Baez - Just Lost The Trial

[krkrjx]

Ineffective counsel is one of the most common arguments made in appeal after conviction. However, it is not as easy to prove as many people think it would be. Counsel would have to be neglectful in presenting facts or evidence that might have made a difference in the verdict had they been presented, or witnesses that might have made a difference in the verdict had they testified. And it would have to be proven that counsel had access to such facts and witnesses before or during the trial but deliberately chose not to use them. Just naming an example.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I think the resident attorneys mostly agree she won't get an ineffective counsel appeal, thank goodness!

 

[Tuffy]

I cannot find the thread right now, going to come baqck and post it when I do,
but apparently this sighting has been debunked.
There is a very long and credible blog which shows why this witness was incorrect.

Yes, I found the thread, and it's coming back to me now. I guess that's why I had really forgotten about the guy. His story sounds iffy at best.

 

[Donjeta]

Okay thedeviledadvocate, I'll bite! lol

Your post that you quoted above, you asked why SB didn't call the police when he smelled decomposition? Good question and I don't have the answer. Why didn't GA call the police?
When SB first inspected the car and smelled decomp, why didn't he call the police at that moment? They both stated that the trash bag was not the smell that was emanating from the trunk. So you stumped me on that question!

SBM.

Realistically, what's gonna happen if you call 911 and say the police need to come quickly, your car trunk smells like death? You say that you took away a bag of rotting garbage but you insist that the smell isn't caused by the rotting garbage, somebody died in there.

I don't think they'd come running to do forensic tests unless you also report a missing person at the same time. I think a lot of dispatchers would just conclude that the caller smelled extremely foul stinking garbage and went a bit hysterical.

 

[YooKay]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before but... I think the reason Baez and his team has lost this case is by showing how utterly brilliant their client is at lying.

For them to have put together such a laughable story just shows what it's like being close to ICA for any length of time, you get sucked in, doubts creep in and all good sense goes out of the window.

Her defence team have just given the State the best gift ever! Not only has ICA damaged her parents, brother and friends reputations she is now taking down the careers of her counsel with her, she's made them a laughing stock.

I think the jury will see all this very clearly and judge much more harshly because of it. The enormous damage she has done her those around her to protect herself and the lack of ANY responsibility will show the jury the way they need to vote in that phase of the trial.

They have seen ICA all smiles and giggles during the jury selection process and now they are seeing the walking wounded with shattered lives taking the stand.

Justice is coming Caylee!

 

[Tuffy]

Since this was the first time I have heard this story I did some looking and from what I can see this is unverified. The fact is there isn't a Walmart in the country that doesn't have dozens of surveillance cameras everywhere. I am positive that if they were there it would have been recorded. And with Caylee's face being plastered all over Orlando a month later other people would have come forward and said they had seen her, too. Plus, since Casey didn't have any money and even if she did she seemed to like using other people's money more, there would be some kind of debit card or check evidence, too. My verdict, maybe well meaning but totally wrong.

If the state has him as a witness, I would think they have verified some part of this. I'm not sure they would have gotten video though, because he didn't report it for a year.

 

[Pink Panther]

SBM.

Realistically, what's gonna happen if you call 911 and say the police need to come quickly, your car trunk smells like death? You say that you took away a bag of rotting garbage but you insist that the smell isn't caused by the rotting garbage, somebody died in there.

I don't think they'd come running to do forensic tests unless you also report a missing person at the same time. I think a lot of dispatchers would just conclude that the caller smelled extremely foul stinking garbage and went a bit hysterical.

Also, they DID call. That night, after they had found KC and realized that Caylee wasn't with her.

 

[Tuffy]

That will be a problem for the defense. If you ask me, do I think RK moved the remains and kept them, then placed them back in the area later, I would say probably not. Still, with all the turmoil created around RK, and the defense not be allowed to observe during the retrieval of the remains, I do think it is possible that he did. Should the defense go all the way down this road, for their sake, I hope they have an explaination for the osteological findings.

BBM

When have the defense attorneys in a case ever been allowed onto the crime scene while the CSI team is working? If that were to happen, all the evidence would be suspect.

It's just not done. The technicians on scene have no reason to tamper with this case. Are we to assume that without the defense team observing them, monkey business might be happening in order to frame Casey for murder?

 

[crimesnooper]

I understand the reasoning of people who speculate Caylee's body was hidden on the property for a day or so but the As have two dogs, and there is no way two dogs would not draw attention to a dead body. They would be obsessed with it. My dog found a little dying possum when we were walking and I had to drag him away and take him home and then go back to get the possum (and take it to our lovely vet who agreed to euthanize it for free.) The Anthony dogs would have barked and fretted and stayed in Caylee's vicinity day and night until the situation was resolved. They would have been sad and worried and hyperalert and wanting GA and CA to do something.

ITA I can't quite make out what kind of dogs they have, but one looks like there is terrier in him. If so, terriers are even more tenacious about anything that has a scent.

