GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #3

[SouthAussie]

Good morning SouthAussie :seeya:

It's actually 4:35am when those tweets were made. You better keep reading... :coffeews: :floorlaugh:

MOO

Good morning Kamille. :seeya:

Ohhhh ... this is too weird. I am logged on to Twitter and I still see 1:35pm 11th August. :sigh:

But, having had another coffee and thought about it for a bit, it must be that international tweeters see a default San Fran time for the tweet times of non-local tweets, whereas US users see the real time according to their own time zone. Can you imagine the programming nightmare that Twitter would have if they tried to time-convert all the international locations on all tweets, taking daylight savings everywhere into consideration too?! :scared:

So I can totally see how you guys, very astutely and correctly, arrived at the 4:35am 12th August Bali time.

 

[Quester]

Re: the iron handle/grip from the glass fruit bowl aka "the murder weapon"

So the story as we've been told to date is that there was broken glass in TS' room 616.

At 8:40a TS was seen on CCTV leaving his room 616, hiding the iron handle/grip under his shirt, and on a path toward the M's room 317 and entering the room.

Broken glass is also found in room 317.

The iron handle/grip was found in room 616.
​

* * *

Now why, if the iron handle/grip was the murder weapon, would TS leave it in room 616? Why wouldn't he have taken it with him? Tried to dispose of it somewhere? Placed it in one of the suitcases?

If it was the murder weapon and TS was the assailant, TS would know that his fingerprints and DNA were likely on it along with DNA from the victim. Would he really just leave that smoking gun in his hotel room for LE to find?

 

[Kamille]

Good morning Kamille. :seeya:

Ohhhh ... this is too weird. I am logged on to Twitter and I still see 1:35pm 11th August. :sigh:

But, having had another coffee and thought about it for a bit, it must be that international tweeters see a default San Fran time for the tweet times of non-local tweets, whereas US users see the real time according to their own time zone. Can you imagine the programming nightmare that Twitter would have if they tried to time-convert all the international locations on all tweets, taking daylight savings everywhere into consideration too?! :scared:

So I can totally see how you guys, very astutely and correctly, arrived at the 4:35am 12th August Bali time.

Did you check your settings to see if you are set for your correct time zone? I think South Australia is GMT+10:30 hours?

You should be seeing 6:05am August 12th?

 

[FigTree]

I still can't put my finger on who did it either. Or if Sheila was already dead when TS showed up in the room at 8:40am. The autopsy report would certainly suggest that she was. Didn't it say something like she was deceased 10-12 hours before she was discovered? I calculate that by the time the taxi got to the police station and they opened up the suitcase it must have been around 2-3pm. Sheila would have been dead only 5-6hrs if it happened after 8:40am. You'd think the coroner would be able to tell this? Apparently the coroner thought it must have been longer.

I'd think a coroner would be pretty good at determining time of death with a very recently deceased body, even if it was horrifically mutilated to fit into a suitcase.

MOO

Its a good point Kamille - because the FBI would also have lent a hand in getting the post mortem details in order. I wonder if the approximate time of the murder was reported correctly.
Tommy may have taken the metal handle of the fruitbowl down to the room - but what state was SvM in when he entered the room? Was she already unconscious or dead or incapacitated?

On another note regarding the St Regis post that Tommy exx made - I think the fight that HM & SvWM had at the first hotel earlier was about moving hotels... Of all the Hotels for them to change to - the St Regis was chosen - and I bet that was at HM's suggestion or forceful persuation.
And if so, to me, it points to something else was going on in HM's mind. It would be right up her street to manipulate her mother to move them to the St Regis - for as far as I can see TS may have thought that was were HM & SvWM had been staying. And HM had plans that needed fulfilling - her and TS had something to do at the St Regis.

There is something more behind that move to the St Regis from the other hotel.
And the find of the post by Tommyexx was pure gold.
It makes me more convinced that HM had said or planned something long before they all arrived in Bali.

 

[ajaylee]

HM's legal team might not be as up to the mark as TS's. TS has an American attorney keeping an eye on things from a distance who seems to be at least as savvy as ME. He has someone from 'Reprieve' (anti-death penalty group) who have most likely worked in Bali before.

ME might have encouraged HM to come up with a 'helpful' story so that the court will take it easy on her. I don't know just how true that actually is. Lindsey Sandiford is currently on death row for drugs. She threw other people under the bus immediately, but it didn't save her from the death penalty. One of the Bali Nine, Renae Lawrence, was also willing to name names and throw herself on the mercy of the court. She still got a life sentence, although it has been reduced, I believe, for good behavior.

