GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #3

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It's like they put it through a translator into Indonesian and then put that back through a translator into English. LOL
 
TS seems to have a special knack for a newbie criminal for keeping his face hidden. I've seen photos of him smoking a cigarette behind his hands while being arrested, and then drinking from a glass behind his hands. He's got it down now. Is it shame? Or does he fancy himself a celebrity shunning the media?

We know you did it, dude!
 
FormerOakParker said:
How do you delete from this forum?
Click to expand...

You can delete as long as you can edit. There is a time limit on it and I'm not sure how long you have. As long as you see the edit button on your post you're good. After that, you'd have to alert or PM a mod and request for them to do the deletion. When you click on the edit button, it should give you the option to edit or delete.

HTH :)
 
Curious Me said:
TS seems to have a special knack for a newbie criminal for keeping his face hidden. I've seen photos of him smoking a cigarette behind his hands while being arrested, and then drinking from a glass behind his hands. He's got it down now. Is it shame? Or does he fancy himself a celebrity shunning the media?

We know you did it, dude!
Click to expand...

Maybe he's seen it done by a number of his "rapper" heroes when they've been arrested. ;)

MOO
 
Just thought I'd check in on the Cathay Pacific daily flight to Bali to see when it left and how it gets to Hong Kong before the transfer to another plane to Bali. I find this sight very informative and interesting when dealing with crimes that involve air travel. This was as of 7pm this evening Central Time.

2rzci9f.png


http://flightaware.com/live/

This is a daily flight always using the same flight number CPA807. It appears that it is always scheduled to depart at 3:30pm Central Time out of O'Hare (KORD).

As of August 2, 2014 Cathay Pacific added an extra flight to Hong Kong three days a week (Originally listed as CPA801 then changed to CPA805), the first one commencing August 3rd, which cut about 10 hours off of the trip by leaving at 1:15am Chicago Time and arriving in Hong Kong with enough time to catch the same flight to Denpasar as the people who left the day before at 3:30pm, arriving at 3:00pm on Aug 4th Indonesian time. This new flight might be the reason SWM booked for that time since this was the first flight that would cut 10 hours off the travel and stop over time. This flight is also available on Wed and Fri. Makes complete sense to me that she would have chosen this flight rather than having a really long stop over in Hong Kong.

http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_...s-increase-flight-frequency-from-chicago.html

You can play around with the other flight numbers CPA785 from HKG to DPS would be the next leg of the journey.

On the way back the flight numbers are CPA784 and then CPA806.

If by any chance they were due to leave that day, August 12th, the flight would have left DPS at 4:05pm. I can see someone who hasn't slept all night for whatever reason, requesting a wake up call for 10am to get everything packed for checkout at noon.

Just saying. ;)
 
Kamille said:
Maybe he's seen it done by a number of his "rapper" heroes when they've been arrested. ;)

MOO
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I think he is terribly in check with where he now stands and is ashamed. Make no mistake, he is in for a penny and in for a pound...and he knows he has thrown his life away, regardless of the truth. I'll give him that.
 
Although most here already assumed that money was a primary attraction of TS to HM, it appears that perhaps one "squad" member (not sure if he/she was officially an actual member) openly said: "She's his sugar mama" here:
http://ink361.com/app/users/ig-184236523/tommyexx/photos/ig-780031149515198849_184236523

Was this a "squad" consensus? What does "squad" think of all of this mess they are in?

Looks like TS may have thought he hit the lottery in his relationship with HM... unusual because most "sugar mamas/ daddys" are considerably older...not younger like HM. Also looks like HM may have used $$$$ and thoughts of "magical instant wealth" as a lure to manipulate TS to do her bidding...whatever crazy thing that may have been...IMO

All old news, but just thought this social media comment was validating to what many already believed.
 