 

[crimesnooper]

Ineffective counsel is one of the most common arguments made in appeal after conviction. However, it is not as easy to prove as many people think it would be. Counsel would have to be neglectful in presenting facts or evidence that might have made a difference in the verdict had they been presented, or witnesses that might have made a difference in the verdict had they testified. And it would have to be proven that counsel had access to such facts and witnesses before or during the trial but deliberately chose not to use them. Just naming an example.

Any lawyers on here? What 's the difference between inneffective counsel, inexperienced counsel and or just a bad/ not terribly bright lawyer?

 

[crimesnooper]

WARNING! Completely off topic. Please forgive. It's Memorial Day. Thinking back to 1970 and coming home from college for the summer and seeing the funeral car carrying the body of my 19-year-old neighbor killed in Viet Nam. The kid we played tag with, rodes bikes with, grew up with. To all those who have served and never come home and to the families who endured such a great loss, you are in our hearts today and we have not forgotten.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

BBM

When have the defense attorneys in a case ever been allowed onto the crime scene while the CSI team is working? If that were to happen, all the evidence would be suspect.

It's just not done. The technicians on scene have no reason to tamper with this case. Are we to assume that without the defense team observing them, monkey business might be happening in order to frame Casey for murder?

Especially when their experts have a history of tampering with evidence like Dr. Lee.

 

[krisskross]

WOW I forgot about that little gem. And don't forget, JB wanted to prevent the media from following her iirc. Totally not suspicious. Where would she be searching if Caylee drowned?

Talking of little gems. I sure hope the jury gets to hear this one.

LE secretly recorded ICA August 29th on her way to jail for the fraud charges. Det Appie Wells was in the car. :innocent: Maybe LE remembered how fond ICA was of him. :floorlaugh: Appie starts talking about Cindy' losing weight. Then unprompted ICA initiates a conversation about why no amber alert was put out for Caylee. Her coolness is breathtaking.

Baez claims all ICA is guilty of is not calling 911, and that she is a victim.
Well a certain prosecutor might couch this gem as a master manipulator trying to divert an investigation. :waitasec:

Baez imo has opened the door for this and most of the jail tapes to come in. Remember her giving out clues, writing secondary letters, :crazy: saying how they will all have their little girl back and she, ICA will be this crazy overprotective mom. IIRC she even talked about looking at work schedules. :Giggle:


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiq6BEW7ygA[/ame]

 

[krimekat]

I'm wondering if there isn't some entity that could step in and stop this right now. JB is in over his head and it's so obvious that if there is, in fact, a guilty verdict, Casey will be screaming "ineffective counsel". And she will be right, I'm sorry to say. This is so unfair to the taxpayers of Florida who are footing the bill to defend this poor excuse of a human being.

I haven't done my homework on CM, but perhaps he should take over.

This is so unfair to the State of FLA, LE, FLA taxpayers, the justice system, the victims, etc. If there is any $$$ to be made, it should be used as reimbursement of this 3 year circus!

Remember when KC didn't attend the initial court room proceedings & Strickland demanded her to be there . . . and then the barrage/revolving door of attys "helping" KC, and now we have pro bono CMason, a qualified DP atty, on the case, not to mention AFinnell.

So, I do believe every measure is being taken to ensure KC is fully represented in the eyes of the Court. IMHO, DT should have stuck with the Invisinanny story . . .

Baez lost this trial during opening statements. :floorlaugh:

 

[krkrjx]

Any lawyers on here? What 's the difference between inneffective counsel, inexperienced counsel and or just a bad/ not terribly bright lawyer?

cs...

Great question. Why not post it in the ask the lawyers thread and see what they have to say.

I am not a lawyer but have read numerous appeals claiming ineffective counsel so that's how I got the info I originally posted. Ineffective counsel can be claimed, and an appeal might be won on the claim, in circumstances where a lawyer is inexperience or bad/not terribly bright if it can be proven that such inexeprience or lack of wisdom resulted in a guilty verdict that might not have happened otherwise. But there is a fine line between appearing ineffective and actually being ineffective as defined by law and recognized by appeals courts.

 

[RevCrim]

Okay thedeviledadvocate, I'll bite! lol

Your post that you quoted above, you asked why SB didn't call the police when he smelled decomposition? Good question and I don't have the answer. Why didn't GA call the police?
When SB first inspected the car and smelled decomp, why didn't he call the police at that moment? They both stated that the trash bag was not the smell that was emanating from the trunk. So you stumped me on that question!

IMO I don't see GA as being "evasive & combative". I see GA as a man that is worn out...physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I do think JB's questioning is trying to goad GA into a confrontation.

This whole Roy Kronk thing is so unbelievable!!! HOW did RK get custody of Caylee's body? Where did RK hide the body? Why would RK place the body in the woods? I can't recall exactly what RK's statement was but I don't recall any inconsistencies? I also believe the "thing" with his son is revenge being best served cold.

