GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #5

[SwampMama]

Hopefully a doctor will step up and say that Stella requires a more suitable environment that a swampy hot jail cell. But then again, nothing in Bali seems to make sense.

 

[FormerOakParker]

Sounds like HM is playing a deadly game with Stella.

Either there's no legal framework or no one wants to tackle removing Stella from HM's custody. The prison clinic may be referring Stella to the hospital just to get out of dealing with HM and her shenanigans.

I wonder if HM was allowed to stay in the clinic with Stella - or if she will be allowed to accompany Stella to the outside private hospital. As I noted earlier, after two days of 'mothering', I'm sure HM is ready for another break.

I think HM is capable of Munchausen syndrome by proxy, which means Stella could be in more danger than I originally thought. But how does anyone prove anything about a psychopath?
Munchausen syndrome by proxy is a mental illness and a form of child abuse. The caretaker of a child, usually a mother, either makes up fake symptoms or causes real symptoms to make it look like the child is sick.

 

[whatthewhaat]

I think HM is capable of Munchausen syndrome by proxy, which means Stella could be in more danger than I originally thought. But how does anyone prove anything about a psychopath?
Munchausen syndrome by proxy is a mental illness and a form of child abuse. The caretaker of a child, usually a mother, either makes up fake symptoms or causes real symptoms to make it look like the child is sick.

I was thinking the exact same thing... High risk for PPD and/or Münchhausen by proxy seems to me. Especially since she now sees how easy it is to get out of court dates

 

[Kamille]

Why would she want to get out of court dates though? Pretty sure she feels she's got this thing covered and she'll be out of jail and staying with her "good Samaritans" to visit with Tommy as soon as this case winds up.

However if the baby being ill means she gets to head back to the air conditioned private hospital room, I can sure see MBP being a real risk.

MOO

 

[FormerOakParker]

Why would she want to get out of court dates though? Pretty sure she feels she's got this thing covered and she'll be out of jail and staying with her "good Samaritans" to visit with Tommy as soon as this case winds up.

However if the baby being ill means she gets to head back to the air conditioned private hospital room, I can sure see MBP being a real risk.

MOO

I think she will use the baby and/or anyone she can to get whatever she wants. What's most worrisome to me is that HM tends to also discard/destroy whomever gets in her way or no longer serves her needs. I wonder how HM will handle it the first time Stella has a tantrum or otherwise defies her. Gives me chills.

 

[Bugbear]

I am waiting on these Lawyers now to make their statements on the concern/welfare of innocent Stella. How caring of a Mother HM has been, and the injustice served to HM & her new family.

I also think each trip to clinic or hospital "may" bring HM & TS together. To a manipulator, it is a viable reason to use a child. Have the Prosecution & Judges after watching all this, grown more sympathetic? That is the impression I am getting.

 

[ajaylee]

HM and her attorneys, with the complicity of the media, are being alarmingly successful at changing the narrative fro 'teen couple plots and excutes the cold-blooded murder of HM's mother to get her inheritance' to 'star-crossed teen lovers just want to be together with their baby'.

HM wants the image of her and Stella together to be burned in the public's mind, as though she and TS are the innocent victims of cruel fate. By using Stella as a shield, she hopes people will back off on punishing her because doing so involves punishing Stella.

I am still pinning my hopes on a trial in the US. One thing about a trial here: she might not be able to get bail because I think a decent attorney could make the argument that she's a flight risk. If she's locked up, she will have to surrender the child to someone.

 

[Kamille]

I am waiting on these Lawyers now to make their statements on the concern/welfare of innocent Stella. How caring of a Mother HM has been, and the injustice served to HM & her new family.

I also think each trip to clinic or hospital "may" bring HM & TS together. To a manipulator, it is a viable reason to use a child. Have the Prosecution & Judges after watching all this, grown more sympathetic? That is the impression I am getting.

Or they want the people of Bali to be more sympathetic so that the ridiculous verdict that is likely to come does not outrage them. Well actually I'm pretty sure other than the odd person who sells photos to foreign news services, and the few crime watchers who comment on the scarce news stories, no one will even notice how this case ends and what the verdict is.

