Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[deugirtni]

Crown misled us when they insinuated that the pings indicated the same house,
The pings were off the same tower. So that only means they were in the same part of town within 5 miles. Or 10.
MS's lawyer should have jumped all over this. I don't think he's the sharpest.
I don't have an answer to your last ? .

Dungey made that point earlier in this trial. I'm sure it will be part of his closing arguments.

 

[JuneBug67]

It's also possible DM gave it to her and he's lying about all these stories. He's been known to fabricate to cover his involvement with LB. we have never heard LBs take on this phone, just that she asked DM if she could keep it.

We do see her claim that her father found it in a park in her text messages. It’s not terribly believable. And Millard is clearly investigating in his text messages with her as well.

 

[JuneBug67]

Is anybody clear on why we don’t seem to have cellphone ping data between 7:30 pm on the 3rd and mid morning of the 4th? Or have I misunderstood the evidence?

 

[Errrr]

Cellphone towers have different coverage ranges depending on where they are located. The denser the population, the smaller the physical range they cover.

A tower in an urban area is not going to be transmitting for users 5-10 miles away let alone 20. This is why 911 responders use them to get location information. In contrast, at the farm, calls and texts could be pinging a tower more than 30 miles away.

Of course, a tower ping can't put you in a given residence. Millard, Smich and Babcock could all have been at different houses that pinged that same Etobicoke tower on the day she vanished. Or maybe they all just left their phones in a field by the tower and went to a movie downtown.

Or, like you said, maybe Laura just happened to be with a client a few houses away from Millard's residence. Of course, there's no record of her calling that client and there is a record of her calling Millard, which is bit of a problem for that theory.

Then, there's also the fact that Millard's and Babcock's phones pinged a tower near Keele subway station shortly before pinging the tower near his house. And even more of a coincidence that the next day all three phones pinged towers heading to Oakville.

But if it was all just a giant coincidence, I'm sure the defence will call witnesses to explain it and tell us about where the defendants really were. Otherwise the location of the tower pings do corroborate the Crown's theory. Just like how the pings corroborated Laura's friends' stories about where she went before she disappeared.

Don't phones ping multiple towers allowing them to triangulate locations?

 

[Woodland]

You got it! DM groomed, manipulated and then exploited everyone in his life. He kept people around for the very purpose of benefiting himself. None of his relationships (in love, friendship or business) were organic in any way. Didn’t he even write a note about Laura stating “what does she have to offer me?”

His minions were under his control and did their best to protect him (and also protect themselves). I’m not saying this however as an excuse for their behavior. Eventually your moral compass should kick in, and you’re supposed to then do the right thing.

As for the police, I think you’re misunderstanding some of the facts. They were giving a ton of information about Laura’s disappearance from SL and her family. They pretty much chose to not investigate further for their own biased reasons (IMO). This is the main reason DM got away with what he did for so long, and more murders took place.

However, I do remember a text from DM to MS stating he needed to “call the police back”. Does anyone remember when this occurred and can anyone speculate what it may have been about?

Here's the tweet Grey-St - Day 13, page 14, post #197 - provided by Velma.

Now messages between Millard and Smich from Oct. 13.

Smich to Millard "You still gotta keep everything on the low. Cuz ppl know too much. We r not getting anything anymore wen theres ppl around. Unless its just for pick up. Everything else has got to stay low."
by Adam Carter 12:41 PM

Another message, from Millard to Smich: some people already know too much, can't talk about that real life sh_t."
by Adam Carter 12:42 PM

That message is from Nov. 26.
by Adam Carter 12:42 PM

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
Now text messages between #Millard and #Smich Oct 13, 2012. "You still gotta keep everything on the low. Cuz ppl kno too much." #LauraBabcock

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
Nov 26, 2012, "Some people already know too much, can't talk about that real life ****." #Millard #Smich

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews 13s13 seconds ago
Nov 16, 2012. #Smich and #Millard. "I left some thinkgs in the van. Ipad... I'll link you back after I'm done callin the police." #LauraBabcock

I'm getting two different dates for the death of Wayne Millard - 29 and 30 Nov 2012. Not sure which one is correct.

