GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #5
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I believe it is enough to move HM to a predeceased status. In the predeceased status, HM would be treated as if she had died prior to SWM. IF HM Purchased TS's ticket to Bali, planning to have SWM killed - than I find it a fine example of "causing" the death of SWM.
This gets tricky in the case of Stella though, because if HM is ruled predeceased, Stella does not exist (yet). But Stella is here, and it can sway the other way. The major problem I have is Stella being the pawn. As long as she is a Minor, Trust being moved to her as next Beneficiary, then whomever is her Custodial Parent (HM currently 2 yrs) or then Guardian can tap into Stella's trust. This I have major issue with. HM can hunt Stella down upon release and again, tap into Stella's Trust. I wish Illinois had something in place like Maryland(?), where no one in that direct descending bloodline per si can inherit.
HM & TS behavior after sentencing made me sick, maybe the court gets the idea now?
I felt only a bit better when the Prosecution vowed to Appeal. HM & TS are clueless of the repercussions of their actions. They were spared the Firing Squad, in their gratitude, HM calls the Prosecutor a Fat *advertiser censored**, drinks smuggled in alcohol, TS finally displays his true temperament .... All the while neither are considering how much it could have bearing on their Appeal.
I am still staying with the idea that Stella's identity should be wiped clean and she is given a fresh new start at a healthier life.
Just my thoughts
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=075500050K2-6
This gets tricky in the case of Stella though, because if HM is ruled predeceased, Stella does not exist (yet). But Stella is here, and it can sway the other way. The major problem I have is Stella being the pawn. As long as she is a Minor, Trust being moved to her as next Beneficiary, then whomever is her Custodial Parent (HM currently 2 yrs) or then Guardian can tap into Stella's trust. This I have major issue with. HM can hunt Stella down upon release and again, tap into Stella's Trust. I wish Illinois had something in place like Maryland(?), where no one in that direct descending bloodline per si can inherit.
HM & TS behavior after sentencing made me sick, maybe the court gets the idea now?
I felt only a bit better when the Prosecution vowed to Appeal. HM & TS are clueless of the repercussions of their actions. They were spared the Firing Squad, in their gratitude, HM calls the Prosecutor a Fat *advertiser censored**, drinks smuggled in alcohol, TS finally displays his true temperament .... All the while neither are considering how much it could have bearing on their Appeal.
I am still staying with the idea that Stella's identity should be wiped clean and she is given a fresh new start at a healthier life.
Just my thoughts
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=075500050K2-6
gracehatter
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I believe it is enough to move HM to a predeceased status. In the predeceased status, HM would be treated as if she had died prior to SWM. IF HM Purchased TS's ticket to Bali, planning to have SWM killed - than I find it a fine example of "causing" the death of SWM.
This gets tricky in the case of Stella though, because if HM is ruled predeceased, Stella does not exist (yet). But Stella is here, and it can sway the other way. The major problem I have is Stella being the pawn. As long as she is a Minor, Trust being moved to her as next Beneficiary, then whomever is her Custodial Parent (HM currently 2 yrs) or then Guardian can tap into Stella's trust. This I have major issue with. HM can hunt Stella down upon release and again, tap into Stella's Trust. I wish Illinois had something in place like Maryland(?), where no one in that direct descending bloodline per si can inherit.
I am still staying with the idea that Stella's identity should be wiped clean and she is given a fresh new start at a healthier life.
Just my thoughts
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=075500050K2-6
Exactly my fears, thank you, very well stated Bugbear...Ill. law is just so damned murky on this point!! Also, Bugbear who do you think has jurisdiction over Stella right now as things stand?
Ooooo Can this Law also be invoked? :thinking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Sam_law
A Son of Sam law is any law designed to keep criminals from profiting from the publicity of their crimes, often by selling their stories to publishers. While the term is most often used in the United States, it is also sometimes applied to laws passed with similar provisions in other nations.
Son of Sam laws are designed so that criminals are unable to take advantage of the notoriety of their crimes. Such laws often authorize the state to seize money earned from deals such as book/movie biographies and paid interviews and use it to compensate the criminal's victims.
http://scholarship.law.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1855&context=lawreview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Sam_law
A Son of Sam law is any law designed to keep criminals from profiting from the publicity of their crimes, often by selling their stories to publishers. While the term is most often used in the United States, it is also sometimes applied to laws passed with similar provisions in other nations.
