Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[Alban]

From the Mob Reporter on YouTube: WHAT THE JURY SAW: Laura Babcock Trial — What was on Millard’s computers (4) https://youtu.be/LYJTiN3b7jg

 

[MorningStar22]

Interesting to note that in April 2012, when MS was begging DM for money, that DM threw him a hundred bucks and then told him he only had $2000 left in his bank account and $7500 in credit card debt. No idea if this was true, but he did seem to only have access to Millardair credit cards at some point. Seems like perhaps his personal funds were running dry and he was at the mercy of his father and Millardair. He may have really been cash poor and property rich at that point. Not sure he would have put the Eliminator through the company as an expense if he'd had the funds to pay for it himself.

MOO

This just struck a chord with me. If the eliminator was charged in June, maybe it took his dad a couple months to see the charge going through the books and started asking questions...

MOO. Just over here theorizing when I should be going to bed...

 

[Errrr]

The chopping message was from June 6, 2012. It came up on Day 54 of the Bosma trial when the Crown was cross-examining Smich on the stand. (The timeline is handy for this kinda stuff. :lol

Anyway, it shows MS wasn't thinking of disposing of chickens here. And why all the code talk if this was a legitimate business plan?

 

[swedie]

I figured they took pics and kept as trophies, I mentioned this during the TB trial. I'm assuming it will be the same for WM murder.

I believe there were grommets forund in the incinerator when they cleaned the remains of TB out. They also found DNA in the incinerator door of TB. I also mentioned thru TB trial that I thought they also found LB's DNA on the door as well. Besides the pictures that Rogers couldn't say for sure if human or deer, I think DNA on the door will be what the crown is going to win the case on. Crossing fingers on that one!

We also seen pics with alot of blood staining in the box of the red Dodge, wonder if this will be brought in for LB as nothing much came out of all that blood staining for TB case. Maybe from mattress as we seen what appeared to be LB in a tarp at DM's home. There wasabsolutely NO that much blood was from over spray of water mixing with blood during the TB clean up.

From the texts from AM and DM on the sex talk "I told you how to make her *advertiser censored*" and "what'd you do?" With LB's missing person ad attached to text. Also I believe I read where LB liked it rough, I'm going to say that DM killed LB during sex act and maybe accidentally but was his plan to murder her anyways (going to hurt her then make her go away)

I've thought they all (CN, MM, AM, SS) knew something from the go of TB trial. People argued me that they didn't. Kinda looking like they all knew!

MOO

My apologies if someone has already addressed some of these things already as I'm just starting to read today's posts. From you post above this one, where I mentioned that perhaps the mattress was burned in the field...interesting the one burnt area is rectangular shaped. I suspect a forensic specialist will be called to address this theory I have...we'll just have to wait and see. As for anything growing over those burnt areas, if nothing was planted, nothing will grow but weeds. And if DM used a flammable liquid it could have deterred anything from growing in those burnt areas. If someone didn't rototill those burnt areas under, they would still be there today, looking about the same but faded. My in-laws have property in the country and have burn areas they used years ago but are still visible.

As for the grommets, they were found in one of these burnt areas, not in the incinerator with TB's remains.

The blood stains weren't found in DM's red Dodge. They were found in TB's Ram.

LH's video with evidence of the burnt area, TB's truck etc. dated March 3/16. HTH and MOO
http://www.chch.com/tim-bosma-day-19/

 

[Errrr]

This just struck a chord with me. If the eliminator was charged in June, maybe it took his dad a couple months to see the charge going through the books and started asking questions...

MOO. Just over here theorizing when I should be going to bed...

Maybe he planned to tap his dad before the bill arrived?
......or.......maybe had something going with the accountant?

 

[mskrisc]

This may not be a popular opinion, but here goes... (and of course all MOO):

I know there is plenty of evidence to come, however my preliminary opinion is that I'm finding it hard to reconcile MS being a part of the actual murder of LB (again, *so far*).

I'm hung up on his lyrics "last time I saw her was outside the home" (surely they wouldn't have killed her outside?) and the witness "garage testimony" that he said "we burned a girl and dumped her in the lake". To me this implies that he was definitely involved in the incineration and remains/phone disposal, but not the actual killing.

It also seems like DM was going out of his way to set MS up to take the fall - having him pose for Eliminator photos, while ensuring pics of himself were innocuous (standing on bucket with plane close to the same time as the tarp pic - taken at separate locations), giving MS the red bag and the iPad. I also don't think it's implausible that DM himself named the iPad "Mark's iPad" while setting it up prior to giving it to him. After all, it had DM's iTunes info of which the password MS was initially not privy to.

This isn't to say MS didn't have a hand in planning...though I don't feel we've seen evidence to support that just yet.