MOO

 

[Curious Me]

There's this woman on trial for shooting her husband who decided to get pregnant via in-vitro fertilization. Don't know yet whose sperm she used. It got her retrial stalled for now. So selfish!

Using a pregnancy or a baby for some kind of gain is despicable and anyone in the legal or justice field should be more aware of these kinds of manipulations and not be moved to have more sympathy for the criminal. Let's remember the crime because Heather and Tommy are definitely criminals.

:cow:

 

[SouthAussie]

I looked last night for the case of the woman with a 7 month old baby in Kerobokan jail. My hopes for them removing Stella from the prison sadly diminished even further once I read about that case.

This 21 year old woman, Nurhalimah, was 4 months pregnant, her 52 year old husband worked away and lived away while working, she beat her 4 year old stepson badly, took off and left him, neighbours found him and took him to hospital where he later died.

She was arrested and jailed, and went on to deliver the baby who resides with her in prison. Can't find anything else about her court case and what has happened since then.

http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/news/woman-arrested-bali-brutal-murder-stepson-4/

 

[Kamille]

I looked last night for the case of the woman with a 7 month old baby in Kerobokan jail. My hopes for them removing Stella from the prison sadly diminished even further once I read about that case.

This 21 year old woman, Nurhalimah, was 4 months pregnant, her 52 year old husband worked away and lived away while working, she beat her 4 year old stepson badly, took off and left him, neighbours found him and took him to hospital where he later died.

She was arrested and jailed, and went on to deliver the baby who resides with her in prison. Can't find anything else about her court case and what has happened since then.

http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/news/woman-arrested-bali-brutal-murder-stepson-4/

I do believe those articles about HM that referenced this woman indicated that she is CONVICTED of killing her stepson so it appears that she is serving her sentence. What I can't find is what her sentence is. Doubt it's the death penalty though.

And yeah...if they don't have a problem with this woman raising a child in prison, they sure aren't going to have a problem with HM raising one. What I can't understand is how the father of the child is letting her keep the child in prison after killing his other child.

Not much respect for human life in that country IMO.

MOO

 

[Hiandmighty]

Baby going back to hospital. Photos this time.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3014140/Alleged-murderer-Heather-Mack-19-takes-jaundiced-baby-hospital-amid-claims-infant-looked-dirty-neglected.html


Keywords: lack of maternal instinct. Baby dirty.

 

[thistle]

Why is this not surprising?

 

[FigTree]

Thanks for the link hiandmighty...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mid-claims-infant-looked-dirty-neglected.html

Improper treatment: Doctors are reported to have been shocked at the lack of motherly attention shown to baby Stella and a prison source said medical staff were appalled at the baby's dirty condition


'The mother appears not to have been washing her properly, if at all, ' the source told Dailymail.com exclusively.
It is understood there are concerns that because the baby has not been kept clean the area where the umbilical cord was cut might become infected.
'The baby's high fever is more of a concern than the jaundice,' said the source.

You guys may well be right - MBP - HM's way.
I am wondering how accurate the report is.
There are other women in the cells with HM - is no one saying anything?
Where are the volunteers - the child's legal representative - or children's advocates?

HM has no training to be a mother - she cannot look after herself let alone an infant in prison with any decent maternal instinct - she is too narcissistic to do that.

Or is this another attempt to use the baby to get time out of Prison?
I certainly hope not - but I cant dismiss the thought that this maybe another ploy.

God help Stella.

 

[ajaylee]

I wondered about this - bathing the baby. HM generally manages to clean up well - she looked freshly bathed and hair washed in the photos of her going to the hospital. IIRC, the 'bathing' facilities are a bucket and a spigot. It's going to be a challenge to wash an infant (always a challenge anyway) in those circumstances. HM's young and healthy, but a week after a c-section, you're still a little tired and slow, and I imagine balancing a baby and trying to wash her from a bucket are not easy.

HM's cellmates? Well, I recall footage of her in her cell supposedly talking fluent Indonesian and giggling with her cellmates. I wasn't sure what the point of that was - thumbing her nose at the public and letting them know that prison wasn't getting her down was a good idea?