TS's attorneys may feel that tipping their hand to the blabbermouth police is no guarantee of a 'light' sentence, so they might as well wait until they're actually in the courtroom to start speaking.

 

[SouthAussie]

Actually, for all we know, he isn't taking the fall for her. His camp is completely quiet, so we really don't have a clue what his story is. Considering how much of HM's story was leaked by the police chief (? Utomo), it seems strange that we've heard absolutely nothing from his side from anyone.

I wish we knew more about Bali law. In the US, especially depending on jurisdiction, it might be worth it for HM to try to play a terrified victim who didn't actually do anything except keep her mouth shut. In other jurisdictions, she'd be just as guilty as TS because she 'aided and abetted'. She might get a somewhat shorter sentence, but she'd still go down.

I don't think US law was always like that. I think once upon a time it might have been that the only person who could actually be convicted of murder was the person who pulled the trigger - not, for example, the getaway driver or someone who helped dispose of the body.

It may be that even if HM sticks to her story of not actually being involved in the 'beating' of her mother, of being the helpless pregnant girl terrified of a boyfriend allegedly gone nuts, she'll still be found guilty of murder under Indonesian law.

Personally, I'm inclined to think HM killed her mother and TS got in on the cleanup. If she picked up a heavy glass object like the vase or ashtray and hit her mother directly in the face, the shock and pain of a badly broken nose would have been all it took. I think TS realized, perhaps better than HM, that they were in a very bad situation. I think he expected her to have a better handle on how things work overseas because she'd traveled before, stayed in posh places.

I agree about HM smashing her mother in the face. I would think a 'stranger' would be less personal and hit them over the head or do something else.

And you could be very right about TS making his own defense and keeping it hush-hush until the trial. No point giving HM's lawyers the heads up so they can re-adjust their defense tactics ... and it won't matter till he is in court anyway.

I don't think that the court will look at all kindly on the lies from HM. They want the facts of the crime, and are quite impatient generally with any bulldust that is spun. Schapelle Corby was unable to convince them, through all her tears and wailing and pleas and lawyers, that someone else put 9lbs of cannabis in her personal luggage without her knowledge.

 

[SouthAussie]

Did you check your settings to see if you are set for your correct time zone? I think South Australia is GMT+10:30 hours?

You should be seeing 6:05am August 12th?

Yes, I checked my settings. They are set for my city Adelaide GMT +10:30. And I still see 1:35pm 11th August. So am presuming that we see a default if it is international to us.

 

[Kamille]

Re: the iron handle/grip from the glass fruit bowl aka "the murder weapon"

So the story as we've been told to date is that there was broken glass in TS' room 616.

At 8:40a TS was seen on CCTV leaving his room 616, hiding the iron handle/grip under his shirt, and on a path toward the M's room 317 and entering the room.

Broken glass is also found in room 317.

The iron handle/grip was found in room 616.
​

* * *

Now why, if the iron handle/grip was the murder weapon, would TS leave it in room 616? Why wouldn't he have taken it with him? Tried to dispose of it somewhere? Placed it in one of the suitcases?

If it was the murder weapon and TS was the assailant, TS would know that his fingerprints and DNA were likely on it along with DNA from the victim. Would he really just leave that smoking gun in his hotel room for LE to find?

Not if it wasn't the murder weapon but was used for some other purpose? Like I think it was ajaylee said, breaking in the in room safe or some other function. So if he broke something in his room to get at that handle, perhaps it would have made more sense to leave it in the room with the rest of the broken pieces to make it appear that it never left the room.

Or...he did break something in his room by accident and it has nothing to do with whatever he was hiding under his shirt, nor was it intended to be a weapon or was it "the" weapon that killed SWM. It may just have been the duct tape or some other thing necessary for the clean up that he was hiding under his shirt. If he was hiding anything under his shirt and that is not just a tall tale that needs to be put to rest by Tommy in his statement if he ever gives one.

I still think they're floating stories out there to get TS to start talking. Floating evidence of a premeditated murder that carries a sentence of death should get someone talking if that's not what happened. And as of the last article printed on this matter out of Bali, TS had still not given a statement of what happened. I believe he was supposed to be re-interviewed when he gets that elusive Bali lawyer via his elusive US lawyer.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Yes, I checked my settings. They are set for my city Adelaide GMT +10:30. And I still see 1:35pm 11th August. So am presuming that we see a default if it is international to us.

Must be. Well at least you now know how to figure out those international times. Take it from whatever the time is in SF California at the moment. LOL

 

[SouthAussie]

At one point I did wonder if TS had that handle as a defensive weapon. Not against Sheila. But as something to carry in a country where he felt a little uncomfortable perhaps, a little insecure about muggings or attacks.

