Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[billandrew]

Interesting to note that in April 2012, when MS was begging DM for money, that DM threw him a hundred bucks and then told him he only had $2000 left in his bank account and $7500 in credit card debt. No idea if this was true, but he did seem to only have access to Millardair credit cards at some point. Seems like perhaps his personal funds were running dry and he was at the mercy of his father and Millardair. He may have really been cash poor and property rich at that point. Not sure he would have put the Eliminator through the company as an expense if he'd had the funds to pay for it himself.

MOO

These messages also make me view DM/MS as more of a master/slave than actual partners. MS is a willing player, but DM is the one with all the plans and the power. MS wants to make money, but he doesn't want to think about how to do it, so he's asking DM to give him direction and work. DM just seems to be leading him along. IMO DM was only interested in helping MS so that MS would be more fit to do his bidding. He literally said to MS, on Feb 29, 2012, "Take better care of yourself, you could ruin everything I have planned for you with all these injuries."

 

[Oreck]

Don't forget, he advised DM that the smaller unit would require some chopping. He must already have known the size of the subjects they had in mind.

I think they all required some.
That's not a very big door.

 

[MsSherlock]

He was helping him incinerator scout for sure. But SS will get up on the stand next week and explain that DM said he was going into the animal creation business and as evidence stands right now it is still open to MS to argue that that’s what he thought too. He suggested a dog for his “wet with bones” test, not a homeless person. I wish there was evidence on what that monstrous thing was supposed to be for. Body disposal business? Chop shop facilitator? General problem solver? It matters, because it could mean that it was a callous afterthought for accidental deaths or unplanned murders. I’m hoping things are much clearer to the jury than they are to me right now.

IMO, it looks like SS was thinking the incinerator was a legit sideline business
"
Lisa Hepfner‏
@HefCHCHNews
Nov 9
Again conversation between #Millard and Shaner July 7, 2012. I started advertising the incinerator thinking it would take awhile to get work for it. 2 jobs available in Barrie Wed aft. If you have Mark & I full days Monday & Tues could we be ready? Depends on steel supply."


https://twitter.com/HefCHCHNews

 

[Yendys]

Do we know when MS made that terrible video?

 

[canadiangirl]

Actually he told someone they burned a girl. He didn't say killed. Same with the rap. Doesnt mention the killing part.
That, among the other reasons I listed, leaves me with doubts about MS and the actual murder.

I agree with this. So far I would have doubt about MS commiting the murder. Did he help after the fact or know she was dead, absolutely. I actually don't think MS planned to kill LB or knew DM was going to kill her. I think that was all on DM. MOO

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[Oreck]

Do you have a link for these discussions? I must have missed them somewhere along the line and I'm curious. TIA

That was from back in the TB trial. ......... but sorry I don't have a link.

 

[Errrr]

That was from back in the TB trial. ......... but sorry I don't have a link.

I think it did come up in this one in the texts where they are deciding on which size to order. I recall some reporter mentioning the discussion with MS telling him about the small one wood chopping be required.

 

[billandrew]

That was from back in the TB trial. ......... but sorry I don't have a link.

The chopping message was from June 6, 2012. It came up on Day 54 of the Bosma trial when the Crown was cross-examining Smich on the stand. (The timeline is handy for this kinda stuff. :lol

 

[Oreck]

I think it did come up in this one in the texts where they are deciding on which size to order. I recall some reporter mentioning the discussion with MS telling him about the small one wood chopping be required.

Wood was code for would.

 

[Grey-St]

Perhaps, but I think more it's because someone over 18 has a right to do what they want and unless there is a body or evidence of foul play, LE are too busy to chase after every missing person. Even her parents suspected she was away on a trip.

I completely understand your reasoning here, but in this specific case I’d have to disagree. Yes, in the very early stages it was suspected she could be on a trip. But as time went on, concern started to grow. Her phone records, financial statements, and social media all show she fell off the face of the planet, went silent and could be in a great deal of trouble. SL and her family were forthcoming with her mental health troubles and her presumed involvement in the sex trade. Does that mean she shouldn’t be looked for and her disappearance shouldn’t be investigated? In my opinion, this reeks of predudice/discrimination from the Toronto police. It may have been too late for Laura, but if the police had given a damn, and this investigation took place a year earlier as it should have, two lives could have been saved.

 

[Grey-St]

LB told people that she was going on a trip - for one week. She dropped off the grid on 4 July and by 14 July SL reported her missing. She was suppose to be back, and being away on a trip does not prevent anyone from using their fb, texting etc - something LB did not do in that 10 day period.

Imo Toronto Police let LB and her family/friends down - too busy doesn't fly imo. It was too late on 14 July of course to save LB, however a small effort to look for her would have shown she had disappeared from the life she knew up to the evening of 3 July 2012 and that something was very wrong.

DM left Canada for a trip many times - what would his parents and or LE have done if he didn't resurface 7 or more days after he was due back? The question is rhetorical btw.

Exactly my point! My apologies for missing this, I hadn’t gotten to it yet.

Furthermore, the exact same thing happened with TB. He went on a test drive and was due back that night. When he didn’t return and concern and worry set in, he was reported missing. It was taken SERIOUSLY, in my opinion, because the police deemed him a stable and secure family man. His disappearance was interpreted as out of character. Well guess what, it was out of character for Laura too, especially with the evidence SL and family had already gathered. Do we see the difference in how both cases were treated?

My heart truly breaks.

 

[Errrr]

Wood was code for would.

OH, I thought he was just an idiot.

