GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #5

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It comes after furious prison officials vowed to get to the bottom of how Mack had used contraband to upload a video and threatened to strip her of her annual sentence remissions as punishment. Phones and the internet are banned in the jail. But under questioning by officials Mack denied uploading the video.

When prison officials sought to bring her and Schaefer together in one room for what is known as a confrontation of their conflicting versions the pair refused to meet each other face-to-face.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/su...e/news-story/dceffab44b9777d286f42e3ce77edf7f
 
Interesting that they didn't want to meet face to face.

Were they still together back in June 2016? I thought not. And why would a confession have helped her court case back then? I don't believe this but why wouldn't TS confront her on her lies in front of prison officials? :waitasec:
 
Do we think it's safe to assume that the slayer statute issue has been resolved and HM has lost?


SBM

I don't think it's been resolved because:

1. The Bibbs plea isn't legally binding on Heather. I don't believe the Bibbs evidence can be used against Heather without her having a chance to defend herself against it. So even though it is mighty powerful evidence, surely we would know if Sheila's family had somehow managed to get it into evidence in the Chicago proceedings concerning Heather.

2. I know the Chicago reporters haven't been great, but I'm sure they must do cursory phone follow-ups with a few of the principals after court sessions. If the translated document from Bali which indicates precisely what Heather was found guilty of in Indonesia is in the Chicago record, I think the reporters (one at least) would include the full text in a story. Or has it been published and I missed it? That verdict document will be crucial (I think) because if it's not legally sufficient for an adverse ruling against Heather on the Slayer Statute then William Wiese would probably have to initiate a civil suit.
 
I hope TS isn't still stupid enough to get pulled back into her web. His mother better give him a good talking to. We know he has Internet access so he better be getting some good advice.


Does anyone know:

--The date Heather last posted something publicly on any platform before the confession videos?

--Ditto for Tommy.

I've been gone for so long, I wonder if someone is still keeping a timeline of these sorts of things. I forget where such timelines are kept.
 
This mother was murdered for money. This among others bring the reason for boiler plate language in trusts and wills, if any parent is harmed physically, or any abuse by their off spring you get nothing $0.


I couldn't agree with you more, nightwatch. A few years back, in these pages, we talked about some cases where, to add insult to murder, the defendants got their defense attorney fees paid for by the estate of their victims. Heather isn't the first monster to get away with that aspect of things.

The really sad thing is that a client can have boilerplate removed, if she instructs her attorney thus. And Sheila was so hopeful concerning Heather up to nearly the very end. She might have felt, oh those days of battery and attacks are over, I must not jeopardize Heather's inheritance by letting those past instances cost her an inheritance. Sheila was an optimist blinded by a mother's love who couldn't accept that her daughter could never be redeemed.
 
Wow.

This does actually make sense to me (that HM didn't release the videos herself).

I had questioned the way the videos were released - I didn't understand why she would use Youtube instead of one of her lawyers or People or Gutkowski.

I also think her access - and inmate access - to phones and internet has dropped a lot since the crackdown I find it believable that Mack would go ballistic if she's getting blamed and shaken down for something she actually didn't do.

The timing still makes zero sense to me. Why on earth wait until Bibbs had taken a plea bargain?
 
Interesting and strange. We now have at least two theories to explain Heather's videos. I suggested a few days ago what I'll call the Sly Heather theory, where I accepted as fact that Heather voluntarily made the videos. I put forward two reasons:

1. To use the Slayer Statute against her mother (her dastardly claim that Sheila murdered James) so that Heather can still claim her mother's estate in spite of her Bali conviction.

2. To preclude a future US conspiracy trial and conviction.

But now we have another explanation, put forward by Heather's lawyer(s) claiming the videos were made under coercion by Tommy. I'll call this the Tommy Pressure theory. I think this theory implies two motivations:

1. Immediate goal: save Bibbs from a federal murder conspiracy conviction.

2. Long term goal: save Tommy from a federal conviction after he is released from Kerobokan.

Evidence for the Tommy Pressure theory:

--If the video really was made a year ago, then the immediate motivation would have been an attempt to help Bibbs. Under the Sly Heather theory, why now? But I think if she's ever going to put the "Sheila killed James" idea before Judge Cohen she has to do it soon. So this argument works both ways.

