Baez - Just Lost The Trial

[Trapshooter]

That will be a problem for the defense. If you ask me, do I think RK moved the remains and kept them, then placed them back in the area later, I would say probably not. Still, with all the turmoil created around RK, and the defense not be allowed to observe during the retrieval of the remains, I do think it is possible that he did. Should the defense go all the way down this road, for their sake, I hope they have an explaination for the osteological findings.

thedeviledadvocate I have a question...hopefully you or one of my great WS friends can answer this...Did the SA's office observe the remains retrieval? I really don't know the answer but am very curious.

You still haven't explained how RK obtained the body in the first place!

 

[Stella5]

That will be a problem for the defense. If you ask me, do I think RK moved the remains and kept them, then placed them back in the area later, I would say probably not. Still, with all the turmoil created around RK, and the defense not be allowed to observe during the retrieval of the remains, I do think it is possible that he did. Should the defense go all the way down this road, for their sake, I hope they have an explaination for the osteological findings.

BBM... why would the defense be allowed to observe the retrival of the remains? At that point in time, Caylee was not positively identified and it was a Crime Scene. They whined & carried on, because IMO ICA told them that's where Caylee was. Look at the email from the Corrections Officer who observed her... she knew that was Caylee from the moment they said a child's skeleton remains were found on Suburban.

Roy is an innocent victim, IMO. He should have pressed the issue further in August, and possibly we'd have a COD. Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda...

 

[LancelotLink]

To be fair, they never thought they were trying to clear their daughter of murder. They thought they were clearing their daughter of being accused of a crime they were certain she didn't commit.
There is a difference between knowing someone did something wrong and trying to protect them from the consequences of their actions and believing that they didn't do something wrong and trying to convince people of their innocence. Not saying they were right but I am just trying to look at it from their perspective.

I don't agree. They acted as if she was being railroaded. However, the lengths they went to tells me they knew about the duct tape. That duct tape is the crux of this case, IMO. The reason she wanted out to search privately. The reason Caylee was "missing." the reason for the meet and greet while simultaneously, DC was looking for garbage bags, knicking at them like a school girl, knowing what he was looking for.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

the deviladvocat-
What do you think was Casey's involvement in the death of Caylee as opposed to the statements made by JB?

My personal opinion of KC's involvement in the death of Caylee is that she was either on the phone or texting on the phone, or using the computer. She wasn't paying attention to Caylee for awhile and the child made her way into the pool and drowned. This is what I thought prior to opening statements.

After opening statements, and after seeing GA's testimony when asked the question about sexual abuse, well, I have had to reevaluate what I think happened that morning of the 16th. I am not sold 100% that GA sexually abused KC beginning at age 8 and who knows when it stopped (perhaps after she was placed in jail).

As of right now, I do believe that Caylee drowned, and it was accidental. Whether KC was busy texting when it happened or GA was keeping her busy in other ways, I don't know yet.
As always my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[LancelotLink]

BBM... why would the defense be allowed to observe the retrival of the remains? At that point in time, Caylee was not positively identified and it was a Crime Scene. They whined & carried on, because IMO ICA told them that's where Caylee was. Look at the email from the Corrections Officer who observed her... she knew that was Caylee from the moment they said a child's skeleton remains were found on Suburban.

Roy is an innocent victim, IMO. He should have pressed the issue further in August, and possibly we'd have a COD. Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda...

Good God, what more proof do we need? She knew where her daughter's remains were. Not one whiff of concern about the JBP search/ But Suburban Drive? Hyperventilation, Chains getting tight.

 

[Trapshooter]

Personally I think the outrageous levels of chloroform is due to an equipment malfunction.

If ICA didn't place the body in the woods, and GA didn't place the body in the woods then who did?

thedeviledadvocate I am really enjoying your opinions, seriously!

What would make you think there was an equipment malfunction? :waitasec: I can't recall if Dr. Vass said the level of chloroform was 10,000 or 100,000 times greater than he had ever seen.

