready for this at the age of 8.
I do think for SOME reason this child was not capable mentally to handle the ramifications of hunting. I just think it and don't proclaim it to be fact. Apparently his father questioned it too. As we've heard he discussed it with his priest. I only wish he followed thru with his and his wife's first instinct.
I'm not attempting to lay blame at victims feet, but we are responsible for our children. His child commited a heinous act and there must be a WHY. If no abuse, which there does not appear to be, WHY. How did nobody see this coming. If he was mentally unstable, nobody saw. If it turns out there really was no sign or provocation (ie self defense in some way of past abuse), AND no signs he was sociopathic, well that is just downright SCARY.
The question is, did he get some kind of secret thrill from laying in wait and killing. Is it possible hunting stirred up some tendencies within him that he simply born with? I suppose so.
NONE of it makes any sense to me, no matter what angle I look at it from, or whose viewpoint I try to see. I know nobody here can answer it for me and I'll stop rambling now. I appreciate all the opinons on here, and the reasons people come to those. We are all struggling with how can this happen. I know I'm not the only one.
 
No matter what happens to <redacted>, he'll be counseled. How does someone go about counseling such a boy? Where does one begin?
 
Please I know you mean well, Twinkie...but please don't put young hunters down as if they don't love animals or say they don't have empathy.

imoo

Children have a natural empathy to all living creatures, particularly mammals, and training them to kill "varmints" at a young age would undo that empathy. I don't care how much you love your cats and dogs, training a small child to kill is undoing his humanity. An older child would be able to much better weigh the value of ridding the area from "varmints" vs. shooting a family pet. And given the acts that occurred, we can see clearly that his anger outweighed his sense of empathy for the two adult victims.
 
Children have a natural empathy to all living creatures, particularly mammals, and training them to kill "varmints" at a young age would undo that empathy. I don't care how much you love your cats and dogs, training a small child to kill is undoing his humanity. An older child would be able to much better weigh the value of ridding the area from "varmints" vs. shooting a family pet. And given the acts that occurred, we can see clearly that his anger outweighed his sense of empathy for the two adult victims.

You couldn't be more wrong
 
You couldn't be more wrong

i agree. people who have never lived where killing vermin or hunting for food, or raising animals to kill for food is normal part of life, cannot wrap their heads around this. i understand, my hubby is a city boy, and he was appalled by my gun use. he got used to it.

i also know that there ARE bad children, for no real reason but something not connected in their head, i guess. i dont know enough about this boy to even guess the why of it, but blaming his daddy because he taught the child to use a gun is wrong.

imo, IF the bio mom is telling the truth about him playing video games too much, that is more likely to cause him to lose the sense that shooting is KILLING.
 
Children have a natural empathy to all living creatures, particularly mammals, and training them to kill "varmints" at a young age would undo that empathy. I don't care how much you love your cats and dogs, training a small child to kill is undoing his humanity. An older child would be able to much better weigh the value of ridding the area from "varmints" vs. shooting a family pet. And given the acts that occurred, we can see clearly that his anger outweighed his sense of empathy for the two adult victims.

OK, you win, twinkie. All young hunters have no empathy for any living thing according to you. All of them are just bad unemphatic monsters because they have learned to hunt for the food their families processes and eats. Or have learned to shoot pests that can carry diseases to the other animals like pets, livestock and other animals in the woods or destroys crops.

Training a small child to kill legal game is undoing his humanity? Really? From the beginning of time people, including youth, have been taught to kill for their food source and to remove what has harmed their environment and what could harm them. Not everyone has depended on slaughterhouses where the animals are grossly treated inhumanely when being slaughtered.

Strange that you try to imply all children that hunt have no empathy toward animals and human life when a case like this is so extremely rare. :confused:

But I will tell you this my humanity is in tact and so are millions of hunters including those who were taught to hunt at a young age, that have never harmed or mistreated a pet or any other animal that is not to be killed legally under the tight guidelines of the DNR in each state or another human being in their entire lives.

I don't understand your sentence. "And given the acts that occurred, we can see clearly that his anger outweighed his sense of empathy for the two adult victims":confused: I actually have never heard of any murderer who had any sense of empathy for the victims they have killed. If they had empathy for their victims beforehand I don't believe any of them would have murdered in the first place. It is obvious anger trumps empathy when one decides to murder someone. So this boy is no different. Anger is a very dangerous igniter when it erupts and it can and does get people killed. We see it happen way too many times and many of these perpetrators wouldn't know a game hunting field if it fell on their heads.

I know you don't care that I love my animals and always have but that is okay, "I" know how much I have always loved and cared for all the pets I have had throughout my life, starting when I was a very, very young child.

imoo
 
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