AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[MeoW333]

You couldn't be more wrong

Without the child having a completely normal and loving homelife (including biomom & what may have happened during the divorce) Twinkie can't be more right.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Many serial killers have started out killing small animals as children. Why would a caring parent put their child's psyche in harms way by encouraging this behavior?

Which notorious serial killers were taught to be legal game hunters as a child?

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Without the child having a completely normal and loving home life (including biomom & what may have happened during the divorce) Twinkie can't be more right.

Please explain. Since there are millions of children in the same remarriage households how does it make this boy's home life any different than all the rest? It is not unusual anymore to see fathers awarded custody. It is common that the parent eventually remarries.

imoo

 

[MeoW333]

Okay; to clear some things up. Serial killers have tortured and killed animals; taking pleasure in the suffering.
Regular people who are from hunting families try and insure a quick death by bullet and then take home the food to eat. Not taking pleasure in the suffering; yet sharing in the joy of preparing and eating the food they had caught. There have been cases of serial killers who were game hunters like Robert Hansen who eventually kidnapped hookers than hunted them on his private property (after flying them to the land in his private plane). This is obviously not a common thing.

If the child had a loving nurturing mother as well as father; both involved in a stable home life; i don't see him having murdered anyway. That is not the case with this story.

It has more to do with what the child was lacking in his home life and less to do with being brought up a hunter. His hunting skills he used on his father and their roomer. Normal children from game hunting/eat your game families do not kill humans at age 8. Therefore we must look at the factors involved that may or may not have played a part in the murders.
We know his parents were divorced

1. The mother was not in his life for the most part and made some bad decisions (i.e. having a friend blow smoke in his ear to "cure" an ear infection and also herself smoking around his when his lungs aren't fully developed)

2. The domestic calls to the house that we won't hear about due to the gag order. When; which wife; and what went on.

3. Any emotional abuse that may or may not happened to the boy.

An 8 year old boy needs his nurturing mother with him. Unfortunately the boy did not have that.

 

[twinkiesmom]

You said game...I never said game....And since when are prairie dogs game?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoosadism

"the FBI has found that a history of cruelty to animals is one of the traits that regularly appears in its computer records of serial rapists and murderers, and the standard diagnostic and treatment manual for psychiatric and emotional disorders lists cruelty to animals as a diagnostic criterion for conduct disorders."

Notable zoosadists:
Jeffrey Dahmer
John Travers
Henry Lee Lucas
Brendan McMahon
Robert Garrow
Dennis Rader
Rostislav Bogoslevsky[9]
John Duffy and David Mulcahy[10]
Richard Chase[11]

 

[MeoW333]

Ocean; i explained above a little. Tell me if i didn't explain enough or if i worded it bad and i will try an elaborate.

 

[MeoW333]

You couldn't be more wrong

Is your lack of empathy for this boy based on personal experiences with your 11 year old adopted child that you had posted about in "up to the minute" news?

Every case is different. This boy has not been in any of the systems until now.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ocean; i explained above a little. Tell me if i didn't explain enough or if i worded it bad and i will try an elaborate.

Thank you, MeoW. Yes, you did explain it very nicely. I saw the post after I posted mine. Sorry.

imo

 

[MeoW333]

Am I the only one who is questioning this? I have only been following this case intermittently, but I too have questioned what happened here.

Here is my impression of the current theory.

Boy shot his father, waited for the boarder to come home, then shot him too. Then went to his neighbor's home and told the neighbor that he thought his father was dead. Then boy basically confessed to police. Boarder was thought to have been killed because he might have been a witness.

But the boy didn't wait for the stepmother to come home and kill her. Why??? Why kill the boarder then go to the neighbor and tell? I don't know it just puzzles me.

Hints of previous domestic violence in the home. Could the boy have been thinking that he was protecting the stepmother, not himself? Could he have been upset because the boarder was aware of problems/possible abuse of the stepmother and didn't do anything about it?

These are very good questions. The stepmother did give him 5 swats the night before, too; yet he didn't aim for her. I also wonder where she was during that time.

8 year olds can't keep secrets long. He did go over the neighbor's right away and tell his friend; who in turn told his older brother, who called his father, at work who called police.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You said game...I never said game....And since when are prairie dogs game?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoosadism

"the FBI has found that a history of cruelty to animals is one of the traits that regularly appears in its computer records of serial rapists and murderers, and the standard diagnostic and treatment manual for psychiatric and emotional disorders lists cruelty to animals as a diagnostic criterion for conduct disorders."

Notable zoosadists:
Jeffrey Dahmer
John Travers
Henry Lee Lucas
Brendan McMahon
Robert Garrow
Dennis Rader
Rostislav Bogoslevsky[9]
John Duffy and David Mulcahy[10]
Richard Chase[11]

I didn't only list game, twinkie. The DNR including AZ allows the prairie dog to be legally hunted. We don't have prairie dogs down here but I imagine they are considered pests/critters like we have here in this area.