Son of Sam laws are designed so that criminals are unable to take advantage of the notoriety of their crimes. Such laws often authorize the state to seize money earned from deals such as book/movie biographies and paid interviews and use it to compensate the criminal's victims.
http://scholarship.law.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1855&context=lawreview
gracehatter
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I've only seen it applied in respect to publications/interviews in the US so I don't think HM or TS can profit here off their own versions of the murder.
HM does at the moment, until HM signs Guardianship/Conservatorship/Custody over, is deemed incompetent to care for Stella, or the 2 Years is up then Bali forces Stella into their Foster system. Stella has dual citizenship last I knew, and since she is in Bali, she falls under Bali's jurisdiction. HM will probably have to find a Bali Lawyer to handle Stella's care in Bali. (lost the name of that Bali Lawyer who handles Child Services, one of the first two appointed to HM)
I seriously doubt HM will allow Stella to enter into Foster care. Willing to bet HM & Team will find a suitable Guardian to insure herself visitation, Attorney Fees, bidding for lesser time served on future appeals etc. Stella has a great use over the next few years. Just my thoughts.
Well, I should say only useful IF Stella is awarded the Estate/Trust.
gracehatter
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Thank you. That is what I thought too. Because for me anyway, that is the answer in a nutshell to the question posed numerous times by others upthread "Why doesn't the US or some agency step in on Stella's behalf?" They can't, for all intents and purposes regardless of how much it bothers people that the baby is in prison, she is not considered at risk and is being cared for by her rightful parent.
Weezer Fan
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It may not have to be that Stella is awarded the trust. Stella adds a complication to this whole mess, and it could very well take several years to get it straightened out. During that time, HM's lawyers will make sure they, (HM and Stella by default) benefit.
I think the money will all go to Attorney fees anyway. According to the Chicago Tribune, $300k has already gone, PLUS the $150k Cohen approved. It was said the trust was worth $1.5M in the beginning. So about $500k is more than likely already gone, and I bet there are more bills coming.
It makes HM's life more comfortable than it should be. It also got her a reduced sentence. However, even if she gets out of prison in five years, I don't think there will be any money left for her to live on.
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The move to shift some of the trust to Stella is clever. I think it's a blatant attempt to circumvent the 'slayer rule' - and to enable Favia to get paid by her 'client', Stella. However, I wonder if it's legal. Remember, Favia is the same attorney who tried to get her client's bills paid for from HM's trust. I don't see why such a move wouldn't still be subject to the trustee's approval. Otherwise, anyone could circumvent restrictions on an age-limited trust by shifting the money to a third party.
It really doesn't matter if the court - prosecutor and judges - witness HM and TS acting up. They have all been generously paid to look the other way. The most that might happen (and I hope it does) is for Edy to take a hard-line against any appeals. If he does, it won't be about justice - it will be to make HM pay dearly for calling him names.
I do wonder...all of these sneaky moves regarding the trust apparently had to be accomplished by a nine-month deadline. I wonder if that had anything to do with HM wanting to get out of court - stalling for time? When she called Edy a '*advertiser censored* *advertiser censored****', she was angry because he denied her another trip to the hospital, which would have delayed court proceedings by another week. Perhaps Favia told her to stall for time.
Poor Kia. If she really stands by her son, she'd tell him he's a fool to cover for HM. Unfortunately, she's got to make nice with HM if she stands any chance of getting her hands on Stella and $$$.
I wonder what's next. HM seems to have known what the likely verdict was and, judging by her celebration, it must have been better than she hoped. Using it as a starting point for an appeal, perhaps she thinks she's going to get off with even less time in her semi-private cell. Judging by his reaction, I think TS expected a better 'deal' - perhaps he naively hoped, as he rubbed his Rachel bracelet for good luck, that he'd get off 'not guilty'. I think it's just starting to hit him: he's going to be there for quite a while, and it's unlikely that Kia or HM will be hanging around visiting him for years - and he's unlikely to be getting a semi-private cell, either. Heck, he's not even getting a cellphone. I hope his real mental suffering is just beginning, and I hope he gets upset enough to lash out at a fellow inmate - someone more capable of defending himself than a helpless, half-asleep 62-year-old woman half his size.
Quick reckoning on $: $150K for Elkin, $150K for Soenardi, $126K for Favia, $100K for Scifo. That's not including trustee's fees and any additional attorney fees if HM decides to appeal.
It really doesn't matter if the court - prosecutor and judges - witness HM and TS acting up. They have all been generously paid to look the other way. The most that might happen (and I hope it does) is for Edy to take a hard-line against any appeals. If he does, it won't be about justice - it will be to make HM pay dearly for calling him names.
