Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[LadyL]

[bbm]

holy crap I didn't know about either of these

I doubt it. The quote about "Next level stuff" tells me that murder was a new thing for these guys. However, people seem to die around Millard. The mechanic that fell off the plane wing while alone with Millard and the ex girlfriend that killed herself in NY, coincidence? Who knows. But I don't think there are any random victims buried around southern Ontario courtesy of DM.

 

[LadyL]

[bbm]

absolutely ... I'm almost positive ...

I’ve wondered if the take from ‘the source’ remark was alluding to Wayne Millard (who was dead a few months later) He seemed unaware of his father’s actual financial situation until after he died.

While I’m speculating does anyone else wonder if DM had a juvenile record? There seems to be so much more to the story with his uncle.



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[banting]

[bbm]

holy crap I didn't know about either of these

The mechanic, a 75year old man, fell off a platform while working on an old Millardair plane. He was not alone with DM, there were I think 2 others helping with the work plus DM. It was in 2005. The platform was deemed unsafe and Millardair was fined and instructed to comply with safety regulations.
The Ontario safety boards report on the incident is on the web somewhere but I just can't find it now. They were dismantling the engines I think prior to the plane being moved back to Pearson.

 

[winter2017]

No there is nothing I have read he had a juvenile record. He just was described as weird by some who knew him when he was young. He was able to fly a plane at age 14 it was in the news. The house at Maplegate if that is the house he grew up in was a very nice place. He had a lot given to him. There are things written that the parents were alcoholics and one thing I read said they were often in a drunken stupor during the day. If he experienced that it is a form of neglect IMO. Nothing is recorded why his Uncle took care of him for a while. I think the father later in his life was alcoholic.

I’ve wondered if the take from ‘the source’ remark was alluding to Wayne Millard (who was dead a few months later) He seemed unaware of his father’s actual financial situation until after he died.

While I’m speculating does anyone else wonder if DM had a juvenile record? There seems to be so much more to the story with his uncle.



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[winter2017]

The worst possible job has to be a prison guard at Millhaven with some of the worst criminals. They deserve to get paid a lot of money for doing the job.

From Wikepedia... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millhaven_Institution

Millhaven consists of three main living units, a segregation unit and a hospital wing. There are approximately 120 men per unit.

Sometimes posters are providing misinformation without linking sources......

 

[kaRN]

I took this to mean you are referring to DM not LB, correct?
Actually... a line in wikipedia (lol sorry I know) says this- Psychopathy often considered untreatable. It's unique characteristics makes it among the most refractory of personality disorders, a class of mental illnesses that are already traditionally considered difficult to treat.

I looked Psychopathy and sociopathy up for interest. Even though it might not be so named as a mental illness - it sure seems like form of brain illness. Without getting too technical.

as a side i don't think depression and schizophrenia/bipolar should be classified together.

Stay off wikipedia please [emoji16]
Any medical doctor, psychologist or psychiatrist that sourced wikipedia would lose their license.

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[iPhoneGuy]

If DM breaks the rules and starts giving his version of events in his closing arguments, then what? Would the Crown and/or Dungey object? I haven't heard of objections during closing arguments, but then again lawyers tend to play by the rules - not so sure about DM...

BBM

That's what people do in closing, provide their interpretation of the story of the evidence.

I would imagine/hope that DM's closing has been mostly scripted and then passed by his legal assistant. He has been referenced to consulting with them often during the trial.

Having objections and corrections after the address is not the worst; the Crown in TB's trial's last line in closing was stricken:

Goodman began his instructions to jurors by telling them they should disregard this remark in the Crown's closing address: "'When you retire to consider your verdict, don't forget about Tim, who is not here to tell you what really happened.'"

Goodman said: "Those concluding comments were improper, and ought not to have been said … you must totally disregard those remarks."

Goodman told the jury not to be swayed by sympathy or fear.

"You must not be influenced by public opinion," he said.


http://www.cbc.ca/1.3628286

Not the worst = The Crown won the case even with a grandiose correction in the judge's charge.

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[Ontario Mom]

I haven't been able to follow this the way I'd hoped (or the way I followed the Bosma trial) but it just seems so surreal, and cruel in a sense, that DM struts around court representing himself. Almost like a really bad circus act that should be over, immediately.

 

[clefk27]

If DM breaks the rules and starts giving his version of events in his closing arguments, then what? Would the Crown and/or Dungey object? I haven't heard of objections during closing arguments, but then again lawyers tend to play by the rules - not so sure about DM...

It is interesting to consider that DM, in his closing argument, will achieve essentially everything that he would have accomplished had he chosen to testify, without the hazard of then being taken apart in cross by both TD and the Crown. And reassuring that by following DM, TD and the Crown (presumably JC) can least rip apart his closing arguments.

 

[Georgeo]

It is interesting to consider that DM, in his closing argument, will achieve essentially everything that he would have accomplished had he chosen to testify, without the hazard of then being taken apart in cross by both TD and the Crown. And reassuring that by following DM, TD and the Crown (presumably JC) can least rip apart his closing arguments.

