GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #2

[Kamille]

Also wondering that if the murder occurred between 8:40-9:52am, how could others in the rooms around their's, not to mention staff and hotel maids, not have heard something if there was an argument prior to Sheila being bludgeoned? This is not the middle of the night when people are sound asleep and there is minimum staff around the hotel.

If there are defensive wounds on her hands and arms, someone must have screamed or yelled or something rather than it being a stealth attack and she was incapacitated before she could make a sound? They should be able to narrow the timeline down with witness statements. I haven't heard of any questioning of other guests. I wonder if they did or tried to keep all this as quiet as possible to the other guests so as not to affect tourism? Or was this a pretty slow time and there weren't that many guests there?

MOO

 

[Quester]

Also wondering that if the murder occurred between 8:40am-9:52am, how could others in the rooms around there's, not to mention staff and hotel maids, not have heard something if there was an argument prior to Sheila being bludgeoned?

If there are defensive wounds on her hands and arms, someone must have screamed or yelled or something? They should be able to narrow the timeline down with witness statements. I haven't heard of any questioning of other guests. I wonder if they did or tried to keep all this as quiet as possible to the other guests so as not to affect tourism?

MOO

I'm wondering if SWM was drugged or just asleep after a rough/angry night. But, ME reports did say that SWM was upright when assaulted so who knows???

Maybe SWM was just getting out of the shower??? and was blindsided???

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree that tourism will have an effect on this crime. And that is why I think it will go to court and be prosecuted in the usual very tough manner.

They need tourists to feel safe. They do not need for the impression to be cast that you can go with your mum/dad/husband/brother/wife/whoever to Bali, knock them off, then flee the island and be free of a murder charge .. or get off a murder charge on a technicality or because you pinned it on your boyfriend .. or get a reduced sentence because you were feeling a little bit crazy at the time.

 

[Curious Me]

hwow: Kamille, something you said, I feel requires an exclamation point and an emoticon. May I?

"TS never even made it to the beach before SWM was dead!" :freakedout:

For some reason, that fact matters to me, but it could go either way in how it is perceived as either premeditation or not.

Some trip to Bali, huh? TS didn't get much out of it after all, except maybe life in prison or the firing squad.

 

[FigTree]

I'm wondering if SWM was drugged or just asleep after a rough/angry night. But, ME reports did say that SWM was upright when assaulted so who knows???

Maybe SWM was just getting out of the shower??? and was blindsided???

I wondered if the bloody bed sheet had been used to incapacitate her - it was put over her head so she couldn't see or was tangled up in it, or in bed when this happened.
With Heather not coming out of the room at all, it means she was present through the entire time between Sheila being alive - and then deceased.
I think Tommy may be grateful at least he was seen out of the room, if only for a moment, if HM tries to deny she didn't know what happened.

As for her acting abnormally and murdering her mother - I think acted as she has always done - nothing out of the ordinary at all for HM.

I wonder if they were drug tested and there was a positive result?
If that's the case - its going to get a lot worse - drugs aren't an excuse for behaviour in Bali - the offense is more severe, as is the punishment.

I wonder if HM & TS made an attempt at a cleanup in the room too?

 

[LinasK]

I think the information stream seems to be hotting up at least a little today with these images of Heather Mack behind bars. The descent into insanity has begun
http://www.news.com.au/world/accuse...-her-unborn-baby/story-fndir2ev-1227057593001

Good! Maybe now the reality of where she'll be living and what she's done may finally be hitting her- and she'll learn that screaming and crying don't work anymore to get her way. Now let's see what her attitude "it do"!!!

 

[SouthAussie]

I wondered if the bloody bed sheet had been used to incapacitate her - it was put over her head so she couldn't see or was tangled up in it, or in bed when this happened.
With Heather not coming out of the room at all, it means she was present through the entire time between Sheila being alive - and then deceased.
I think Tommy may be grateful at least he was seen out of the room, if only for a moment, if HM tries to deny she didn't know what happened.

As for her acting abnormally and murdering her mother - I think acted as she has always done - nothing out of the ordinary at all for HM.

I wonder if they were drug tested and there was a positive result?
If that's the case - its going to get a lot worse - drugs aren't an excuse for behaviour in Bali - the offense is more severe, as is the punishment.

I wonder if HM & TS made an attempt at a cleanup in the room too?

BBM: I think they made a slap-dash attempt to clean up the room. I personally think that the bloody towels and items dumped in the gardens in suitcases were dumped from a room balcony.

And what about that bloody pillow we have seen photos of? I wonder if that was in that yellow plastic bag that we saw in a suitcase? Looks like it could have been. It was a puffy looking bag.

They left lots of clothes in the room apparently. But I would think that they were ‘clean’ clothes and mostly Sheila's clothes.