I do wonder...all of these sneaky moves regarding the trust apparently had to be accomplished by a nine-month deadline. I wonder if that had anything to do with HM wanting to get out of court - stalling for time? When she called Edy a '*advertiser censored* *advertiser censored****', she was angry because he denied her another trip to the hospital, which would have delayed court proceedings by another week. Perhaps Favia told her to stall for time.
Poor Kia. If she really stands by her son, she'd tell him he's a fool to cover for HM. Unfortunately, she's got to make nice with HM if she stands any chance of getting her hands on Stella and $$$.
I wonder what's next. HM seems to have known what the likely verdict was and, judging by her celebration, it must have been better than she hoped. Using it as a starting point for an appeal, perhaps she thinks she's going to get off with even less time in her semi-private cell. Judging by his reaction, I think TS expected a better 'deal' - perhaps he naively hoped, as he rubbed his Rachel bracelet for good luck, that he'd get off 'not guilty'. I think it's just starting to hit him: he's going to be there for quite a while, and it's unlikely that Kia or HM will be hanging around visiting him for years - and he's unlikely to be getting a semi-private cell, either. Heck, he's not even getting a cellphone. I hope his real mental suffering is just beginning, and I hope he gets upset enough to lash out at a fellow inmate - someone more capable of defending himself than a helpless, half-asleep 62-year-old woman half his size.
Quick reckoning on $: $150K for Elkin, $150K for Soenardi, $126K for Favia, $100K for Scifo. That's not including trustee's fees and any additional attorney fees if HM decides to appeal.
Kamille
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My understanding is that being born in the country with foreign parents does not grant you citizenship in Indonesia. She is a 100 percent US citizen AFAIK.
Kamille
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I think the approx $300,000 quoted in attorney fees includes the fee paid to Soenardi. I believe it started with the estate valued at approx 1.56 million and I believe that figure was adjusted in the last reports of giving 30 percent over to Stella at 1.3 million.
And any fees her attorneys are claiming are going to include funds that will be filtered to HM. Otherwise, why would she continue to retain them? As long as the money is flowing to her, she doesn't care what the attorneys are taking for themselves. Shows her immaturity and consideration for only her immediate wants and needs.
MOO
Kamille
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Pretty sure he's getting the perks and has a cell phone. I'm sure they spend all their time talking and texting to each other on it. He just doesn't flaunt it (although no one bothers to take pics of him) in the holding cell and he doesn't call US publications.
MOO
Sorry, had only a quick peek (work gets in the way lol) Here is where it was stated Stella's Citizenship, I thought I saw it again in a recent article but have since lost it.
Asked if she had made plans for the baby's adoption should the murder case go against her, Miss Mack said the baby would be staying in Indonesia, although she declined to say under what circumstances.
Baby Stella, who will be born in a prison hospital, will automatically become a joint Indonesian-US citizen but just who will become her adoptive parents or guardians should her mother still be behind bars has not been publicly disclosed.
There are adoption agencies in Indonesia who would be available for the child and there are also friends and relatives of Miss Mack in the US who could be considered - particularly as a US legal team has already approached the teenager to look after baby Stella's interests.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ellmates-reveals-misses-jailed-boyfriend.html
OK, here's my pet peeve with all of the media reports.
Why do they keep repeating the HM/TS account of what happened in that room without question or comment?
We will likely never know exactly what was said and done, but not a single media account points out that SWM allegedly threatened to kill the unborn baby and used the 'N' word. Not one media account points out that we are getting one very biased side of the story. The disgraceful slurs on SWM's character are allowed to stand unchallenged and unquestioned.
I don't expect anything else from the 'bought and paid for' trial, but it would be nice if someone in the US media would emphasize how many times the murderers' stories changed and how unlikely it is that SWM behaved the way she is alleged to have behaved.
SWM tried to strangle a young man twice her size and a foot taller? Really? The same SWM who was incapable of physically defending herself from her own daughter's physical attacks?
First and foremost, this is about SWM, an innocent woman brutally murdered by her own daughter and her daughter's punk sidekick. The abuse of her corpse would be enough to get time in jail in the US.
Why do they keep repeating the HM/TS account of what happened in that room without question or comment?
We will likely never know exactly what was said and done, but not a single media account points out that SWM allegedly threatened to kill the unborn baby and used the 'N' word. Not one media account points out that we are getting one very biased side of the story. The disgraceful slurs on SWM's character are allowed to stand unchallenged and unquestioned.
