Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #5

[Tealgrove]

Ah, here it is:

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...amily-press-barred-from-pretrial-motions.html

That's it! Thank you.

 

[Bluepopsicle]

Can we please get over the obsession with CN. She spent 4 months in jail for a charge that was at best, nearly impossible to prove. Google her name, unless she develops a cure for cancer, these trials will follow her for the rest of her life.

A permanently damaged reputation is enough punishment for me.

That’s not even close to enough justice imo. She is free, free to travel, free to get an education, free to party, live a life. 4 months is a joke. That”s not justice imo, that’s like a slap in the face to anyone who cares about justice.

 

[MsSherlock]

A lot of projection there.

DM didn’t give a rip about any of the ladies in his harem.

IMO, you're correct- DM didn't give a care about any woman, however, "Kinks" proved herself to be different; she was a manipulating player as well-calling Boris in for a little fling just a week or so before DM killed LB . She told DM how warm and fuzzy it made her feel when he talked about hurting LB and making the "herpes" go away for good. She texts DM "Have fun doing big things" around 10 pm the night he murdered LB. IMHO, CN will just pull a KH and change her name- she'll disappear into a new identity. I can't say that she was just a young woman in love with a bad guy. MOO

 

[Grey-St]

Ah, here it is:

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...amily-press-barred-from-pretrial-motions.html

Thank you! This is interesting and suspicious.

Glithero will be the trial judge for this case.

Except he didn't end up being the trial judge for the TB case... Was he recused? Will we ever find out?

 

[dar107]

Can we please get over the obsession with CN. She spent 4 months in jail for a charge that was at best, nearly impossible to prove. Google her name, unless she develops a cure for cancer, these trials will follow her for the rest of her life.

A permanently damaged reputation is enough punishment for me.

A permanently damaged reputation is enough punishment for me.

That’s not even close to enough justice imo. She is free, free to travel, free to get an education, free to party, live a life. 4 months is a joke. That”s not justice imo, that’s like a slap in the face to anyone who cares about justice.

Agreed! She got off way to easily. She does not seem bothered by her damaged rep either, seems to like the limelight. She fed the monster IMO and was excited by it. Also I don't see anyone obsessed here, she is the topic of the moment as we discuss the trial, seeing as the crown closed yesterday with her bedroom search and the letters, so naturally....

 

[redheart]

Thank you! This is interesting and suspicious.

Except he didn't end up being the trial judge for the TB case... Was he recused? Will we ever find out?

I think Tealgrove is speculating (and it certainly sounds plausible to me, unless I'm missing something) that this hearing had to do with Paradkar being caught delivering DM's letters. Nothing to do with Glitherto himself. MOO

 

[E-coaster]

Maybe they were sent fedex, who knows

 

[mimimic]

With respect to finding MS less guilty. I wonder if we are all a little bit desensitized by following so closely for so long compared to likely most of the jury. Just a thought.

 

[andreww]

Just a hunch, but I think CN may appear next week based on her recent social media pic.

I doubt it. Even though she was a hostile witness in the TB trial, and as uncooperative as a person could be, she still did Millard more damage than good. The letters have discredited any lies she could tell. Absolutely no up side for anybody to call her.

 

[Grey-St]

I think Tealgrove is speculating (and it certainly sounds plausible to me, unless I'm missing something) that this hearing had to do with Paradkar being caught delivering DM's letters. Nothing to do with Glitherto himself. MOO

Oh yes, I know! And I think it is plausible that this hearing had to do with Paradkar and the letters, as well.

I just also made an additional note as I read the article, that it's suspicious that Glitherto is named as being the trial judge. He didn't end up being the trial judge, so I'm also wondering what went on there... And wonder if we'll ever find out. :dunno:

 

[SnooperDuper]

He didn't end up being the trial judge, so I'm also wondering what went on there... And wonder if we'll ever find out. :dunno:

Judge in Tim Bosma murder case steps down
https://www.therecord.com/news-story/5943328-judge-in-tim-bosma-murder-case-steps-down/

Health concerns have prompted the judge hearing the Tim Bosma murder trial to step down.

Justice Stephen Glithero became ill last week. He is being replaced by Justice Andrew Goodman

 

[Grey-St]

Judge in Tim Bosma murder case steps down
https://www.therecord.com/news-story/5943328-judge-in-tim-bosma-murder-case-steps-down/

Ah! Thank you!

 

[andreww]

With respect to finding MS less guilty. I wonder if we are all a little bit desensitized by following so closely for so long compared to likely most of the jury. Just a thought.

I think the majority of people here know exactly what Smich is all about and what he probably did or didn't do. However, they are not looking at this case with an unbiased opinion and basing that opinion on the evidence that has only been presented in this case. At this point I have little doubt that Smich will be found not guilty, not because he is, but because there just isn't the evidence to prove it.