I wondered at the time if DM was setting the stage for a near future event.

 

[Errrr]

We do see her claim that her father found it in a park in her text messages. It’s not terribly believable. And Millard is clearly investigating in his text messages with her as well.

Really! I didn't see that! I wonder if he dropped it while spying on her for DM? Wouldn't that be funny!

 

[ABro]

Don't phones ping multiple towers allowing them to triangulate locations?

I have no idea what you mean here when you say "triangulate locations." No one has claimed that you can pinpoint the exact location someone or their phone is at with cellphone pings.

As a rule, phones ping the tower nearest to them except in a few situations: if there's an object that blocks the closest tower, if the weather interferes with the closest tower, if the closest tower is overloaded. There may also be other reasons that I'm not aware of.

The point is this is not rocket science or mysterious magic. It's very simple and that's why this tool is often used at trials for corroborating stories and showing the general location of phones.

ETA: OK, I think you might have been asking if a call or text could be transmitted by multiple towers and the answer is no. Tower selection -- or what you seem to be calling triangulation -- occurs before transmission. The network has the capacity to send a call to multiple towers but it selects just one tower to transmit the call. Or colloquially, the call pings one tower. If you look at the telcom reports, they show just one tower per call/text.

 

[JuneBug67]

Didn’t DM claim/report a break in at Maple Gate? Wasn’t there some inference through the TB trial that one or more of the handguns was stolen in that claimed event? I mean this in reference to the call to police.

 

[Errrr]

DM hjad a long history of doing troublesome things. He was already on the police radar because they had a record of his tattoo , the tattoo allowed Igor to identify him to the police. He had bothered neighbours I don't have the info but read that he was bothering neighbours , was harassing them, and would retaliate. The signs were there that he was not a nice person. All the same people many testified at first trial knew all this about him.
To become worse and worse and get into more criminal activity is not a surprise.
I am confused about something. they said MS told his gf to leave the garage when he showed some teenagers the rap song about killing someone. Then another video now has appeared where he sang the rap song with MM present, so I don't get it. There are a lot of suspicious things and inconsistencies that don't add up and it means that a lot of lying is going on.
Someone on here said the police messed up and I have said that, but that is before I knew all these people knew things by texts where DM is pretty much saying he is going to harm someone and then the very person he threatens to harm in texts , disappears, ummm, how smart do you have to be to them figure it out that he likely did harm to her. Yet none of them went to the police with info about the texts by him or the rap song, except one teenager, and it looked like that was ignored. MM heard the rap song in the basement of DM s father house, and I am sure since she was around MS all the time something was said about the disappearance of Laura, and that Laura was known very well by DM. Is she really that stupid that she did not think, Ummm, the rap song about killing someone + DM knew Laura = maybe contacting the police? I don't think she was that stupid, it was a deliberate choice not to provide information to the police. That is my opinion.
Then people are saying now what an honest person she was at the last trial, really, well I think she could have figured out with the rap song by MS that something was up and it was all over the news about Laura disappearance.

Have you seen his other videos? Do you think they are snuff movies or just replicating Dexter? MM was sent out after the rap videos when MS wanted to tell the kids he was a murderer. I think MM is/was quite vapid and mostly focused on getting high.

 

[Grey-St]

Dungey made that point earlier in this trial. I'm sure it will be part of his closing arguments.

I agree that it will certainly be part of the defense.

But as we know, it’s about all of the evidence collectively. As Ann B stated earlier, sure, all of this information involving the cell phone pings could be some big coincidence. But it’s about what’s *most* likely. I can only hope that the jury understands this and that they will be instructed appropriately.

 

[AFlyOnTheWall]

I thought AM was already out west when DM asked him to keep him in the know about LB’s whereabouts?

 

[billandrew]

Is anybody clear on why we don’t seem to have cellphone ping data between 7:30 pm on the 3rd and mid morning of the 4th? Or have I misunderstood the evidence?