The law is certainly tricky and in this case there is a way for DM to "testify" anyways!!!! Doesn't seem fair. Once jury hears something, it is impossible to unhear it.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

It is interesting to consider that DM, in his closing argument, will achieve essentially everything that he would have accomplished had he chosen to testify, without the hazard of then being taken apart in cross by both TD and the Crown. And reassuring that by following DM, TD and the Crown (presumably JC) can least rip apart his closing arguments.

MS can do the same through TD.

In a lot of ways MS closing is more interesting than DM. DM pretty much has to say that LB is still alive and missing since so much evidence points to him leading the charge to kill.

MS can go three ways - 1) LB is still alive or at least not proven to be murdered in court or 2) admit she was killed but he had nothing to do with it and he just helped with the incinerator or 3) admit she was killed and he had no idea what was in the incinerator until afterward (this is a tough sell given the rap)

 

[ABro]

The law is certainly tricky and in this case there is a way for DM to "testify" anyways!!!! Doesn't seem fair. Once jury hears something, it is impossible to unhear it.

Hearing is not the same as believing. People need to give the jurors some credit.

 

[gremlingrrl]

No there is nothing I have read he had a juvenile record.

Even if he did, it would not be publicly disclosed except under very limited circumstances:

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/yj-jj/tools-outils/back-hist.html

 

[Grey-St]

[FONT=&quot]Last year, the death of his father, Wayne, brought focus to his meandering path, Millard says.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"He was probably the person I loved most in the world, even more than myself," he says.[/FONT]

Even more than himself?! Self-proclaimed narcissism?!

I know this isn't new to any of us, but I'm just bored looking back on old articles. I can't believe he took this interview... It truly baffles me.

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...dellen-millard-says-he-didn-t-kill-tim-bosma/

 

[billandrew]

Even more than himself?! Self-proclaimed narcissism?!

I know this isn't new to any of us, but I'm just bored looking back on old articles. I can't believe he took this interview... It truly baffles me.

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...dellen-millard-says-he-didn-t-kill-tim-bosma/

Speaking of old articles, have you seen this one? http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...jury-didnt-hear-in-the-tim-bosma-murder-trial

Somehow I missed it last year. I just came across it last week and it has some interesting behind the scenes tidbits from the Bosma trial that I never read about anywhere else.

 

[mimimic]

Isn't this the way to become highly edumacated!? On this note, I have been very thankful to follow along here on this site with interest. I had tried sparing you all and follow along on another public site way back during the TB trial, but found it to be very stressful because it was very argumentative and didn't stay focused. So thank you all for your patience.

Stay off wikipedia please [emoji16]
Any medical doctor, psychologist or psychiatrist that sourced wikipedia would lose their license.

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oh, and i am none of the above. lol

 

[mimimic]

One thing I wonder with the theory that they were just starting out dangerous missions that include exactly what they did to TB is, what would they have been classified as? Serial Murders? It's almost like they are a new bread almost the same mentality as hired killers.

No respect for life. No real vendetta, or personal belief. Just the ability to care less and do it for money.

(AM told DM he told MM when she was worried the morning of May 7th, that it wasn't the first and wouldn't be the last.)

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Speaking of old articles, have you seen this one? http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...jury-didnt-hear-in-the-tim-bosma-murder-trial

Somehow I missed it last year. I just came across it last week and it has some interesting behind the scenes tidbits from the Bosma trial that I never read about anywhere else.

Must have been some legal arguments on if they could bring up the pregnancy belly thing with MM after DM suggested she smuggled ammo across the border.

 

[Grey-St]

Speaking of old articles, have you seen this one? http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...jury-didnt-hear-in-the-tim-bosma-murder-trial

Somehow I missed it last year. I just came across it last week and it has some interesting behind the scenes tidbits from the Bosma trial that I never read about anywhere else.

There was also mention of arson and setting cars on fire at Toronto’s Harbourfront Centre, but there were few details.

First I've heard of this, specifically!

Also noteworthy: DM having a hissy fit over "killing games", the Scarface reference, 28 amateur rap performances and many other written lyrics on the Ipad (some of which DM co-wrote!?), the Dungey/Sachak argument (calling MS a perjurer), among other things I hadn't read before... Great article!

 

[Bluepopsicle]

First I've heard of this, specifically!

Also noteworthy: DM having a hissy fit over "killing games", the Scarface reference, 28 amateur rap performances and many other written lyrics on the Ipad (some of which DM co-wrote!?), the Dungey/Sachak argument (calling MS a perjurer), among other things I hadn't read before... Great article!

Yes, this was really interesting, I had to laugh at the judge’s naivete, in thinking the jurors wouldn’t know the line from Scarface!

Does anyone know if we’ll ever get to see the raps, texts that have been kept out of evidence, etc? I’m assuming this is because of pub bans, but I’m wondering if that will be lifted after WM’s trial, or if this is simply material we’ll never get to see?