At any rate, I don't believe her Indonesian is 'fluent', we don't know if all of her cellmates have had kids. Her general arrogance and sense of entitlement may have also put her cellmates off. They may be wondering why she's not taking proper care of the baby, but they're not necessarily going to try to make suggestions - assuming they speak English and assuming HM would listen.

I don't know how many folks here have been in the kind of humidity and heat you experience in places like Bali. I cringed when I saw HM with that 'shawl' over Stella's face. It is almost certainly cheap rayon, doesn't breathe. That poor kid would have felt like she was in a sauna, but HM's ignorance and playing the role of paparazzi celebrity were more important than baby Stella's comfort or health.

Personally, I don't think Kia Walker should have anything to do with Stella. First, I think she's more interested in the $$ than in Stella, and secondly, it isn't appropriate for the mother of the killer to raise the child. It encourages keeping the connection between Stella and TS alive and I don't think that's in Stella's best interests. She certainly should, IMHO, be removed and a guardian appointed, but I doubt that will happen in Indonesia.

 

[SouthAussie]

Noor Ellis is in the same cell as HM. Noor has two healthy sons ... she should know what a baby needs to be healthy. Not that we have any evidence that Heather actually listens to anyone else. And, of course, we know that Noor had maids ... they could have played a big part in caring for her sons ... Noor herself may have been a hands-off mother. She seems to be a master manipulator too.


"Mack has been placed with the baby in a cell with seven other female prisoners. One cell mate is Julaikah Noor Aini, or Noor Ellis, who is suspected of murdering her Australian husband Bob Ellis."

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...n-with-newborn-baby.html#sthash.Rh40SGmF.dpuf

 

[SouthAussie]

HM's engagement string is gone! I noticed that she has been wearing her new rubber band bracelet since she walked out of the hospital after giving birth.
Maybe Kia had a good laugh at the engagement string.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mid-claims-infant-looked-dirty-neglected.html

 

[Bugbear]

:gaah: Fine you have a bucket to wash, I am sure her outside friends could have brought in bottled water, let alone some baby wipes. There is no excuse IMO. Bali's Child Welfare has to look into this at some point I would think.

"Bali hospital for second time as fears grow over lack of maternal instinct"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mid-claims-infant-looked-dirty-neglected.html

 

[ajaylee]

:gaah: Fine you have a bucket to wash, I am sure her outside friends could have brought in bottled water, let alone some baby wipes. There is no excuse IMO. Bali's Child Welfare has to look into this at some point I would think.

"Bali hospital for second time as fears grow over lack of maternal instinct"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mid-claims-infant-looked-dirty-neglected.html

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending HM! I'm pointing out the inconvenience. HM is clearly putting up with it for herself - she looked freshly showered and hair washed on the way to the hospital. That doesn't mean she will inconvenience herself for Stella.

Re: her cellmates. As SouthAussie pointed out, Noor Ellis had two kids, although we don't know how much hands-on involvement she had. However...you've got a group of women in a crowded, hot, humid, uncomfortable cell. Somebody's always PMS-ing. Bonds are under stress and there's no room for two queen bees in one cell. Noor Ellis, like HM, is self-centered rich narcissist. But she's also Indonesian, speaks the language. I just don't see her getting her hands 'dirty' playing nursemaid to an ungrateful, lazy, self-centered rich foreign female.

It's like watching a train wreck. Sadly, even in the US it could be a time-consuming process to try to declare a wealthy woman an unfit mother. In the meantime, the child suffers.

 

[whatthewhaat]

Personally, I don't think Kia Walker should have anything to do with Stella. First, I think she's more interested in the $$ than in Stella, and secondly, it isn't appropriate for the mother of the killer to raise the child. It encourages keeping the connection between Stella and TS alive and I don't think that's in Stella's best interests. She certainly should, IMHO, be removed and a guardian appointed, but I doubt that will happen in Indonesia.

Just wondering, has there been any indication that KW is money motivated? Regardless, I don't think she should have Stella either, but I would rather see her with Kia than with HM. Jmo