All that I've seen reported by MSM is broad time ranges and high level summaries of the data. I'd love to see the detailed reports and presentations to answer some questions I have, such as:

• When exactly did Millard pick up Babcock from Kipling Station? I only see it reported as "the afternoon" on July 3.
• Where was Millard at 7:30pm when he told Smich he was "on a mission, back in 1 hr"?
• What time was the "I rolled my first spliff" message sent on July 4?
• Who plugged LB's iPad into DM's computer at 10:43am, if DM's and LB's phones were pinging along the QEW around that time, and LB's phone last pinged near Indian Grove in Mississauga at 11am?
• When did Millard actually tell Schlatman he was going to the hangar? (It was reported as 1am on July 4, but it would seem to make more sense if it was 1pm).

 

[XFP]

Don't phones ping multiple towers allowing them to triangulate locations?

I'm pretty sure cell tower triangulation to determine location was before GPS - old tech.

 

[paris_paris]

I get what you're saying about those pics Lupy. They struck me right away too. First the incinerator and then pictures of a woman lying on the ground in two different positions and then a picture of a dog lying down. Does seem weird. Almost like checking for measurements IYKWIM.

MOO

But they were sent to different people on different days. Different months even.

 

[winter2017]

Errr, you got that right about MM, nailed it. I can't wait for her testimony , should at least if nothing else be entertainment.

 

[lclabtech]

I live in a small city of 12,000 and we have one (ugly) tower in the center of town.
The Roger's man that testified said a cell phone has a range of 20 miles.

This isn’t the case in Etobicoke, I assure you.

This website appears to show the towers.

https://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/cancellsites.html

The closest Rogers tower is within ~400 meters of Millard’s house.

There appear to be four more Rogers towers within 1200 meters (less than 1 mile).

The red towers are Rogers.

 

[Errrr]

Really! I didn't see that! I wonder if he dropped it while spying on her for DM? Wouldn't that be funny!

Sorry, just noticed he lost that in 2011. Maybe lurking outside her house? He really likes her.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Can anyone recap what the Crown witness actually said?

Because 5-10 miles seems way off.

Phones pinging off the same tower in the Toronto area would strike me as significant, IMO. I’m a 911 dispatcher in the area. If I were to get a 911 call on a cell phone in the 5 Maple Gate Area, I can see a) an estimated location with a suggested radius and b) the cell phone tower it’s coming from. It’d be extremely unusual to see a tower that far away based on my experience.

The phone connected with a cell site at 210 Markland Drive in Etobicoke — approximately 400 metres as the crow flies from Dellen Millard's home at 5 Maple Gate Court.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/laura-babcock-murder-trial-cellphone-090000904.html

 

[lclabtech]

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/laura-babcock-murder-trial-cellphone-090000904.html

Thanks! I missed that. And we can see that is very significant because there are 3 other Rogers towers very closeby.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I have no idea what you mean here when you say "triangulate locations." No one has claimed that you can pinpoint the exact location someone or their phone is at with cellphone pings.how just one tower per call/text.

Global Positioning System (GPS) or Triangulation Capability

With Enhanced 9-1-1, wireless carriers use Global Positioning System (GPS) and/or Triangulation technology to identify a 9-1-1 caller’s location (generally within 50 to 300 meters of the cellphone). The emergency call and the caller’s location are automatically transmitted to a 9-1-1 call centre serving that area.

Not all cellphones have GPS capability. To get more information on a cellphone’s capabilities, check your manual or ask your wireless service provider. GPS capability uses signals from satellites to determine a cellphone’s location.

If your cellphone does not have GPS capability, wireless carriers can also use triangulation technology, which locates the caller by measuring the cellphone signal’s distance from nearby cellphone towers.

The location information, as determined by either GPS and/or triangulation, will be provided to the 9-1-1 operator if you are using either a cellphone with pre-paid minutes or a wireless service plan. If you have a cellphone but are not subscribed to any service, you can still dial 9-1-1 in an emergency and receive basic wireless 9-1-1 service.

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/phone/911/can.htm