I don't expect anything else from the 'bought and paid for' trial, but it would be nice if someone in the US media would emphasize how many times the murderers' stories changed and how unlikely it is that SWM behaved the way she is alleged to have behaved.
SWM tried to strangle a young man twice her size and a foot taller? Really? The same SWM who was incapable of physically defending herself from her own daughter's physical attacks?
First and foremost, this is about SWM, an innocent woman brutally murdered by her own daughter and her daughter's punk sidekick. The abuse of her corpse would be enough to get time in jail in the US.
Kamille
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Who would have thought The Daily Mail would make assumptions? Lol
From my research I believe that a mixed child where one parent is a foreigner and one is an Indonesian citizen may obtain dual citizenship (it's not automatic) and once they turn 18 they must decide which citizenship to take and relinquish the other.
As Stella does not fall under that, she would require a visitor's visa constantly renewed to stay on after the 2 years. Even now, I don't know how she is being permitted to stay considering she holds no US passport. Or maybe she does. Perhaps the US consulate there has been working on these details?
MOO
Kamille
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Until and unless Sheila's family take a more proactive role with the media and start issuing cease and desist orders for erroneous information being perpetuated, there is no reason for publications to fact check and correctly report any of this IMO. They are just picking up info from news wires. And Sheila's family does not have the unlimited resources that HM does apparently, to pay for attorneys to help them with all this. I'm sure they are already struggling to pay for the attorney they are using in the chancery court. It's been said that Sheila came from a wealthy family but I've seen no evidence of this. And they are the only people who can speak up on behalf of the actual victim in this tragedy.
Now that TS at least has been convicted of premeditated murder (that we think but don't know due to the same bad press sources) it can be said that the court did not accept his version of events and that they do not believe that Sheila did the things that are being reported. Or did they? The confusion over the entire trial, which does not have transcripts or in camera video, will perpetuate for years to come I'm afraid.
MOO
You're right, Kamille, but I still think if the media was fair and balanced, both sides would get equal attention.
I'm also disgusted that no one in the media calls Favia out on her lies. HM was never going to deliver her baby in her cell, if HM isn't eating a healthy diet, it's her choice. No one makes her order fast food and chug alcohol while she's breast-feeding, and it is her decision, 100%, to keep Stella in prison. Favia keeps bleating on like Stella is in a refugee camp, playing on US ignorance of Indonesia and Kerobokan. Someone in the media should point out that if money is all it takes, why isn't Stella in better circumstances right now? What did Favia do to earn her $126K working for Stella?
OT, but IIRC, we only have a week to wait: do you think HM and TS will appeal their sentences? What will Soenardi advise?
Julian Ponder wasn't happy with his sentence, but Soenardi advised him to take it. The prosecutors only asked for a 7-year sentence, the charge carried a minimum five years, and Ponder got six years.
I'm also disgusted that no one in the media calls Favia out on her lies. HM was never going to deliver her baby in her cell, if HM isn't eating a healthy diet, it's her choice. No one makes her order fast food and chug alcohol while she's breast-feeding, and it is her decision, 100%, to keep Stella in prison. Favia keeps bleating on like Stella is in a refugee camp, playing on US ignorance of Indonesia and Kerobokan. Someone in the media should point out that if money is all it takes, why isn't Stella in better circumstances right now? What did Favia do to earn her $126K working for Stella?
OT, but IIRC, we only have a week to wait: do you think HM and TS will appeal their sentences? What will Soenardi advise?
Julian Ponder wasn't happy with his sentence, but Soenardi advised him to take it. The prosecutors only asked for a 7-year sentence, the charge carried a minimum five years, and Ponder got six years.
Hiandmighty
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I wonder if Kia is back home working to try and get custody. I hope they do give them a family suite so that TS will be stuck in there with her and she can order him around and it will be neverending.
Kamille
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I thought I read up thread somewhere that Kia is still in Bali? I think it was that radio interview with that reporter Christy G? The one with the direct line to HM right there in her prison cell.
:dunno:
Okay I listened to the interview that Weezer Fan posted and she did say that Kia was there. Not sure if she is correct that Kia is/was there at the time of this interview. She was not seen in any of the pics from court.
http://wgnradio.com/2015/04/21/heat...my-schaefer-sentenced-to-prison-in-indonesia/
Hiandmighty
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Ah, maybe so. Ive been busy for a few days so I haven't kept up.
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