I wonder if he typically carried some sort of concealed weapon at home, if he was in a different situation than the norm? Something he obviously could not bring to Bali with him.

 

[gracehatter]

Actually, for all we know, he isn't taking the fall for her. His camp is completely quiet, so we really don't have a clue what his story is. Considering how much of HM's story was leaked by the police chief (? Utomo), it seems strange that we've heard absolutely nothing from his side from anyone.

Personally, I'm inclined to think HM killed her mother and TS got in on the cleanup. If she picked up a heavy glass object like the vase or ashtray and hit her mother directly in the face, the shock and pain of a badly broken nose would have been all it took. I think TS realized, perhaps better than HM, that they were in a very bad situation. I think he expected her to have a better handle on how things work overseas
because she'd traveled before, stayed in posh places.

TS's Mom Kia Walker on his donation page said in her last update (there are only 3) that she had been advised not to make any comment and she stated that she is following that advice. She also said she intends to go see him once the trial begins. I think it is wise, remember the rules of evidence are
much more lax than ours under Bali law and it looks like everything including the kitchen sink comes in.

Ajaylee, I'm firmly in your camp with HM being the killer in the middle of a rage filled fit and I wonder if the broken neck was a blow on the back of her head after the first one knocked her down to the floor.

 

[ajaylee]

HM's legal team might not be as up to the mark as TS's. TS has an American attorney keeping an eye on things from a distance who seems to be at least as savvy as ME. He can't really do much over there (except burn through TS's limited $). TS also has someone from 'Reprieve', an anti-death penalty group who have most likely worked in Bali before. In fact, he definitely seemed peeved when word initially broke that TS had confessed. He said something to the effect of 'maybe I have to go over there'. I think he felt he and the Bali attorney were on the same page about keeping quiet, so he was pretty ticked off when the news made it sound like the local and Reprieve attorneys had completely ignored his advice. As it turned out, of course, they hadn't - the police chief was quoting HM, not TS.

Re: the fruit basket handle. We don't have visuals or autopsy details, but I don't visualize a metal fruit bowl handle as a 'blunt instrument'. A glass vase or a glass ashtray sound more like blunt instruments to me. If the bowl was broken in the upstairs room, glass/metal fragments could have been transferred from one room to the other on shoe soles. However...that doesn't explain the metal fragments from the handle allegedly found on SWM's body, although if the fragments got from TS's room to SWM's room on shoes, SWM's body could possibly have picked up the fragments off the floor.

I am mystified about the room numbers on the passport. If you look closely, it looks like the numbers are on a piece of paper that the passport is lying on top of. Usually when you check in, they take a copy of your passport and return it to you. There should be a passport copy for everyone staying in a particular room.

I'm wondering if when TS checked in, the room was put under HM's name because she told the desk she would be moving to that room. They already had her passport copy on file; they would just have to update it to indicate the new room number.

What do you think?

 

[ajaylee]

I really really hope it doesn't turn out that SWM was still alive and her neck was broken when they were fitting her into the suitcase.

 

[Kamille]

I really really hope it doesn't turn out that SWM was still alive and her neck was broken when they were fitting her into the suitcase.

*Warning... graphic*

Considering the official COD is asphyxiation, I think we can assume that she was already deceased before being put into the suitcase. I remember the description of just such an injury to Stephanie Flores in the Joran Van Der Sloot case. He had hit her in the face/nose with his elbow and caused the same blunt force injury, which also broke her neck. She was "making noises* so he finished her off by putting a shirt around her head and suffocating her I believe. I don't think these two would have been stuffing SWM in a suitcase while she was still making sounds. And if TS didn't kill her, it's possible she was deceased for a while before that was done.

MOO

 

[gracehatter]

I am mystified about the room numbers on the passport. If you look closely, it looks like the numbers are on a piece of paper that the passport is lying on top of. Usually when you check in, they take a copy of
your passport and return it to you. There should be a passport copy for everyone staying in a particular room.

I'm wondering if when TS checked in, the room was put under HM's name because she told the desk she would be moving to that room. They already had her passport copy on file; they would just have to update it to indicate the new room number.
What do you think?

It certainly looks like "317" is crossed out and at first I thought the other writing might be 616 but it looks more like a G...I don't know.