--The Sly Heather theory doesn't readily explain certain elements of the confession. All the "I'm sorry you'll never get a job and that you'll be seen as a crazy killer" stuff isn't needed for her to achieve the two results I outlined above. She goes beyond that in an attempt to seriously rehabilitate Tommy. What interest does Heather have in that? It does give Tommy something to hang onto, and gives his mother (who presumably will believe anything that helps him) some emotional relief, so Tommy may have insisted.

--Similarly, "I regret being selfish" isn't needed for the Sly Heather theory and goes against Heather's incredible narcissism. All those apologies to Tommy make more sense to me under the Tommy Pressure theory.


On the other hand, there are some things the Tommy Pressure theory doesn't explain and the Sly Heather theory does:

--I agree with FigTree: Heather's hatred for her mother clangs loudly throughout the videos. I think that weighs in favor of the Sly Heather theory. Tommy doesn't care about this issue; Heather can't let go of it.

--If Tommy wanted to save his cousin, why weren't the videos uploaded right away? It makes no sense now. Bibbs is toast.

--I didn't find her affect notable. She was more calm than some other occasions, but she knew she was about to confess to murder. She didn't look like a hostage reading a ransom note--not even close.

--There are the sounds of multiple people nearby. If Heather were really being coerced, she could call out.

--I think the strongest reason to reject the Tommy Pressure theory is that I find it impossible to believe Heather is reading a script. ajaylee, I found your post about viewing the videos without sound fascinating! How did you think of that?! I did it. Heather looks up and to the left, up and to the right, to the side and down. She puts her hand over or near her eyes more than once. All the kinds of things which would make reading someone else's words from a script that must be kept hidden from the camera quite difficult.

Then I viewed again with sound. While there are a couple of times she interrupts her thoughts, they are exactly the kinds of interruptions that occur in ordinary speech. Her facial expressions match her words, and she has a lot of different facial expressions, which you would not expect if a person is delivering someone else's text.

Her pauses are always in the right place for one's own thoughts being expressed. Even though there are many lies, they are HER lies, not someone else's script. Her delivery has the fluidity of natural speech, with changes in tempo and inflection perfectly matched to her little speech.

Even newscasters, who read to camera daily for years on end, regularly flub or otherwise make clear they are speaking from a prepared text. They look forward and don't roll around and turn their face this way and that. But Heather never gives a single signal that she is reading. She never stops and moves her eyes to show the scrutiny of finding her place in a script.

--The text for the three videos would have taken multiple sheets of paper. We hear no papers rustling.

--Do we have a collection of links to the writings of Heather and Tommy? It would be interesting to re-read some of these with the text of this video in mind and compare styles.

The biggest problem with the Tommy Pressure theory, I think, is that Heather is the master manipulator. Not Tommy. How could Tommy have found a wedge to suddenly get Heather to do his bidding? What could it be? And why not use the fruits of his coercion immediately?

I still lean very strongly toward the Sly Heather theory, but this new claim is worth examining to see if it just might be a better explanation. After all, they are both murderers and shameless liars. I try to keep an open mind.
 
My observations to throw into the mix.

Heather did it theory...

Judging by the videos she uploaded of her and Stella last June, she appeared fuller faced and more tanned in those videos than in the ones uploaded this past week. Could just be lighting but isn't it the rainy season now? Which might account for her paler skin? And of course we have no idea what runs through her mind at any time as to why she would do this now.

Tommy did it theory...

What possible reason would she have at any time since the murder to make these videos? She calls the shots, not Tommy. Well, back in June 2016, they had been having troubles since April. TS was much more vocal on social media about her. She only posted "We made a mess of what used to be love, so why do I care at all?" So....perhaps she was trying to appease TS by making these videos? Trying to get "back together". She's the type to do anything in the spur of the moment for her immediate gratification without thinking of possible consequences. He's not an innocent. He could have coerced her into doing this confession as her showing her love for him with the belief that would cement their relationship. And he got the video to use at his discretion at a later date and didn't follow through with a "reconcilliation". http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-heather-mack-met-20160630-story.html

Why release them now? I'm sure TS wants Stella to go to his mother. And feels guilty about RB. He still likes his posts on FB even if he can't comment on them since they are not friends on there. I'm sure they're in contact some other way. These videos are only a plus for him to make himself look better and her worse. He also needs to clear himself in the conspiracy thing to return to the US. And if he didn't have a part in it, he would have agreed to meet with her face to face in front of prison officials to clear his name from it. He didn't.