As far as squad goes kids use that to loosely describe their group of mutual friends, think of the word posse and how that was used back in the day, your close friends that hang out together. The only time I have ever seen it used in an actual organized fashion or manner is with gangbangers or gang activity...which is decidedly different from these 2 middle class raised suburbanites, with 1 that showed signs of being excessively spoiled. I think it's pretty clear from the comments the "squad", if there is actually one which I doubt highly, like most of their peer/age group are horrified. There is a term currently used which is "sugar babies'"....mostly used by young girls (but I did know one male) to describe themselves when they are receiving the attentions of a male or female, usually older in the form of money, expensive gifts, housing, cars and paying for necessaries and so on in return for spending time with the gifter. Some of my clients have used the term and while some have claimed that it doesn't always involve sex, I think the young ladies I have dealt with are in their heads trying to whitewash the fact that this is basically the same age old arrangement of being kept for the purposes of sex and companionship. It's pretty formalized agreement and there is usually an age disparity. I think that the kid that says that on the instagram is using it as slang to infer HM had the money of the two and was using it to fund the fun as it were, not as a term of art. Did Heather use the money to make herself more attractive and did Tommy find that attractive? I'm guessing ultimately yes, of course. We already know there was difference in their respective wealth and while I don't think that was the sole attraction she must have appeared to Tommy to represent one of the "richer" kids in OPRF, with a common racial background, both from single parent households and she in many of her pictures is very cute and well, who doesn't like sex when you are that young? While you see pics from the past of TS in normal age appropriate settings and activities like being dressed up and with girlfriends, and a lot of kids coming forth expressing their disbelief you really aren't seeing that with Heather. To be sure there is an age difference but where is the "bestie", the close girlfriends, the boys she may have dated or hung out with even if she didn't have a steady boyfriend? Where are those kids parents? I think I heard of 1 male that spoke of her but even that sounded very weak, other than that we hear from Sheila's friends and brother...not very flattering either. This may very well again speak to Heather's socialization skills (or lack there of) and you know, no one likes the pain in the *advertiser censored* mean kid. I would love to know why she got kicked out of dance school. I wonder if HM may not have had a lot of those "norms" and maybe TS represented a real "first" relationship for her and she was trying to impress him and get integrated in the downtown Chicago lifestyle. Speaking of HM's money I'll bet right now that Shelia had turned over to Heather a long time ago any monthly SS funds that she was due as JM's minor daughter. I say that only because I see it pretty commonly in cases where there has been the death of a parent when the kids are fairly young and as the kids age I'll be asked if it's okay to have the funds paid directly to the teen as payee. Why else would SWM said "you two pay for the room I paid for the flight" if she believed that HM had no money? Looks like I forgot how to use paragraphs, sorry! Just some musings of mine this morning.
 
gracehatter said:
As far as squad goes kids use that to loosely describe their group of mutual friends, think of the word posse and how that was used back in the day, your close friends that hang out together. The only time I have ever seen it used in an actual organized fashion or manner is with gangbangers or gang activity...which is decidedly different from these 2 middle class raised suburbanites, with 1 that showed signs of being excessively spoiled. I think it's pretty clear from the comments the "squad", if there is actually one which I doubt highly, like most of their peer/age group are horrified. There is a term currently used which is "sugar babies'"....mostly used by young girls (but I did know one male) to describe themselves when they are receiving the attentions of a male or female, usually older in the form of money, expensive gifts, housing, cars and paying for necessaries and so on in return for spending time with the gifter. Some of my clients have used the term and while some have claimed that it doesn't always involve sex, I think the young ladies I have dealt with are in their heads trying to whitewash the fact that this is basically the same age old arrangement of being kept for the purposes of sex and companionship. It's pretty formalized agreement and there is usually an age disparity. I think that the kid that says that on the instagram is using it as slang to infer HM had the money of the two and was using it to fund the fun as it were, not as a term of art. Did Heather use the money to make herself more attractive and did Tommy find that attractive? I'm guessing ultimately yes, of course. We already know there was difference in their respective wealth and while I don't think that was the sole attraction she must have appeared to Tommy to represent one of the "richer" kids in OPRF, with a common racial background, both from single parent households and she in many of her pictures is very cute and well, who doesn't like sex when you are that young? While you see pics from the past of TS in normal age appropriate settings and activities like being dressed up and with girlfriends, and a lot of kids coming forth expressing their disbelief you really aren't seeing that with Heather. To be sure there is an age difference but where is the "bestie", the close girlfriends, the boys she may have dated or hung out with even if she didn't have a steady boyfriend? Where are those kids parents? I think I heard of 1 male that spoke of her but even that sounded very weak, other than that we hear from Sheila's friends and brother...not very flattering either. This may very well again speak to Heather's socialization skills (or lack there of) and you know, no one likes the pain in the *advertiser censored* mean kid. I would love to know why she got kicked out of dance school. I wonder if HM may not have had a lot of those "norms" and maybe TS represented a real "first" relationship for her and she was trying to impress him and get integrated in the downtown Chicago lifestyle. Speaking of HM's money I'll bet right now that Shelia had turned over to Heather a long time ago any monthly SS funds that she was due as JM's minor daughter. I say that only because I see it pretty commonly in cases where there has been the death of a parent when the kids are fairly young and as the kids age I'll be asked if it's okay to have the funds paid directly to the teen as payee. Why else would SWM said "you two pay for the room I paid for the flight" if she believed that HM had no money? Looks like I forgot how to use paragraphs, sorry! Just some musings of mine this morning.
Click to expand...