 

[Kamille]

These messages also make me view DM/MS as more of a master/slave than actual partners. MS is a willing player, but DM is the one with all the plans and the power. MS wants to make money, but he doesn't want to think about how to do it, so he's asking DM to give him direction and work. DM just seems to be leading him along. IMO DM was only interested in helping MS so that MS would be more fit to do his bidding. He literally said to MS, on Feb 29, 2012, "Take better care of yourself, you could ruin everything I have planned for you with all these injuries."

I was seeing this too billandrew. Although I did get the feeling that MS thought he was manipulating DM with all the "love you like a brother" carp. This would have been around the time DM was playing him by pretending he was going to set him up with a big rap career. And then all the beating around the bush about needing money in April 2012 before coming right out and asking for some. DM was just toying with him. Batting him around like a cat with a mouse and treating him like a child. Probably amusing himself with his texts telling MS ways to make money, knowing full well at that time that MS was dependent on him and would do whatever he asked of him if he threw him a little cash or a gift of something once in a while...drugs, food, pay a bill, IPad etc.

I noticed he also paid an outstanding phone bill for MS in Jan 2012 and then prepaid the account until May. Just stringing him along with small amounts here and there so that MS would be indebted to him. Interesting that MS never got the benefit of the lavish trips, the jet skiing, the parties at the condo and dinners out with friends where DM picked up the tab. To DM, MS was just another lackie he could pay to do his bidding. Master and slave. Just as you've said. And how about that " we will take the world" line?

MOO

 

[Dion]

I still think this really boils down to a plan that likely MS came up with to facilitate stealing items that required an owner's involvement in. They were having trouble in 2011 finding a Dodge Ram to steal for the May 2012 race that didn't require someone giving them keys and access to. They were scoping but there was always a problem with just taking one. So someone hatched the plan, and I believe it was MS who was going the think on it but not sure who actually came up with it, to take a vehicle from a test drive. If the owner needed to be "eliminated" for the end gain, so be it. Now how best to dispose of a body. Eureka!! We'll get my lackie to build a home made incinerator. From there I think it got DM excited about the prospect of a mission to kill and incinerate a body just for the thrill of it. When the homemade one wasn't working, he wanted to look for something adequate. He put SS on that job and when SS found one, he probably really got excited. Put it on wheels, give it a generator, and I can hide it and use it at my secluded farm.

The 2012 race came and went and for whatever reason, DM did not go. Probably because of his father putting his foot down about needing him to work on the new hangar and the cost of that month long trip the previous year. So that truck stealing plan got put on the back burner but I'd imagine DM was still thinking about killing and eliminating someone. LB was an easy target and CN wanted her out of their lives. A new plan was born. But the original plan was still going to be a go for the 2013 race. Just had to eliminate the other obstacle, his father, first. And using LB for a practice run was a thrill he couldn't resist.

After that, DM talked about big missions and how he needed to make $100,000 a month to stay afloat with AM. Not sure what that plan was going to be but it's apparent that if AM knows, he's not telling. Perhaps it included stealing bigger ticket items. I do recall AM scoping for a large boat/yacht down at the lakeshore.

MOO

ETA: Even if this is correct, it's obvious that this jury can not know this. But it was eluded to in TB's trial.

I always wondered how they would steal a boat!

 

[Kamille]

I always wondered how they would steal a boat!

Man overboard! (Or not) :notgood:

 

[XFP]

The chopping message was from June 6, 2012. It came up on Day 54 of the Bosma trial when the Crown was cross-examining Smich on the stand. (The timeline is handy for this kinda stuff. :lol

Billandrew, thank you for this timeline. I urge everyone to refer to it when they are thinking things through. I find it answers many of my questions along the way.

 

[Oreck]

Wanna buy a boat?

 

[MsSherlock]

The chopping message was from June 6, 2012. It came up on Day 54 of the Bosma trial when the Crown was cross-examining Smich on the stand. (The timeline is handy for this kinda stuff. :lol

Your timeline is awesome! Thanks!!

 

[mskrisc]

Maybe somebody liked being able to reap the benefits of the package of the handicapped sticker and the appearance of a disability aid.

I believe they have to be renewed annually


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[Errrr]

I was seeing this too billandrew. Although I did get the feeling that MS thought he was manipulating DM with all the "love you like a brother" carp. This would have been around the time DM was playing him by pretending he was going to set him up with a big rap career. And then all the beating around the bush about needing money in April 2012 before coming right out and asking for some. DM was just toying with him. Batting him around like a cat with a mouse and treating him like a child. Probably amusing himself with his texts telling MS ways to make money, knowing full well at that time that MS was dependent on him and would do whatever he asked of him if he threw him a little cash or a gift of something once in a while...drugs, food, pay a bill, IPad etc.

I noticed he also paid an outstanding phone bill for MS in Jan 2012 and then prepaid the account until May. Just stringing him along with small amounts here and there so that MS would be indebted to him. Interesting that MS never got the benefit of the lavish trips, the jet skiing, the parties at the condo and dinners out with friends where DM picked up the tab. To DM, MS was just another lackie he could pay to do his bidding. Master and slave. Just as you've said. And how about that " we will take the world" line?

MOO

I think that group looked down on MS and MM, only tolerated them because of DM. I wonder if this technique of involving his friends in his escapades is how his mother could brush off his behaviour. She may have chalked up her little lambs transgressions as just being under the influence of his bad friends. The rich kid gets a break because the priveledged have no unmet wants. Those low class kids must be taking advantage of him!
MS isn't innocent though. Those two are a match made in hell.