Helping DM obtain firearms could even be argued that his intention was to commit armed robberies (missions) but not murder.

Not saying he's a good guy by any stretch, but I'm interested to see what additional info may be presented about phone locations at the time of the murder and any other evidence the Crown may present against MS. If I were the jury, *at this point*, I don't think I'd feel confident convicting MS of M1.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

At this point in time, I’d have to agree. Pings put them all in the same house, but if he lived in the basement with MM that’s a given. Hmm! Maybe MM’s testimony next week will shed some light on this? Or Maybe LE is hoping he’ll rat DM out in his own defence? If he’s charged with M1 , can the jury find him guilty of Accessory ?


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[Lupy]

From the Mob Reporter on YouTube..What the jury saw: [video=youtube;46QwzJZulf4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=27&v=46QwzJZulf4[/video]

@ 4:47 on the video, can anyone tell me what you see in the .jpg's on that page? TIA

 

[Grey-St]

I was seeing this too billandrew. Although I did get the feeling that MS thought he was manipulating DM with all the "love you like a brother" carp. This would have been around the time DM was playing him by pretending he was going to set him up with a big rap career. And then all the beating around the bush about needing money in April 2012 before coming right out and asking for some. DM was just toying with him. Batting him around like a cat with a mouse and treating him like a child. Probably amusing himself with his texts telling MS ways to make money, knowing full well at that time that MS was dependent on him and would do whatever he asked of him if he threw him a little cash or a gift of something once in a while...drugs, food, pay a bill, IPad etc.

I noticed he also paid an outstanding phone bill for MS in Jan 2012 and then prepaid the account until May. Just stringing him along with small amounts here and there so that MS would be indebted to him. Interesting that MS never got the benefit of the lavish trips, the jet skiing, the parties at the condo and dinners out with friends where DM picked up the tab. To DM, MS was just another lackie he could pay to do his bidding. Master and slave. Just as you've said. And how about that " we will take the world" line?

MOO

I find this post so intriguing and I’ll tell you why: I used to work with human trafficking victims, mainly young women who are tricked or forced to work in the sex trade by another person. The mentality that you have explain above is EXACTLY how pimps operate. They meet some of your basic needs (such as paying a view bills, offering you a place to stay, supplying you drugs, giving you love and affection) so that you feel indebted to them and willing to do anything to pay them back. Then they start to get you do certain thing for them, and you oblige. They start making you promises for the future (a rap career? “Taking over the world”?) It’s complete manipulation and they target vulnerable individuals. I believe MS was vulnerable and probably did love DM in a strange way as he stated. I don’t think he had the greatest upbringing, or had parents who were present. He felt taken care of and supported with DM and got sucked into a really ****ed up world, fast. As did all of DMs minions. NONE of this means MS isn’t guilty, and it’s my opinion only, but they should both be convicted of M1(even if some of the evidence is unclear at the moment).

Just some of my personal insight into a dark and twisted world of two criminals and the criminal mind of DM.

 

[MorningStar22]

Maybe he planned to tap his dad before the bill arrived?
......or.......maybe had something going with the accountant?

I am thinking more about WM motive. But that’s for another thread I guess.

 

[MorningStar22]

From the Mob Reporter on YouTube: WHAT THE JURY SAW: Laura Babcock Trial — What was on Millard’s computers (4) https://youtu.be/LYJTiN3b7jg

This was hard for me to go through. So much love to Laura’s family and friends.

Sheds some light on the tweets about AM’s cell phone and DM/CN snarkiness over their impression of LB being a liar.

 

[MorningStar22]

From the Mob Reporter on YouTube..What the jury saw: [video=youtube;46QwzJZulf4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=27&v=46QwzJZulf4[/video]

@ 4:47 on the video, can anyone tell me what you see in the .jpg's on that page? TIA

SS’s homebuilt incinerator
A text message screenshot
Someone laying by a pool
Same person laying differently
A dog sleeping with a remote

...

 

[Jealoushe]

How long after a spill does luminol work for?
I suppose it depends on how the spill was stored
Inside or out in the weather.
Does anyone here know?

Years and years.... long time.

 

[winter2017]

Grey - St, I agree with you it is the way predators act they groom the person first. Your comparison to pimps is I am sure correct. I think DM did it to Laura too because he gave her drugs like ecstasy at her birthday party that she got rid of . His method was the same with Laura and when she became a liability to him then he wanted to permanently get rid of her.

<modsnip>

I in no way want to ever interact with anyone closely tied to the accused, I consider DM and MS in the same league as Paul Barnardo, but what is more disturbing about MS and DM is how many protected them. By protecting these they actually allowed more murders to take place. If the police had been given more info about Laura and her ties to DM it probably would have caused the police to carefully look at DM. Instead many people knew things and protected DM and MS.

