Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #5

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If you remove some of the noise, the ruthless sinister progression emerges. MOO

May 4 2:24 pm Millard texts Michalski: "If you could keep me updated on where Laura goes out to, that'd be of use to me."
May 4 - Millard texts Smich: "let's get to work, got some empires to build."
May 16 10:53 am Millard texts Schlatman: "Soon I'm going to want you to put together a home made incinerator."

May 4 - Millard texts Smich: "let's get to work, got some empires to build “.
May 4 - Millard texts Smich: "Part a) getting you a base & me a dodge 3500."

Those messages go together and were evidence at the Bosma trial, not this one. Removing the noise too arbitrarily doesn’t clarify things, it risks creating a completely misleading narrative.
 
May 4 - Millard texts Smich: "let's get to work, got some empires to build “.
May 4 - Millard texts Smich: "Part a) getting you a base & me a dodge 3500."

Those messages go together and were evidence at the Bosma trial, not this one. Removing the noise too arbitrarily doesn’t clarify things, it risks creating a completely misleading narrative.

Yes it does, thanks. DM and MS were most likely calculating the $$$ DM would save burning garbage, and the $$$ MS would make burning it. /s MOO
 
I noticed something a little jarring in the text messages. 8 days before SS noticed the rotting smell he attributed to an “incomplete burn”, DM and MS had a clearly articulated plan to pursue a Dodge 3500 the next day. I wonder if we’ll ever really know the extent of the destruction these two actually wrought.
 
Yes it does, thanks. DM and MS were most likely calculating the $$$ DM would save burning garbage, and the $$$ MS would make burning it. /s MOO

I just don’t think linking an alleged plan to murder Laura to empire building that is itself clearly linked to the acquisition of property is the best line of reasoning.
 
I just don’t think linking an alleged plan to murder Laura to empire building that is itself clearly linked to the acquisition of property is the best line of reasoning.

Add a little "How ruthless are you willing to be to make $$?" into the mix, and I do. Laura was the first obstacle, and a great test subject for two more murders for $$ gain in less than a year. One being that 3500. MOO
 
Add a little "How ruthless are you willing to be to make $$?" into the mix, and I do. Laura was the first obstacle, and a great test subject for two more murders for $$ gain in less than a year. One being that 3500. MOO
I would include armed robbery in the category of "ruthless"; also killing LB would in no way help with "building an empire". JMO.

My gut is telling me that killing Laura was not specifically planned, but perhaps how to handle such a situation WAS. Same with Tim. I believe Tim was an armed robbery gone wrong, but I am struggling to find a catalyst for Laura. The robbery theory isn't ridiculous.

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Add a little "How ruthless are you willing to be to make $$?" into the mix, and I do. Laura was the first obstacle, and a great test subject for two more murders for $$ gain in less than a year. MOO

I think we basically agree. The ruthlessness, guns, trucks, money, empire building and incinerator seem to be a clear line of progression. I’m just not so confident that Laura fits on that particular line.
 
I would include armed robbery in the category of "ruthless"; also killing LB would in no way help with "building an empire". JMO.

My gut is telling me that killing Laura was not specifically planned, but perhaps how to handle such a situation WAS. Same with Tim. I believe Tim was an armed robbery gone wrong, but I am struggling to find a catalyst for Laura. The robbery theory isn't ridiculous.

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It is possible that at some point Laura became an attractive test subject. Perhaps that happened if she became an attractive robbery suspect after DM’s extended conversation with her on July 1. If she told him about her lucrative escorting and current homelessness I can see his brain starting to tick in that direction if it hadn’t already as most believe.

But other than that I agree completely. The incinerator was not conceived for any particular individual, but as a tool to facilitate a ruthless criminal life generally.
 
Without knowing what was taking place within Millard family (WM and DM) from the time they started the new hangar, it's hard to know if it had an impact on DM starting spiral into the world of violence. He purchased the PPK in February 2012 according to reports. He was on courses for the business shortly after, and seemed focused on taking "missions" to the next level by March 2012. Was there a cash flow problem getting the hangar off the ground? Was his other ventures (real estate), which he acknowledged only broke even causing him grief? He was even talking about selling booze to kids as a business venture.

MS was also experiencing financial trouble around that same time, and counting on DM for odd jobs was becoming less reliable according to texts.

Let's not forget that DM texted MJW in Feb 2012 'Millard texts Jackson: "by the time I let her go, she'll be a dirty girl."' Not the sort of thing a robber says about a gun in my opinion.

He was already in possession of one gun when he told CN he would remove Laura from their lives. MS was in need of money, and DM most likely saw that as an opportunity to recruit a partner. Shortly after that "weekend talk", MS showed a whole new interest in the garbage incineration business. Even searching commercial versions when they realized that the homemade version didn't work for their intended purpose.

The fact that LB was murdered and incinerated, and MS wrote a RAP the night she was cremated, and boasted about it to others was just him bragging to youngsters to look "bad", I have a bridge for sale.