 

[LinasK]

I am frosted that the only mention of the death penalty is in reference to TS in this article and not HM ((unborn child argument -- blah blah blah))

ok let the kid be born and then let her face dp if appropriate but pregnancy should not mitigate her penalty ((JMHO))

I think the information stream seems to be hotting up at least a little today with these images of Heather Mack behind bars. The descent into insanity has begun
http://www.news.com.au/world/accuse...-her-unborn-baby/story-fndir2ev-1227057593001

This article briefly mentions it: BBM.
If spared the death sentence, detainees can keep their children with them in jail in Bali for up to two years.

 

[LinasK]

I think the information stream seems to be hotting up at least a little today with these images of Heather Mack behind bars. The descent into insanity has begun
http://www.news.com.au/world/accuse...-her-unborn-baby/story-fndir2ev-1227057593001

Thank you seaca for article, just had to print this picture. I have absolutely no sympathy for her.

http://www.news.com.au/world/accuse...-her-unborn-baby/story-fndir2ev-1227057593001

Not so glamourous and pretty there!

 

[Kamille]

I'm wondering if SWM was drugged or just asleep after a rough/angry night. But, ME reports did say that SWM was upright when assaulted so who knows???

Maybe SWM was just getting out of the shower??? and was blindsided???

I wonder how they can tell she was upright when hit? Is there a downward trajectory of the item she was hit with? If so, aren't HM and SWM around the same height? It's TS that would be the one towering over SWM to hit her in a downward motion.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

hwow: Kamille, something you said, I feel requires an exclamation point and an emoticon. May I?

"TS never even made it to the beach before SWM was dead!" :freakedout:

For some reason, that fact matters to me, but it could go either way in how it is perceived as either premeditation or not.

Some trip to Bali, huh? TS didn't get much out of it after all, except maybe life in prison or the firing squad.

And for that reason alone I find it hard to believe that he went there with the intent to murder someone. But for some reason someone did get murdered. Not accidentally either or there would not have been repeated blows with possibly more than one item until the victim was dead and able to be duct taped and stuffed in a suitcase.

I hope he just tells the truth. HM is a compulsive liar, especially to LE when they are questioning her as we saw in most of those police reports. Then again TS was also described as a manipulative liar so we'll probably never really get the truth about what happened and why.


MOO

 

[Kamille]

Wonder what happened at HM's interrogation on Saturday? As I understood the article, only her Indonesian
lawyer was permitted to attend with her. I guess the US ones can go home now until the trial? There is no "discovery" in Indonesian cases is there?

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't think there is any discovery, Kamille. I think that all the defence lawyer will learn is what he hears at the police interrogation of his client.

In fact, the more I look into it, the more I wonder what the heck a defence lawyer can do. Doesn't seem as though they can do much at all, maybe ask a few questions if the judges are okay with that, perhaps prepare their client on how to answer questions in court.


PROBLEMS CONCERNING EVIDENCE:
Indonesian courts only accept five types of legal evidence. This restricts the types of evidence prosecutors and defense attorneys can present at trial. For example, a defence attorney cannot present electronic and physical evidence even though they may be strong proof of the accused's innocence.[52]

Furthermore, the KUHAP does not have specific provisions on evidence gathered abroad. This creates uncertainties when a transnational crime is tried.[53]

Finally, the KUHAP does not have a clear provision on the admissibility of illegally obtained evidence. Hence, the prosecution can present evidence that was obtained through torture, ill-treatment, or contrary to any provision in the KUHAP. Furthermore, there is no judicial avenue for an accused to seek redress if illegal evidence were presented at trial. This undermines the legal safeguards in the KUHAP.

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_Criminal_Procedure

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Hey guys. Haven't been frequenting this thread bc I was going back & forth so much as to what led these 2 to be such idiots...that it was making my head spin. There's alot I need to catch up on.

Don't know if this has been posted yet, so forgive me if its a duplicate. Thx. I'm wondering if this is why police seem to treat Tommy as the main culprit. So as I originally suggested weeks ago, I very much wonder if the first blow to Sheila was done while she was in bed sleeping...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/09/12/bali-indonesia-suitcase-murder/15516571/

BALI, Indonesia — Police have confronted one of the suspects in the murder of 62-year-old Chicago socialite Sheila von Wiese Mack with evidence that could suggest premeditation.

Security-camera footage shows Tommy Schaefer, the boyfriend of Mack's daughter Heather, hiding something under his shirt as he entered Sheila Mack's hotel room on Aug. 12, the day she died, police said. The footage raises the question of whether what he hid under his shirt might have been the murder weapon.

Police confronted Schaefer with the security-camera footage and other evidence while interrogating him for the first time Friday, police said. Heather Mack will be questioned when Schaefer's interrogation is finished, perhaps on Saturday, police said.