Bali prison warden Tonny Nainggolan said authorities were investigating who recorded and uploaded the videos. He said neither Mack nor Schaefer had admitted to producing or uploading the videos and blamed each other.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...mack-boyfriend-statements-20170209-story.html

Ajaylee is correct, HM did not use any of her usual contacts to get this out. The videos were uploaded Feb 1st and didn't make the news until the 4th? And it was a Chicago news outlet that picked it up. Who tipped them off? They don't appear to be admitting that HM contacted them. So HM has still obviously not contacted the Tribune but she did manage to get a lawyer to prepare an 8 page retraction. Sounds like someone who is really pissed off and wants to set the record straight. And is maybe pissed at the Tribune for putting up those videos without contacting her about them first?

So I guess I'm leaning more towards TS did it?

All that said, HM at least still has her phone as of 45 minutes ago. And judging by her roommates and their posts to social media, so do most of the female inmates so she'd never be without internet for any length of time. Why is Kerobokan offering them free wi fi?!?. SMH
 
I can't decide.

Heather did it.

She's a master manipulator. The language is believable. There are holes in the story, but as clever and quick as she is, she's made mistakes and left gaping holes in her stories before. I don't believe she's reading from a script.

However...I feel like I'm missing something about the timing: does it have to do with Stella's imminent removal, the Bibbs trial (bit late for that), something more going on with all the Chicago court activity that we don't know about? And if it's HM, I'm still curious about the way the videos got released. I've mentioned the Hotel K crackdown. I think everyone's laying a bit low with cellphone activity. HM stopped IGs (or changed accounts) shortly after the Daily Mail article last summer. Her friend Nadushka was really upset, and a lot of their joint photos disappeared from both women's IGs almost immediately. Nadushka doesn't post nearly as often, and her posts don't show beer/cigarettes or much of Hotel K at all. I don't think HM has the unfettered freedom she had before the crackdown, particularly now that her access to funds is very limited.

The business about SWM having murdered James Mack, and HM mysteriously finding out about it two weeks before going to Bali sounds like pure HM, though.

One thing that particularly strikes me: both HM and TS spoke about Stella in their prior long communications. In these videos, HM doesn't bring Stella up at all. Very curious.


Tommy did it.

TS had a reputation for making up stories, particularly to play on folks' emotions, when he was in Oak Park. I think the language also could be his. Frankly, some of it sounds like something I think Bibbs would say - the business about HM fabricating text messages.

I just can't see what TS could have used to coerce HM in any way. HM, TS, and RB all have an equal interest in dismissing the conspiracy theory. The reference to TS not being able to get a job jumped out at me, though - that sounds like TS. He's already raised the issue when he was trying to demand a settlement from the trust because murdering SWM and getting caught means he will have trouble getting a job when he gets out. Pretty audacious - taking legal measures to get your victim's estate to pay you for the murder.




Long shot: could Bibbs or someone acting on his behalf have just gotten hold of this and been thinking that it could save Bibbs? That still doesn't answer when it was made and why.
 
I think Bibbs and TS have been in contact with each other all along. Perhaps through a third party. Someone tipped off the Chicago Tribune about these videos and it appears it wasn't HM. I edited my post above about that but I'll restate, I bet she's really pissed at them for running those videos without contacting her about them first.

MOO
 
I agree, Bibbs and TS have been in constant contact.

I'm inclined to think HM's outrage is genuine, except....she's acting exactly the way she'd act if she had gotten her wrist slapped for previous Hotel K videos that make the prison look lax. If that's true, then she would use a roundabout way to release the videos so she could deny having anything to do with it.

Kamille, where is HM still posting? I hit the wrong button and unfollowed her IG by accident, but according to the stats, she hasn't made any new posts. Nadushka was the only one of her prison mates I followed, and I think she's out now.

The face-to-face? At this point, I can see every reason for TS to refuse the meeting. HM's on the video, HM clearly was a physically willing participant when the video was made, HM's the one prison authorities are understandably going to focus on, particularly if it's true and she's actually gotten in trouble before. If TS denies everything, she still has to answer for making the videos. It wouldn't be a pleasant meeting, so in his shoes, I'd refuse, too.

I wonder if this is really about Stella? I have no idea what TS or HM's legal rights with regard to Stella are in Indonesia. This video does not make HM look like a good candidate for custodial parent. Perhaps this is really about the coming battle to decide who gets to say where Stella ends up.
 
I admit, I am stumped. Been looking through old posts to see if there are any clues to anything. The only thing I found is TS's long letter saying HM thought her mom killed her dad when she was 10. He posted that in October.