 

[RezButt]

Thank you! This is interesting and suspicious.

Except he didn't end up being the trial judge for the TB case... Was he recused? Will we ever find out?

He was seriously ill, if I remember correctly.

 

[andreww]

IMO, you're correct- DM didn't give a care about any woman, however, "Kinks" proved herself to be different; she was a manipulating player as well-calling Boris in for a little fling just a week or so before DM killed LB . She told DM how warm and fuzzy it made her feel when he talked about hurting LB and making the "herpes" go away for good. She texts DM "Have fun doing big things" around 10 pm the night he murdered LB. IMHO, CN will just pull a KH and change her name- she'll disappear into a new identity. I can't say that she was just a young woman in love with a bad guy. MOO

Maybe. Millard is a complex person. He doesn't seem to need people like a normal person does. I think CN was disposable. He broke up with her and didn't seem to be fazed by it. I also believe AM when he said that nobody really cared for MS, including Millard. People seemed to be tools to him and Smich was the perfect tool assist him in his biddings. I think the lovey dovey tone of his letters is Millard simply playing her. She was his last shot, his only shot, so he took it. Yes she is a terrible person, but I don't think she was the only reason Millard killed LB. There is so much we don't know and will never know. Conversations about a Vegas/Disney trip obviously happened but there is no trace of them. There could easily have been extortion attempts from LB, we simply don't know.

 

[gremlingrrl]

I think Tealgrove is speculating (and it certainly sounds plausible to me, unless I'm missing something) that this hearing had to do with Paradkar being caught delivering DM's letters. MOO

I wonder if the court recordings (transcripts?) will be available to the media after the trials are completed and the pub bans are lifted.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Don't agree. The fact that she knew about LB and did nothing makes her equally responsible for TB and WM's deaths IMO.

I don't think we know she knew until he was arrested and started his letter writing campaign or the news stories came out. It is possible she knew but an assumption at this point.

 

[JuneBug67]

I think the majority of people here know exactly what Smich is all about and what he probably did or didn't do. However, they are not looking at this case with an unbiased opinion and basing that opinion on the evidence that has only been presented in this case. At this point I have little doubt that Smich will be found not guilty, not because he is, but because there just isn't the evidence to prove it.

I'm not so sure about that. First, there are still things to come, and key among those things will be the judge's charge to the jury. Beyond that, you can see right here how minds work very differently and parse facts accordingly. There are many people here who in listing the evidence against Smich for M1 cite his actions on the 23rd - the incineration, the photographs etc. From a logical point of view this just doesn't hang together. It's clear that based on pure logic that this act disconnected from the original events by three weeks and comprised of completely different actions does not and cannot in fact support proof of the completely distinct act of murder. It's a bit like saying that your buddy that comes by at the end of the month to give you a ride with your haul from a bank robbery three weeks ago is the getaway driver. No, he's not. You can do act B and have had nothing to do with act A. So it's not purely logical thinking people are using re Smich on the example of his role in the incineration, but it is intuitive thinking. Their experience and gut tells them that a guy who does what he did on the 23rd, and who was in on the shopping and the testing, and who was there the night Laura died, is up to his ears in the whole thing. Both are valid lines of thought. Some truths are better revealed through cold, linear logic and others are better revealed through less linear, intuitive thinking. The questions is, what kind of problem is this? And what is the thinking style of any given individual on the jury? Experienced attorneys have learned to never guess what a jury is thinking, and we would probably be smart to remember to remind ourselves of that. Often!

 

[Grey-St]

I wonder if the court recordings (transcripts?) will be available to the media after the trials are completed and the pub bans are lifted.

From what I read, the media fought the Judge's decision to keep the public out of the courtroom on day 1 during the pre-trial motions of the TB case. They won, were able to read the transcripts from day 1, and were able to sit in on the remainder of the pre-trial motions. The publication ban has remained in effect, so journalists know what went on, but could not/can not report on it. I don't know the answer to your question regarding the publication ban. It could be lifted after all three trials are complete and the media can then report, or it could remain in effect. It's hard to speculate.

 

[JuneBug67]

Re the letters, and how they were delivered - there are a couple of clues in the the DM-CN letters. One I mentioned recently - and now heavily paraphrased - "I was so hoping to get a letter from you tonight, but I think visiting hours are over now." A second one - even more paraphrased - "My mom visited me this morning. It was nice to see her. Blah blah blah other unrelated words. I think a messenger might be coming this very night to deliver this letter to you." So, it seems to confirm it's somebody who comes in to specifically see him from the outside on both counts. But perhaps not his mother, because she had just been there that morning. There's also another spot where he talks about his visits being through glass, so it is less likely to be a standard visitor.