So you are saying that either ICA or GA did place the body in the woods and that is how RK took possession of it? How will that theory explain the root growth through the child's skeleton? And like LancelotLink said, how does that explain the child's bones being scattered throughout the remains site?

 

[DairyGirl]

Since the police didn't secure the Pontiac for several hours, how do you explain the outrageous levels of chloroform found by Dr. Vass? Are you going to say that is "junk science" too?

I still do NOT understand how RK obtained possession of the body in the first place? Where did he get the body? Do you seriously think that GA & ICA hid the body in the woods? :banghead::banghead: I really think JB's theory about RK is totally way, way, WAY out there!

First off I find it ridiculous that JB thinks that after thousands of people formed organized searches including the best of the best, TES, and found nothing, the RK would just be walking along one day and stumble across the body. And instead of calling 911 like he eventually did, he would take the body and hide to so he could collect fame and fortune. All those people looking and RK was the one? Does JB think the jury is stupid. If I was on the jury I would be furious that my intelligence was insulted so badly.
What I really think happened is that GA ran outside and ran across RK meter reading and said "Hey, do you want to get rich and famous? I have a dead child here and in a month everyone will be looking for her and there will be a large reward if you find her so why don't you take her body and hide it for a while and then plant it down the street so you can frame my daughter. And while you are there don't forget to scatter the bones and gets some vegetation to grow through them."

 

[LancelotLink]

My personal opinion of KC's involvement in the death of Caylee is that she was either on the phone or texting on the phone, or using the computer. She wasn't paying attention to Caylee for awhile and the child made her way into the pool and drowned. This is what I thought prior to opening statements.

After opening statements, and after seeing GA's testimony when asked the question about sexual abuse, well, I have had to reevaluate what I think happened that morning of the 16th. I am not sold 100% that GA sexually abused KC beginning at age 8 and who knows when it stopped (perhaps after she was placed in jail).

As of right now, I do believe that Caylee drowned, and it was accidental. Whether KC was busy texting when it happened or GA was keeping her busy in other ways, I don't know yet.
As always my entire post is my opinion only.

Good deal. So why sit your *advertiser censored* in jail for 3 years?
Why not go with CM's theory?
Why not go with Terence L when he FIRST brought this up?

 

[DairyGirl]

That will be a problem for the defense. If you ask me, do I think RK moved the remains and kept them, then placed them back in the area later, I would say probably not. Still, with all the turmoil created around RK, and the defense not be allowed to observe during the retrieval of the remains, I do think it is possible that he did. Should the defense go all the way down this road, for their sake, I hope they have an explaination for the osteological findings.

They don't even have an explanation of how RK wound up with the body to begin with. We may never know...

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

thedeviledadvocate I have a question...hopefully you or one of my great WS friends can answer this...Did the SA's office observe the remains retrieval? I really don't know the answer but am very curious.

You still haven't explained how RK obtained the body in the first place!

I believe that JA was there when JB and his cohorts were standing outside the yellow tape, but I don't know if he was there every day during the entire procedure.

I think RK knew where the body was on August 11, 12 and 13, and at that point in time had the opportunity to remove the body.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[DairyGirl]

It was not discovered that Caylee was missing until 31 days later. By then the surveillance videos may have been recorded over. Even though he was on the state witness list, last time I checked, the state may choose not to present his claims in court. I did not follow the investigation into his claims after the original interviews with him were in the media. He may have been totally debunked by the state's investigators.

Target had the tape well over a month after Casey cashed AH's checks. I believe that a company as large as Walmart would definitely keep them a long time.

 

[otto]

My personal opinion of KC's involvement in the death of Caylee is that she was either on the phone or texting on the phone, or using the computer. She wasn't paying attention to Caylee for awhile and the child made her way into the pool and drowned. This is what I thought prior to opening statements.

After opening statements, and after seeing GA's testimony when asked the question about sexual abuse, well, I have had to reevaluate what I think happened that morning of the 16th. I am not sold 100% that GA sexually abused KC beginning at age 8 and who knows when it stopped (perhaps after she was placed in jail).