Can't You Tube find the ISP and date that a page was created, what ISP, (I assume a phone has an ISP) the videos were uploaded from? Of course, now HM will say TS used her phone. The motivation isn't obvious here. I love reading you all's theories.
 
I think it's about the money, so yes, it's about Stella, but maybe only peripherally with her 2nd birthday coming up.

Wildcard one is the slayer statute. I think HM is panicking that she could get skipped and oh yeah the other wildcard: those potential conspiracy charges. She has got to be freaking, and spinning her evil plans all day long.

She is backed in a corner and desperate to blame everything on Sheila. This all looks like classic NPD diversion to me Attempting to muddy the waters and the bonus is the victim card with all the associated drama. Poor me! I'm the victim! SMH.

Scenario:
Maybe her lawyer is complicit, and perhaps this is their long con? Maybe he posted them. Is he the only one left who is communicating with her? Maybe he thinks there could be a payoff. Why else would he work so hard on damage control? Maybe they thought this was their last ditch ace in the hole. Shrug.
 
I admit, I am stumped. Been looking through old posts to see if there are any clues to anything. The only thing I found is TS's long letter saying HM thought her mom killed her dad when she was 10. He posted that in October.

Can't You Tube find the ISP and date that a page was created, what ISP, (I assume a phone has an ISP) the videos were uploaded from? Of course, now HM will say TS used her phone. The motivation isn't obvious here. I love reading you all's theories.

If either of them uploaded the video, I would think it was via the Kerobokan wi fi so it would be impossible to determine which one.

If it was uploaded in Chicago...I'm putting that in the "Tommy did it" file.

MOO
 
She looks high as hell. Nevertheless, She's a master manipulator. What if.... TS & HM are split...but she wants him back ...so she records these videos to try to win him back.. TS sees the videos but it doesnt work, he still didn't want her back, so she recanted and said she was coerced by him. He's probably got some new girlfriend and she can't handle it.
 
She looks high as hell. Nevertheless, She's a master manipulator. What if.... TS & HM are split...but she wants him back ...so she records these videos to try to win him back.. TS sees the videos but it doesnt work, he still didn't want her back, so she recanted and said she was coerced by him. He's probably got some new girlfriend and she can't handle it.

I'm tempted to agree with the direction you're going in here. I think she looks so much worse than in her IG posts from last year.. I find it hard to believe these videos were made a year ago. I think she's deteriorating and almost certainly doing drugs (at least more than she was before), and when Stella leaves it will only get worse. MOO
 
I'm tempted to agree with the direction you're going in here. I think she looks so much worse than in her IG posts from last year.. I find it hard to believe these videos were made a year ago. I think she's deteriorating and almost certainly doing drugs (at least more than she was before), and when Stella leaves it will only get worse. MOO

I think the videos might have been made around the time TS posted his long, now modified, letter on Facebook. The language in his letter and her videos are similar. There never seemed to be a point to his letter or the timing of the post.

I, too, suspect she's deteriorating. For a long time, she genuinely seemed to believe she was going to be getting out around the time Stella did. She treated her situation with defiance with occasional moments of 'homesickness' for her previous life. It was like a loooong summer camp when you're faking it to be one of the 'in' girls but word is getting out that you're just a nobody who's about to lose her kid.

And unless something works in her favor, she's got six more years to go.
 
So...wow. Team Tommy uploaded the videos? If so, that was well-played, to say the least. Nice move. [emoji95]
 
I don't know why I feel this way, but I'm glad Kia Walker is trying to get custody of Stella. It seems like the best option, although none of the options are truly good. I think Kia may be a bit crazy, but she is a big woman. Looks like a strong woman. As long as she is sober, ( I have no reason to think she isn't), she should be able to kick HM's *advertiser censored* if she ever comes around.

I am wondering how much of the trust fund is left. In June, 2015, the news said $400K had been spent in legal fees and there was about a million left. http://abc7chicago.com/news/guardian-must-represent-heather-macks-baby-judge-says/781079/

That was 20 months ago. Maybe that is why HM looks so sad. All the money is gone!

I do believe the best thing for Stella is if there is enough money for her basic needs and education, and that is it. In a trust that is approved by Cook County. Otherwise, she will spend her life dealing with people trying to suck her dry. She is already going to have so much emotional baggage. I want the best chance for her to having a happy, normal, loving life.
 
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