Interesting observations gracehatter. Can you explain a little more about this SS payment that children can get when one of their parent's dies? We have to assume that HM was getting some money from somewhere and didn't always have to beg her mother for an allowance. Or did she? As far as SWM telling either TS or both of them to pay for the room, I can certainly see her saying that out of anger. But in her mind she knew that wasn't going to happen and that she'd be on the hook for this bill as well. She just wanted to point out what a no good loser TS was to HM I'm sure. I don't think SWM could really see the big picture that it was her daughter that was the no good loser likely stringing him along with big talk and promises. I'm sure there were a lot of words exchanged. We haven't heard what time this argument was, when it ended, where the parties went after it etc. I hope there is CCTV of all those events and it comes out at the trial.

I suppose the 1#up Crew was TS's "squad" but it doesn't appear as though they have much love for HM from the various comments around the internet. Most feel that TS is not capable of this and that he has to be covering for her. So where is her "squad"? Did she have one? We've seen lots of pictures of her with other girls. Did she lose most of her school friends when she moved and just gravitate towards TS's friends when they started dating? I also haven't seen one positive comment about her in any of the comments I've read about this case. It's like whomever were her friends (if she had any) have just moved on and have no interest in what happens to her?

MOO
 
Kamille said:
As far as SWM telling either TS or both of them to pay for the room, I can certainly see her saying that out of anger. But in her mind she knew that wasn't going to happen and that she'd be on the hook for this bill as well. She just wanted to point out what a no good loser TS was to HM I'm sure. I don't think SWM could really see the big picture that it was her daughter that was the no good loser likely stringing him along with big talk and promises. I'm sure there were a lot of words exchanged. We haven't heard what time this argument was, when it ended, where the parties went after it etc. I hope there is CCTV of all those events and it comes out at the trial.
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RSBM

Quoting Kamille: "She just wanted to point out what a no good loser TS was to HM I'm sure."

BBM - I've wondered if that's what happened as well ... if so, sounds like SWM gambled with that approach and lost big time!

In any case, all of the revealed details to date [if true] are sounding like it was premeditated and, as a result of HM & TS's thinking/scheming, SWM's days were most likely numbered. JMHO
 
Kamille said:
Interesting observations gracehatter. Can you explain a little more about this SS payment that children can get when one of their parent's dies? We have to assume that HM was getting some money from somewhere and didn't always have to beg her mother for an allowance. Or did she? As far as SWM telling either TS or both of them to pay for the room, I can certainly see her saying that out of anger. But in her mind she knew that wasn't going to happen and that she'd be on the hook for this bill as well. She just wanted to point out what a no good loser TS was to HM I'm sure. I don't think SWM could really see the big picture that it was her daughter that was the no good loser likely stringing him along with big talk and promises. I'm sure there were a lot of words exchanged. We haven't heard what time this argument was, when it ended, where the parties went after it etc. I hope there is CCTV of all those events and it comes out at the trial.

I suppose the 1#up Crew was TS's "squad" but it doesn't appear as though they have much love for HM from the various comments around the internet. Most feel that TS is not capable of this and that he has to be covering for her. So where is her "squad"? Did she have one? We've seen lots of pictures of her with other girls. Did she lose most of her school friends when she moved and just gravitate towards TS's friends when they started dating? I also haven't seen one positive comment about her in any of the comments I've read about this case. It's like whomever were her friends (if she had any) have just moved on and have no interest in what happens to her?

MOO
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Minor children are entitled to benefits paid out monthly based on their deceased parents lifetime earnings until they are 18 or 19 if they are still in school. Heather would be entitled to a percentage of that (I can't remember what off the top of my head) and it can be considerable. Home schooling would qualify. If a parent wants it to go to the child directly I usually advise it be direct deposited into a joint account so the SS rules are still observed.

We've seen some photos with other girls but not tons compared to other OPRF high school kids. I went FB creeping (don't judge, :blushing: I use it all the time for work and my secretary is a FB creeper extraordinaire) and if you can manage to figure out which are OPRF high school attendees, her social life looks woefully scant...I hate to say this but I'm inclined to think she was not terribly well liked. If my kids were teen friends with her I would be warning them to stay off social media and if they did use it to say something positive or nothing at all. I think the OPRF community has closed ranks for whatever reason, parents telling their kids not to be involved, and so on. But I keep coming back to where are her supporters saying "We know things were rocky between them but to be involved in killing her Mom, no, it's too great a leap" but they are not there. Some of the comments made by the few teens that claim to know her that I saw were brutal. They moved just last year, what month was that? But what about the years before that? The focal point of kids lives are school and the majority of their extra activities stem from that environment, when she dropped out, maybe she lost the few she had. The only activity I've read about has been dance, no sports pics have surfaced, nor any community service types which you usually see published. The only comments I've seen regarding the duration of her relationship with TS had been about 3 months prior to the murder so it would be natural if she did gravitate toward his friends.
 