As of right now, I do believe that Caylee drowned, and it was accidental. Whether KC was busy texting when it happened or GA was keeping her busy in other ways, I don't know yet.
As always my entire post is my opinion only.

The evidence (although I haven't followed the case closely) seems to suggest that Casey and Caylee left the house on June 16 and did not return. It also suggests that Casey was interested in chloroform, and that Caylee may have been murdered using chloroform. The way that Caylee was found - with duct tape and some heart shaped stickers on her mouth - suggests that Casey alone was responsible for the murder. The location where the body was found was where Casey and a friend went/played as teenagers/children. Casey's reaction when Caylee was found suggests that she knew that it was her daughter - also suggesting that she put her daughter in that location.

There doesn't appear to be anything to suggest that Caylee drowned or that the death was accidental because accidental deaths are reported and cleared up right away. Parents of children that die because of their negligence suffer extreme guilt and do not go partying while telling lies to everyone who asks about the child.

Other than Casey's lies, there is nothing to support the theory that she was abused as a child by anyone. The allegations strike me as attention getting tactics (when told to a boyfriend) and an excuse for her actions (when told to her lawyer).

 

[rbrnmw2]

He jumped several sharks, if ya ask me.

yeah ITA an ocean full

 

[Stella5]

Good God, what more proof do we need? She knew where her daughter's remains were. Not one whiff of concern about the JBP search/ But Suburban Drive? Hyperventilation, Chains getting tight.

I whole-heartedly agree... she was not concerned whatsoever when "bones" that turned out to be toys & debris showed up at JBP, but then goes into total freak out mode the morning "possible remains of a child" (as reported by the live news at the time) were found on Suburban. That email and first person account is VERY damning to ICA. The chains getting tight were debunked by LE at the Jail, and she's asking for sedatives... but then goes on to talk about freaking football for the love of god! She knew they had found Caylee, because SHE put her there! No one else... not George, and certainly not Roy.

And now we have Cindy testifying that ICA was calling her late afternoon 4ish asking her to babysit on June 16th... and her phone records show NOTHING past calling Cindy from 4p.m. until 6:30ish or so... that's when Caylee died. Sometime in those 2 1/2 hours is when ICA decided to place duct-tape on that precious babies mouth & nose and proceed with her date with Tony. It's cut & dried. There was no drowning. There was no accident. This was intentional so ICA could live her Bella Vita without OUR beautiful Caylee... that's what Caylee is, she has become ALL of OURS! We all love her, even though we've never known her.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

thedeviledadvocate I am really enjoying your opinions, seriously!

What would make you think there was an equipment malfunction? :waitasec: I can't recall if Dr. Vass said the level of chloroform was 10,000 or 100,000 times greater than he had ever seen.

So you are saying that either ICA or GA did place the body in the woods and that is how RK took possession of it? How will that theory explain the root growth through the child's skeleton? And like LancelotLink said, how does that explain the child's bones being scattered throughout the remains site?

When I read through Dr. Vass's report, his fancy machine had to be restarted a number of times, like 8 or 9 times. I really don't know anything about his fancy machine, but when I use machinery and it has to be restarted over and over, there is usually a problem and problems can cause errors. Also the amount of chloroform was so over the top, that it doesn't make sense. I am really looking forward to dr Vass and his explaination of this high amount of chloroform.

Yes, I think that GA or KC placed the body in the woods, and that is where RK would have had the opportunity to take possession of it. The root growth and distribution regarding the bones will have to be explained by the defenses experts.

as always my entire post is my opinion only

 

[LancelotLink]

I believe that JA was there when JB and his cohorts were standing outside the yellow tape, but I don't know if he was there every day during the entire procedure.

I think RK knew where the body was on August 11, 12 and 13, and at that point in time had the opportunity to remove the body.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

But how did he know it was Caylee and not some other unfortunate child?
JB forgot to say how Caylee ended up in the woods.
Come on, seriously?