I have no doubt DM planned to use the gun as early as Feb 2012, and MS knew his intent after that "next level" talk in the titty bar, and agreed to be a partner. MOO
 
It is possible that at some point Laura became an attractive test subject. Perhaps that happened if she became an attractive robbery suspect after DM’s extended conversation with her on July 1. If she told him about her lucrative escorting and current homelessness I can see his brain starting to tick in that direction if it hadn’t already as most believe.

But other than that I agree completely. The incinerator was not conceived for any particular individual, but as a tool to facilitate a ruthless criminal life generally.

How plausible is it that Laura was a risk, (in some way that I haven't entirely articulated yet), to his criminal empire building? Her personal items and money in hand simply being a bonus?

Just thinking out loud and looking for the opinion of others here.
 
If MS testifies, I wonder if he’s setting himself up for a perjury charge from the Bosma trial regarding thinking the homemade incinerator was for garbage. He won’t get away with that in this trial, and at the very least you’d expect the Crown to hit him with prior inconsistent testimony to demonstrate he has already lied on the stand. However, I wonder too how that is complicated by any inadmissibility of his prior charge and conviction.
 
How plausible is it that Laura was a risk, (in some way that I haven't entirely articulated yet), to his criminal empire building? Her personal items and money in hand simply being a bonus?

Just thinking out loud and looking for the opinion of others here.

I think we are entering the zone again. The zone where we are looking for a reason that makes sense to normal folks. Many of us struggled to explain TB's unnecessary death. Some tried to say it was a robbery gone wrong. But those close to TB have repeatedly said Tim would of not struggled over a truck. At some point we need to realize that Robert Burns was making a very strong point; “I don't know what goes on in your head." MOO
 
How plausible is it that Laura was a risk, (in some way that I haven't entirely articulated yet), to his criminal empire building? Her personal items and money in hand simply being a bonus?

Just thinking out loud and looking for the opinion of others here.

I don't think that Laura was a risk to his empire building. I'm not seeing that at all.

I think the Crown is correct in it's assertion that Laura was a problem for DM in his ongoing relationship and pursuit of CN.

Occam's Razor. As much as DM wants us to believe that he wasn't enamoured with CN the truth is, that he was. CN was hot for DM as well. Laura was unhinged, unbalanced and was causing grief for DM. The reality is, Laura and CN bickering put DM in the middle. And BTW, he put himself there because he continued to hook up with Laura all during his relationship with CN.

He needed to get rid of her. She was a liability for him. Make no mistake...he didn't get rid of her for CN. He got rid of her for him. DM is all about himself. She had outgrown her usefulness. He used her just like he used many other women. It was CN he wanted. Laura had to go and she wouldn't go on her own.

MOO
 
I think we are entering the zone again. The zone where we are looking for a reason that makes sense to normal folks. Many of us struggled to explain TB's unnecessary death. Some tried to say it was a robbery gone wrong. But those close to TB have repeatedly said Tim would of not struggled over a truck. At some point we need to realize that Robert Burns was making a very strong point; “I don't know what goes on in your head." MOO

Yes, you are probably right. I suppose the most reasonable explanation is that he's a murderous psychopath. He could have kicked Tim out of the car. He could have blocked Laura's number. He made the decision to murder, and it's something that we'll never be able to fully make sense of.

I think it's been said before, but forensic psychologists would have a field day with DM.
 
I don't think that Laura was a risk to his empire building. I'm not seeing that at all.

I think the Crown is correct in it's assertion that Laura was a problem for DM in his ongoing relationship and pursuit of CN.

Occam's Razor. As much as DM wants us to believe that he wasn't enamoured with CN the truth is, that he was. CN was hot for DM as well. Laura was unhinged, unbalanced and was causing grief for DM. The reality is, Laura and CN bickering put DM in the middle. And BTW, he put himself there because he continued to hook up with Laura all during his relationship with CN.

He needed to get rid of her. She was a liability for him. Make no mistake...he didn't get rid of her for CN. He got rid of her for him. DM is all about himself. She had outgrown her usefulness. He used her just like he used many other women. It was CN he wanted. Laura had to go and she wouldn't go on her own.

MOO

Why didn't he just get rid of CN?
 
Why didn't he just get rid of CN?

The warm and fuzzy feelings they shared of hurting people and making them disappear? That, and the superb fellatio. :thinking:
 
Why didn't he just get rid of CN?
Get rid of:
A) calculating gf that lives with parents
Or
B) mentally unstable acquaintance that is homeless, and comes with cash.

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I wonder about this: DM and CN were fighting or broken up because CN had texted a sex invite to Boris. What if DM slept with LB as a means of "getting back" at CN. Then realized that if CN ever found out he'd never have a chance at getting back with her. He knew LB had boasted to CN before about sleeping with him, and he feared that if he didn't get rid of her, his relationship was doomed.
 
What is such justice is the women DM professed to love is the one by keeping letters helped convict him in first trial and looks like will assist to convict him in this one. KARMA BABY.
The warm and fuzzy feelings they shared of hurting people and making them disappear? That, and the superb fellatio. :thinking:
 
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