 

[Kamille]

HM's legal team might not be as up to the mark as TS's. TS has an American attorney keeping an eye on things from a distance who seems to be at least as savvy as ME. He can't really do much over there (except burn through TS's limited $). TS also has someone from 'Reprieve', an anti-death penalty group who have most likely worked in Bali before. In fact, he definitely seemed peeved when word initially broke that TS had confessed. He said something to the effect of 'maybe I have to go over there'. I think he felt he and the Bali attorney were on the same page about keeping quiet, so he was pretty ticked off when the news made it sound like the local and Reprieve attorneys had completely ignored his advice. As it turned out, of course, they hadn't - the police chief was quoting HM, not TS.

Re: the fruit basket handle. We don't have visuals or autopsy details, but I don't visualize a metal fruit bowl handle as a 'blunt instrument'. A glass vase or a glass ashtray sound more like blunt instruments to me. If the bowl was broken in the upstairs room, glass/metal fragments could have been transferred from one room to the other on shoe soles. However...that doesn't explain the metal fragments from the handle allegedly found on SWM's body, although if the fragments got from TS's room to SWM's room on shoes, SWM's body could possibly have picked up the fragments off the floor.

I am mystified about the room numbers on the passport. If you look closely, it looks like the numbers are on a piece of paper that the passport is lying on top of. Usually when you check in, they take a copy of your passport and return it to you. There should be a passport copy for everyone staying in a particular room.

I'm wondering if when TS checked in, the room was put under HM's name because she told the desk she would be moving to that room. They already had her passport copy on file; they would just have to update it to indicate the new room number.

What do you think?

The metal handle and metal fragments in the wound is a pretty recent story that has been floated out there. We have no idea if any of it is true. It certainly was never mentioned at the beginning or when the results of the autopsy were released.

At this point, I think HM checked TS and herself into room 616 when he arrived, on SWM's card, likely in the late afternoon/early evening. But just showing the card or using it online to secure the room is one thing. Signing for it on checkout might have been a little more difficult? I think even if they couldn't get their passports, if they had been able to get a checkout voucher to leave the hotel with the suitcases that would have been good enough for them for the time being. But they probably knew they wouldn't be able to sign for SWM so they had told them that she would be down later to take care of it. In fact, they probably had already been to the front desk just to get the passport(s) out of the safe before they headed to the taxi and were told then that they needed to check out. Which is when the receptionist supposedly saw the blood and HM gave her a reasonable explanation. (Still would like to know what the heck that would have been).

But they tried to load the suitcases in the taxi anyway and leave. The taxi driver likely told them they needed the check out slip. That may be the conversation we see them having with him. At that point, they knew they were done and fled through the back leaving the suitcase with SWM in it behind.

MOO

 

[Quester]

If this has been posted before, I missed it.

TS posted a touching tribute to Robin Williams on his death.

He posted in on the 12th, probably from the hotel he and HM checked into after the St. Regis after killing SWM.

I realize it's hard to tell from the limited information we have, but the lack of remorse or upset is shocking. They obviously are so confident, even after being arrested, that HM, at least, doesn't seem to feel a need to even pretend to mourn SWM, while her boyfriend does have the time to post a touching tribute to someone he never even met.

:bump:

Don't remember which site TS posted about RW but could we find it and try to figure out what time Bali time/date it was posted so I can also add it to the timeline? TIA

 

[Kamille]

It certainly looks like "317" is crossed out and at first I thought the other writing might be 616 but it looks more like a G...I don't know.

It is hard to tell if that's what they were writing. Here is the original video that screen cap came from if anyone can get a clearer look. It is also the one that shows them getting busted in that second hotel and HM saying "he was supposed to take us to the US embassy" for those who may have missed it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Qtfl79JBk

 

[SouthAussie]

Another thing I’ll put out there … was HM a sometimes a run-away girl when she fought with Sheila and tried to get her own way? “Well I’ll just run and hide and let you worry about where I am.”

Just thinking about the police reports from Oak Park saying that she sometimes ran away, and the fact that Sheila hadn’t seen her for ‘some time’ before going to Bali and had to track her down, and the 4 hours she went missing in Bali, and the lack of reporting on HM’s movements after the lobby argument, and Sheila in the lobby at such a late hour of the night, and Tommy’s 4:30am tweets.

 

[Kamille]

:bump:

Don't remember which site TS posted about RW but could we find it and try to figure out what time Bali time/date it was posted so I can also add it to the timeline? TIA

This is an Australian website. They have the screen cap as of August 12th and it was on his facebook. It is quite possible that if someone in Australia took the screen cap, that it actually was August 12th in Bali when he posted this. I would have to assume that this was also before 8:40am on that date as it is the last thing we've found that he posted. I can't imagine that he posted this after 8:40am.

http://www.news.com.au/world/heathe...la-von-wiesemack/story-fndir2ev-1227025862736