 

[Stella5]

When I read through Dr. Vass's report, his fancy machine had to be restarted a number of times, like 8 or 9 times. I really don't know anything about his fancy machine, but when I use machinery and it has to be restarted over and over, there is usually a problem and problems can cause errors. Also the amount of chloroform was so over the top, that it doesn't make sense. I am really looking forward to dr Vass and his explaination of this high amount of chloroform.

Yes, I think that GA or KC placed the body in the woods, and that is where RK would have had the opportunity to take possession of it. The root growth and distribution regarding the bones will have to be explained by the defenses experts.

as always my entire post is my opinion only

With all due respect, it's not the defense witnesses who will testify to root growth, it's the state's witnesses. The defense will try to explain it away as "junk science" and what not, but it won't fly... botanists will explain the growth to precision and Baez won't be able to mumble & bumble his way out of that.

 

[LancelotLink]

When I read through Dr. Vass's report, his fancy machine had to be restarted a number of times, like 8 or 9 times. I really don't know anything about his fancy machine, but when I use machinery and it has to be restarted over and over, there is usually a problem and problems can cause errors. Also the amount of chloroform was so over the top, that it doesn't make sense. I am really looking forward to dr Vass and his explaination of this high amount of chloroform.

Yes, I think that GA or KC placed the body in the woods, and that is where RK would have had the opportunity to take possession of it. The root growth and distribution regarding the bones will have to be explained by the defenses experts.

as always my entire post is my opinion only

Would you be so kind as to link the report where Dr. Vass's machine needed to be started over and over?

 

[otto]

I whole-heartedly agree... she was not concerned whatsoever when "bones" that turned out to be toys & debris showed up at JBP, but then goes into total freak out mode the morning "possible remains of a child" (as reported by the live news at the time) were found on Suburban. That email and first person account is VERY damning to ICA. The chains getting tight were debunked by LE at the Jail, and she's asking for sedatives... but then goes on to talk about freaking football for the love of god! She knew they had found Caylee, because SHE put her there! No one else... not George, and certainly not Roy.

And now we have Cindy testifying that ICA was calling her late afternoon 4ish asking her to babysit on June 16th... and her phone records show NOTHING past calling Cindy from 4p.m. until 6:30ish or so... that's when Caylee died. Sometime in those 2 1/2 hours is when ICA decided to place duct-tape on that precious babies mouth & nose and proceed with her date with Tony. It's cut & dried. There was no drowning. There was no accident. This was intentional so ICA could live her Bella Vita without OUR beautiful Caylee... that's what Caylee is, she has become ALL of OURS! We all love her, even though we've never known her.

I think so too. When I heard that Casey was desperately looking for someone to look after Caylee on June 16 so she could spend the night with her new boyfriend I wondered if that was the trigger ... that desperation to do what she wanted to do and no one was going to stop her.

Everyone once in a while we see a flash of that extreme anger in Casey's face and I suspect that is what she often felt around her daughter and especially just before the murder. She may have decided to sedate Caylee through the entire night and over-did it ... hard to say. We do know that after the murder she acted relieved and free of responsibility - free to live her pretend life.

 

[katydid23]

My personal opinion of KC's involvement in the death of Caylee is that she was either on the phone or texting on the phone, or using the computer. She wasn't paying attention to Caylee for awhile and the child made her way into the pool and drowned. This is what I thought prior to opening statements.

After opening statements, and after seeing GA's testimony when asked the question about sexual abuse, well, I have had to reevaluate what I think happened that morning of the 16th. I am not sold 100% that GA sexually abused KC beginning at age 8 and who knows when it stopped (perhaps after she was placed in jail).

As of right now, I do believe that Caylee drowned, and it was accidental. Whether KC was busy texting when it happened or GA was keeping her busy in other ways, I don't know yet.
As always my entire post is my opinion only.

Have you heard any of the reasons why some people here,many of them sexual abuse survivors, do not believe Casey's claims?

There are several very good reasons to doubt her story.