 

[Oreck]

At this point in time, I&#8217;d have to agree. Pings put them all in the same house, but if he lived in the basement with MM that&#8217;s a given. Hmm! Maybe MM&#8217;s testimony next week will shed some light on this? Or Maybe LE is hoping he&#8217;ll rat DM out in his own defence? If he&#8217;s charged with M1 , can the jury find him guilty of Accessory ?



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Crown misled us when they insinuated that the pings indicated the same house,
The pings were off the same tower. So that only means they were in the same part of town within 5 miles. Or 10.
MS's lawyer should have jumped all over this. I don't think he's the sharpest.
I don't have an answer to your last ? .

 

[matou]

The Mob Reporter: WHAT THE JURY SAW: Laura Babcock Trial &#8212; What was on Millard&#8217;s computers: 5

[video=youtube;GrcMNKZnyRQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrcMNKZnyRQ[/video]

 

[lclabtech]

Crown misled us when they insinuated that the pings indicated the same house,
The pings were off the same tower. So that only means they were in the same part of town within 5 miles. Or 10.
MS's lawyer should have jumped all over this. I don't think he's the sharpest.
I don't have an answer to your last ? .

Can anyone recap what the Crown witness actually said?

Because 5-10 miles seems way off.

Phones pinging off the same tower in the Toronto area would strike me as significant, IMO. I’m a 911 dispatcher in the area. If I were to get a 911 call on a cell phone in the 5 Maple Gate Area, I can see a) an estimated location with a suggested radius and b) the cell phone tower it’s coming from. It’d be extremely unusual to see a tower that far away based on my experience.

 

[Kamille]

Poor billandrew. AH, The Mob Reporter is making a lot of work for him tonight. LOL But it's fascinating to read this stuff. And yes, it appears we have clarification about the AM "IPod". It seems that LB had an old IPhone of AM's (or a new one that he shut down when it disappeared) that she had restored and used as an IPod for herself. She had a Blackberry so she didn't have this option with her phone. She obviously set up the phone with her own ITunes account and used it to purchase music.

It also appears that DM discovered this phone and believed it to be AM's missing phone. Laura claimed that her father found it in a park, brought it home and she restored it. Looks like DM went to see LB and stole it back. LOL Turned out it was AM's missing phone because DM knew a thing or two about serial numbers. (And he gave MS the IPad why?). DM and CN obviously believed she took it from the house and that she lied.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Crown misled us when they insinuated that the pings indicated the same house,
The pings were off the same tower. So that only means they were in the same part of town within 5 miles. Or 10.
MS's lawyer should have jumped all over this. I don't think he's the sharpest.
I don't have an answer to your last ? .

Where on earth would MS be overnight within 5 miles of DM's house? :waitasec:

 

[MorningStar22]

Poor billandrew. AH, The Mob Reporter is making a lot of work for him tonight. LOL But it's fascinating to read this stuff. And yes, it appears we have clarification about the AM "IPod". It seems that LB had an old IPhone of AM's (or a new one that he shut down when it disappeared) that she had restored and used as an IPod for herself. She had a Blackberry so she didn't have this option with her phone. She obviously set up the phone with her own ITunes account and used it to purchase music.

It also appears that DM discovered this phone and believed it to be AM's missing phone. Laura claimed that her father found it in a park, brought it home and she restored it. Looks like DM went to see LB and stole it back. LOL Turned out it was AM's missing phone because DM knew a thing or two about serial numbers. (And he gave MS the IPad why?). DM and CN obviously believed she took it from the house and that she lied.

MOO

About the iPad serial number - totally agree. Seems so odd that it landed in MS’ name.

Also MS’ texts about the red bag and the iPad seem out of character, to me at least, based on his usual gangsta style. I would be interested in the full context of all that...

Also, why would Iisho be hanging out at his house for an undetermined long period of time, as stated in MS/DM texts from AH’s most recent video?

 

[Woodland]

I consider DM and MS in the same league as Paul Barnardo, but what is more disturbing about MS and DM is how many protected them. By protecting these they actually allowed more murders to take place. If the police had been given more info about Laura and her ties to DM it probably would have caused the police to carefully look at DM. Instead many people knew things and protected DM and MS.

Snipped and bolded by me - Toronto Police were given exactly what they needed to begin investigating LB's disappearance - her last phone bill showing her last 8 contacts were to DM. TPS refused to take the phone bill and dropped the subject of LB between July 2012 and May 2013. TPS could have checked with her bank etc during this time to see if she was active somewhere - but they didn't.

It wasn't DM's 'friends' protecting him during this time regarding LB's disappearance - it was Toronto Police. No questions result in no answers. It must be painful for LB's family and friends to read/watch people misinterpret and/or not remember what the facts are.