Other evidence includes bloody fingerprints on the glass ornament and suitcase, DNA from blood found on Heather Mack's and Schaefer's clothes, security-camera footage of the hallway leading to Sheila Mack's room and readings from electronic door keys showing when Sheila Mack's room was entered and exited, police said.

Security-camera footage shows Schaefer entering the Macks' room at 8:40 a.m. Aug. 12. Heather Mack is seen leaving the room for the first time at 9:52 a.m. Coroners have put the time of Sheila Mack's death around the time the Macks and Schaefer were in the room.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

From that USA Today link: "Security-camera footage shows Tommy Schaefer, the boyfriend of Mack's daughter Heather, hiding something under his shirt as he entered Sheila Mack's hotel room on Aug. 12, the day she died, police said."

ETA: that article is full of information.

Still attempting to catch up... Yeah, so I'm wondering sooo much what was under his shirt. Could it have been a weapon or could it have maybe been duct tape? If it was duct tape, then that could actually suggest Sheila was already dead when he entered her room (maybe from a fight with Heather or maybe attacked at first while she slept) and maybe he took the tape there to help Heather conceal what had happened. I'm curious of the communication between Heather & Tommy in the time between the argument and when Tommy first entered Sheila's room that morning. If Heather contacted Tommy and subsequently he went to her room after that call/contact, that could suggest Heather as the perp and Tommy as someone that helped her conceal the murder. Conversely, if there was no communication between the two prior to Tommy entering that room that morning, then that could lend to Tommy's more major involvement and also maybe help in proving premeditation.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Now there are maternity wagon chasers. Fly nine thousand plus miles to hold the hand of a killer. Real nice!

Protecting the baby's interests, they going to file a motion suggesting the best time to tell the child your mother and father killed your grandmother. Jmo This story continues to be as upsetting today as it was a month ago. Jmo

ciao

This doesn't surprise me at all when I consider Heather is from Chicago. DePaul is where Andrea Lyon lectures and teaches. She was a critical force in the defense of Casey Anthony, as well as many others facing the dp. Criminal defense lawyers that are also anti dp will do whatever it takes to take the dp off the table. Considering an unborn baby is defenseless, and considering Chicago defense attorneys that are also anti dp are abundant, and considering the culture surrounding them that includes like minded persons, it doesn't surprise me. I believe that even if Elvin and associates hadn't stepped up to this defense then somebody else would have, most especially from that area. That's my honest opinion. They're just practicing what they believe in. The exposure and money that could be made afterward is only an added bonus. (FYI I only used Lyon as an example as she's the best anti dp lawyer in our nation)

I know many people in law. Being a prosecutor is heroic for the most part, but many lawyers say that being a criminal defense attorney is more rewarding...not only bc there's more money to be made but bc they're able to actually practice defending the law that they went to school for.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

So they're dressing her up in Chicago gear? Looks like the cap AND tee could be Cubs fan gear...

http://www.suntimes.com/photos/galleries/index.html?story=29825111

Heather Mack, the pregnant Chicago teen incarcerated in Indonesia since she was declared a suspect in the murder of her mother, Sheila von Wiese-Mack, is now being advised by a Chicago area lawyer on how to protect her unborn baby’s future.

Attorney Vanessa Favia, who practices in Oakbrook Terrace, arrived in Bali this week to talk to Mack, whose baby is due in the spring.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

What is known about Maria Vanessa Favia? Her areas of expertise, where she went to school, her community service affiliations, etc...

 

[Kamille]

Still attempting to catch up... Yeah, so I'm wondering sooo much what was under his shirt. Could it have been a weapon or could it have maybe been duct tape? If it was duct tape, then that could actually suggest Sheila was already dead when he entered her room (maybe from a fight with Heather or maybe attacked at first while she slept) and maybe he took the tape there to help Heather conceal what had happened. I'm curious of the communication between Heather & Tommy in the time between the argument and when Tommy first entered Sheila's room that morning. If Heather contacted Tommy and subsequently he went to her room after that call/contact, that could suggest Heather as the perp and Tommy as someone that helped her conceal the murder. Conversely, if there was no communication between the two prior to Tommy entering that room that morning, then that could lend to Tommy's more major involvement and also maybe help in proving premeditation.

Yep, those are the big questions in regards to who is responsible for actually killing SWM and whether is was premeditated. I hope the Bali LE can get some truthful answers from TS.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

So they're dressing her up in Chicago gear? Looks like the cap AND tee could be Cubs fan gear...

http://www.suntimes.com/photos/galleries/index.html?story=29825111

I questioned whether her lawyers brought that clothing with them for her. Wondering why TS is always photographed wearing a prison jumpsuit in handcuffs and HM is in street clothes holding hands with petite LE women. I also cant imagine they've given her suitcase full of clothes back to her.

MOO