Are these benefits paid even if the surviving parent has considerable assets?
 
gracehatter said:
[SBM] [BBM] We've seen some photos with other girls but not tons compared to other OPFR high school kids. ... I think the OPFR community has closed ranks for whatever reason, parents telling their kids not to be involved, and so on.
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The high school in question is Oak Park and River Forest High School. You've put the forest before the river! It should be OPRF.

Don't you think it's perfectly understandable that parents may be telling kids not to speak to the media? Heather's peers are very young, and some of her friends (let us hope that they are now actually former friends) may still be minors. I think it would only be fair to say these folks have "closed ranks" if they are refusing to fully assist law enforcement, and we have no idea whether or not that is true.
 
Orange Tabby said:
The high school in question is Oak Park and River Forest High School. You've put the forest before the river! It should be OPRF.

Don't you think it's perfectly understandable that parents may be telling kids not to speak to the media? Heather's peers are very young, and some of her friends (let us hope that they are now actually former friends) may still be minors. I think it would only be fair to say these folks have "closed ranks" if they are refusing to fully assist law enforcement, and we have no idea whether or not that is true.
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Lol, thanks, I'll correct it. I mean have "closed ranks" in a social sense, so no I do not think it is wrong to phrase it that way. Did you follow the Teleka Patrick case? Marvin Sapp was cleared early on in that case, despite LE saying he had co-operated, many people refused to believe it but during the time she was missing you never heard a peep, not a single person from his sizable congregation made any public comment, that's what I mean by "closed ranks". Of course I don't have a problem with parents to say that to their kids either, I would expect them too and pretty much said that. I don't think her peers are "very young" they are most likely legally adults and given that she dropped out after her sophomore year it's unlikely she'd have many friends in the lower class grade kids who would now be 16-17, she'll be 19 Saturday. It would not surprise me if many of them decided they were not going to be vocal or participate about Heather publically and that's what I meant and I did not mean to imply that was a bad thing, they may not want to share what unfavorable things they may know about for self protection (maybe from their own parents) and it is not an uncommon reaction.

In my mind I keep trying to imagine what the last couple of years of SWM and Heather's lives have been like socially and on a day to day basis, which is why I am leaning toward thinking she didn't have a lot of friends.

Kamille, the benefits are based only on the lifetime earnings of the deceased parent, there are no other factors considered except the period may be longer if an offspring is disabled and the spousal benefits are cut off to the widow or widower upon remarriage.
 
Kamille said:
Are these benefits paid even if the surviving parent has considerable assets?
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Yes. Assets are not taken into consideration as it was basically his money anyway (that he paid the government over the years). When my nephew's father passed away, he only had about 3 years left until he turned 18, so the payments were larger (total amount divided by how many months estimated until adulthood). Heather's would not have been as large as her's would have been spread out from the time she was 9 until 18.
 
gracehatter said:
[SBM] I mean have "closed ranks" in a social sense, so no I do not think it is wrong to phrase it that way. ... Of course I don't have a problem with parents to say that to their kids either, I would expect them too and pretty much said that. ... It would not surprise me if many of them decided they were not going to be vocal or participate about Heather publically and that's what I meant and I did not mean to imply that was a bad thing, they may not want to share what unfavorable things they may know about for self protection (maybe from their own parents) and it is not an uncommon reaction.
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I don’t think you can claim that folks have closed ranks even in a social sense, since none of us can have any idea of what these people are openly, perhaps even loudly, saying about Heather at parties, between classes (wherever they might be) at nightclubs, at fashion shows, in phone calls, in text messages, in emails, at the mall, at tailgate barbecues, and so forth. That is, in a true social milieu.

These people may not want their interviews for jobs, scholarships, university admission, internships, entrance to art conservatories, parts in a play and the like – for years or even decades to come – marred by the fact that before the interview is convened they have been Googled and found to have a link to notorious mother murderer Heather Mack. It seems we may agree at least partially on this aspect of the matter.

I expect no one here will judge your FB creeping, but I also expect those who see themselves as potentially to be creeped will have another view. They may have taken measures to protect their privacy, not to protect Heather. They may have merely chosen to keep their remarks from the prying eyes and ears of strangers who have no right and no good reason to be apprised of what they know and how they feel.

If they talk openly to law enforcement but not to the media or the public (including in public spaces like FB), I don’t see that as closing ranks. I see it as invoking their right to privacy. I can respect that.
 
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