The prairie dog can carrying diseases and does destruction to farm crops and can take out entire grass root systems in yards.

All I know they are legal and are listed on the AZ DNR site.

 

[twinkiesmom]

These are very good questions. The stepmother did give him 5 swats the night before, too; yet he didn't aim for her. I also wonder where she was during that time.

8 year olds can't keep secrets long. He did go over the neighbor's right away and tell his friend; who in turn told his older brother, who called his father, at work who called police.

The locals posted that the stepmom was on her way home from work when the murders occurred.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I didn't only list game, twinkie. The DNR including AZ allows the prairie dog to be legally hunted. We don't have prairie dogs down here but I imagine they are considered pests/critters like we have here in this area.

The prairie dog can carrying diseases and does destruction to farm crops and can take out entire grass root systems in yards.

All I know they are legal and are listed on the AZ DNR site.

You are totally missing the point. This is not a 2nd amendment or hunting debate. This is not about you or your weapons or your beloved pets. It doesn't matter that the prairie dog was legal to shoot.

This debate is about allowing a child who is not old enough to drive or even attend middle school own and operate a 22 gauge shot gun and kill small animals with that weapon. And to have said weapon unsecured in the house.

Society's right to be protected from armed and dangerous 8-year-olds outweighs the right to hunt. The gun turned an angry child over a simple punishment into a double murder.

 

[MeoW333]

The locals posted that the stepmom was on her way home from work when the murders occurred.

Thank you twinkie, i had missed that one

So i guess the question is did the boy intend to target the stepmother as well? and his plan foiled when he shot the boarder in the doorway (obviously too little to move a body). This whole case is one for the records..


FBI statistics show that there were only 2 murderers between ages 5-8
and there were 16 ages 9-12 (2 of which were females)
during 2004. For the latter ages; 9-12; it is hard to get a median age without knowing the individual ages of each juvenile within those statistics.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/murder.html

 

[MeoW333]

I am wondering if the boy was a latchkey kid as his father, step mother and the boarder all worked. Did he roam around by himself with unsupervised access to his .22 rifle?
If he did play videogames constantly as was stated in another post; then perhaps it was used as a "babysitter" for the child in wait until the adults got home?

 

[twinkiesmom]

I am wondering if the boy was a latchkey kid as his father, step mother and the boarder all worked. Did he roam around by himself with unsupervised access to his .22 rifle?
If he did play videogames constantly as was stated in another post; then perhaps it was used as a "babysitter" for the child in wait until the adults got home?

I got the info on the stepmom driving home from the comments on one of the AZ websites.

Another local poster there had a theory about the home becoming much more structured after the marriage to the stepmom. The idea was that <redacted> was allowed much more freedom when he had a single parent working long hours at the plant, and the home became much more disciplined with a stepmom in the picture. It could have been another source of anger if the rules changed dramatically in the last two months.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You are totally missing the point. This is not a 2nd amendment or hunting debate. This is not about you or your weapons or your beloved pets. It doesn't matter that the prairie dog was legal to shoot.

This debate is about allowing a child who is not old enough to drive or even attend middle school own and operate a 22 gauge shot gun and kill small animals with that weapon. And to have said weapon unsecured in the house.

Society's right to be protected from armed and dangerous 8-year-olds outweighs the right to hunt. The gun turned an angry child over a simple punishment into a double murder.

Fine. I never realized this site had to be about one debate and one debate only.

But I will leave the rest of you to debate whatever you wish.

 

[MeoW333]

I got the info on the stepmom driving home from the comments on one of the AZ websites.

Another local poster there had a theory about the home becoming much more structured after the marriage to the stepmom. The idea was that <redacted> was allowed much more freedom when he had a single parent working long hours at the plant, and the home became much more disciplined with a stepmom in the picture. It could have been another source of anger if the rules changed dramatically in the last two months.

That is a good theory. That would be a severe change for a young boy. My guess is the child would probably be hunting by himself a lot of the time; or at least had a lot of time himself where he was not supervised.
imo a lot of things would have to have added up for the boy to reach the breaking point.
In an article awhile back somewhere in this post i believe Chief Melton had said something like things were building up/ triggered (not sure exact words) for the boy.. i can't remember which link.
If anyone can find it..

 

[SuziQ]

I keep coming to this thread hoping for an answer to this mind boggling case.

 

[southcitymom]

I keep coming to this thread hoping for an answer to this mind boggling case.

Well never find one, IMHO - but I surely understand returning to this thread hoping for that.

 

[concernedperson]

Well never find one, IMHO - but I surely understand returning to this thread hoping for that.

I agree. We look for and seek answers and sometimes there aren't any.

We have seen nurturing parents and abusive parents and the odd child appears in both instances. There is old theory about a bad seed....lately I have been giving this more credence. May not be nurture at all but something that can't be categorized.

I know life long hunters and they are wusses when it comes to people. I know people who have never hunted and they are beasts. Neither have never killed anyone as far as I know.