IMO, it is NOT mind boggling that so many people were "near" the area where Caylee was found and did not find her. The entire area was underwater for quite a while, thanks to Hurricane Faye (I think it was Faye?). Tim Miller called off the search several times when he saw the wooded area still underwater. I am sure Tim Miller will testify to this at trial. Not so sure what GSJ is going to say? I just don't buy the Kronk story at all. IF someone can explain to me how Kronk GOT the body in the first place, maybe I can wrap my mind around it.

I think the reason GA didn't call LE when he smelled the car at the tow lot could have been that once he saw KC & Caylee were not in the trunk, as an
ex-cop, he thought KC may have been involved in something bad with people who were trouble, and that's why he wanted to talk to KC first to find out what was going on before she got all of them involved as the car was in his and CA's name, or that someone stole the car from KC and used it in a crime. He just didn't know what to think.
I think SB just didn't want to get involved with anything at this point and who could blame him, after all, GA came to get the car, he may have thought GA was a killer, not yet knowing about Caylee.

 

[pinkfly]

I think that if the dt had just made the accusation of sex abuse as an excuse for the 31 days and then presented a pool accident after her parents went to work it might have had some believers. To include GA in that wild version and make a whole other set of facts try to fit a scenario seems suicidal to me. To me this does indicate that ICA is on the steering committee and even JB must know they are headed for the rocks. I think I am most surprised by CM going along. He is very seasoned and very experienced.

 

[cakegirl0905]

Link http://www.acandyrose.com/casey_anthony_31days-061608.htm

June 16, 2008 (Mon)
04:00pm estimate
James Thompson:
07/22/09 Statement
James (TechbayUSA) seen Casey and Caylee exiting Casselberry Walmart, 1239 State Road, Casselberry, FL around his lunchtime.

James Thompson's statement to Police about him seeing ICA and Caylee the day after Father's day.
http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_jamesthompson-072209.html

I hope I'm doing the links right. First time.

OMG. That has got to be the biggest hole in their theory. How could JB be so stupid?

 

[nursebeeme]

Jose Baez stated in his opening remarks that Caylee died due to a tragic accident - a drowning in the family pool. Baez goes on to give a touching story but is it rooted in reality?

I don't think so and I'll tell you why

This is what Baez stated in his opening remarks;

"Early morning hours the exact time is not known...it could have been early afternoon...early morning...actually it was the early morning hours. George Anthony approached Casey and started yelling at her - where's Caylee, where's Caylee? They began to search the house, they couldn't find her, they searched in the bedrooms, they searched under the beds, in the closets, in the garage, then they went outside. This is a mock up of the Anthony home where you'll see they both came outside. Casey came around to the left of the house, George went that way towards the pool, they have an above ground pool with a ladder, and we'll talk about the pool and the ladder in just a moment. What happened next is as soon as Casey came around this corner and went back she saw George Anthony holding Caylee in his arms."

Keeping in mind that opening statements are not evidence but if you present them to a jury you had better hope that you can back them up and this is where Baez scores a huge fail.

There is no way there is enough time for George to...

1 find Caylee in the pool
2 climb the ladder
3 get in the pool
4 grab Caylee
5 remove Caylee and himself from the pool
6 climb back down the ladder
7 walk back to the opposite corner of the house where Casey is just returning

The corridor at the side of the house that Casey is alleged to have gone to is a small and very narrow space with a locked shed at the end of the corridor with no where for Caylee to hide - it would probably only take about 20 seconds to walk there and back to the edge of the house - so no way no how is this going to fly with a jury.

LDB crafted a brilliantly clever and concise presentation and made very sure to do this step by careful step with Cindy, to lay out the dimensions of the house, the garden and the pool area - complete with photographic evidence of how small a space they are talking about. I've no doubt this was quickly put together by the state when they heard Baez's opening remarks.

Still don't believe me, well just to put the icing on the cake when Baez attempts to throw Cindy into the mix as a possible accomplice - Cindy refutes this utterly and completely believably by thwarting him with her testimony that she removed that pool ladder.

Casey's pool story is busted as a complete fabrication.

Baez just lost the trial in the 1.40 mins it took him to tell that story.

bumping up the opening post to make sure we all stay on topic:rocker:

 

[fifteen89]

Since this was the first time I have heard this story I did some looking and from what I can see this is unverified. The fact is there isn't a Walmart in the country that doesn't have dozens of surveillance cameras everywhere. I am positive that if they were there it would have been recorded. And with Caylee's face being plastered all over Orlando a month later other people would have come forward and said they had seen her, too. Plus, since Casey didn't have any money and even if she did she seemed to like using other people's money more, there would be some kind of debit card or check evidence, too. My verdict, maybe well meaning but totally wrong.

If he came forward a year later, I'm guessing any video was long gone.
If he's on the SA witness list, maybe they found the credit card evidence.
As I posted earlier, in reading his statement I was reminded of all the details Casey puts in her stories.
I'll wait and see.