Belize - Francesca Matus, 52, & Drew De Voursney, 36, murdered, Corozal, 25 Apr 2017

[otto]

I don't see aneighty year old incapacitating two healthy fit people in their thirties. Jmo


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From the description of him in the news, I get the impression he hired people for things like that ... but when it came to breaking bottles on people's heads, he did it himself.

 

[Kophy]

Definitely no tape on the light. On the current pictures the bumper is hanging off in front of the wheel, so she must have had a mild accident at some point.

When I saw the bumper like that, I thought that it might have happened from driving through the cane field. The license plate also seems bent a little/pushed back at the bottom.

If the damage to the headlight was that recent, it might support the idea that the duct tape was in the vehicle?


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[Kophy]

From the description of him in the news, I get the impression he hired people for things like that ... but when it came to breaking bottles on people's heads, he did it himself.

I really want to know what that was about!


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[Wondergirl]

I'm thinking that he was asked to remove, hold and basically "hide" these items for someone. Otherwise you'd think if he just outright stole the items, he'd be trying to sell them off. To whom though? :waitasec:

MOO

He is friends with one of the casino owners.

 

[Kamille]

Lots of stuff going on with JD. No money, on the verge of being homeless, not to mention soon to be without transportation. FM disappeared on the eve of her actually disappearing from Belize. Possibly he figured that she wouldn't be missed, that he'd continue to have a home for at least a little while longer, and that he could sell the blue Dodge Ram and continue to use the white Isuzu. Solves all his problems at once. Sure there are plenty of flaws to this plan, but I see this guy as being very close to being homeless in a third world country. He seems to have bottomed out. Explains the Casino theft as well.

Well this is all speculation as we have no idea of any of the reasons why things were happening as they were. We have no idea if the rumours of him arguing with FM about late rent payments were true. We have no idea why he (or his girlfriend) wanted to sell his truck (perhaps he wanted a newer, more reliable one?) or why his girlfriend suddenly started listing items for sale online the same day as the alleged argument.

But it all does make it look like he was having financial trouble down there. I guess the question is still going to be, was it enough for him to want his "best friend" and landlord dead? :waitasec:

MOO

On a side note: I assume that all of the dollar figures that are being quoted with regards to the value of the items from the casino and the dollar value that his girlfriend was asking for the truck, are in Belize dollars?

 

[Kamille]

He is friends with one of the casino owners.

Not sure that he's indicated that he is a friend of the casino owner. I thought that he implied that he was working for the casino owner.

So... do you think perhaps he DID just steal the items and he's been trying to sell them to another casino owner that he does consider to be a friend? Or do you believe his story that he was working for a partner in a casino and he just did what his "boss" told him to do? :waitasec:

MOO

 

[Kamille]

When I saw the bumper like that, I thought that it might have happened from driving through the cane field. The license plate also seems bent a little/pushed back at the bottom.

If the damage to the headlight was that recent, it might support the idea that the duct tape was in the vehicle?


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Well that picture was posted to DD's facebook on April 5th. Now we can't say for sure what day that picture was actually taken but if it was taken on the 5th, 20 days later, the right front side of the car was damaged and duct tape was used to keep the lights in place. Duct tape was also used to bind the right wrists of the victims, although it was stated that they were not bound together. Not sure how LE can determine this. Perhaps they just meant that they were not bound together when found. That's not to say that they were not bound to each other during the commission of the crime.

Anyway...we have not heard from anyone who knows them whether the duct tape was put on the car before that evening for any accident that FM may have had with the car prior to arriving at Scotty's Bar on the evening of the 25th. The missing poster indicated only that the passenger side mirror was broken. I'd think the duct tape and damaged front end would have been mentioned by her friends for the missing poster if they knew about it.

I wonder if there is actually police patrolling some of the main roads during the night? If that damage occurred on the night of the murder, after they left the bar, perhaps they were deliberately run off the road and the perp(s) taped the light in place so as not to attract the attention of police while driving the car?

Just another thing to ponder. Although if FM did have the accident and taped the light together herself, I could see why she would keep a roll of duct tape in the car just in case it came off.

MOO

 

[dotr]

Ironically, if it turns out that the poi is in fact guilty of the murders ,then the warning could very well be for Canadians to be wary of Canadians when in sunny climes!
imo speculation.

http://www.ctv3belizenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8019:canada-issues-travel-warning-to-belize-&catid=43:economy&Itemid=111
Canada Issues Travel Warning To Belize

Wednesday, 10 May 2017 02:50 | Written by CTV3 Publisher |

The unsolved double murders of 53 year old Canadian National Francesca Matus and 36 year old U.S. National Drew DeVoursney have brought the focus of the international media upon us and a whole lot of bad press.

Now this is not the first travel warning against Belize, and Belize is not the only country being blacklisted in a sense, since it is among 8 countries in the Caribbean against whom the travel warning was issued. The other countries are Bahamas, the Dominican Republic, Guyana, Haiti, Jamaica, Trinidad & Tobago and Suriname.

 

[fred&edna]

Great find, thanks Hazel!
Did i hear correctly something about the tenant flying a plane to look around at what was going on, approx. @ 14: 53?

Print version (which has likely been posted before)

The handyman added that John “was helping the other white guys because he went to rent an airplane. And he was flying all over here and seeing what’s going on, but then I don’t see him again.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/05/0...an-american-boyfriend-were-strangled-to-death


Maybe it's a language translation thing but... I wonder if JD (who has "seemed" to need $ - behind in rent, possibly selling vehicle, etc) actually rented the plane himself or was he just a passenger in the aerial search. I just can't imagine a plane rental being inexpensive.
Curious.

 

[Wondergirl]

Not sure that he's indicated that he is a friend of the casino owner. I thought that he implied that he was working for the casino owner.

So... do you think perhaps he DID just steal the items and he's been trying to sell them to another casino owner that he does consider to be a friend? Or do you believe his story that he was working for a partner in a casino and he just did what his "boss" told him to do? :waitasec:

MOO

I'm not sure what to think.

I saw JD's FB before he had someone shut it down. He is FB friends with one of the owners of the casino.

The casino thing sounds like a convenient excuse to charge him and make it look they they are making headway in the case.

It sounds like JD was hired to disconnect some equipment and a business deal soured.

JMO FWIW

 

[otto]

Ironically, if it turns out that the poi is in fact guilty of the murders ,then the warning could very well be for Canadians to be wary of Canadians when in sunny climes!
imo speculation.

http://www.ctv3belizenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8019:canada-issues-travel-warning-to-belize-&catid=43:economy&Itemid=111
Canada Issues Travel Warning To Belize

Where are they getting that from:

"Last updated: May 2, 2017 13:03 ET

Still valid: May 10, 2017 22:59 ET

Latest updates: The Health tab was updated - travel health notices (Public Health Agency of Canada).

There is no nationwide advisory in effect for Belize. However, you should exercise a high degree of caution due to a high rate of violent crime throughout the country."

https://travel.gc.ca/destinations/belize

 

[Wondergirl]

Well that picture was posted to DD's facebook on April 5th. Now we can't say for sure what day that picture was actually taken but if it was taken on the 5th, 20 days later, the right front side of the car was damaged and duct tape was used to keep the lights in place. Duct tape was also used to bind the right wrists of the victims, although it was stated that they were not bound together. Not sure how LE can determine this. Perhaps they just meant that they were not bound together when found. That's not to say that they were not bound to each other during the commission of the crime.

Anyway...we have not heard from anyone who knows them whether the duct tape was put on the car before that evening for any accident that FM may have had with the car prior to arriving at Scotty's Bar on the evening of the 25th. The missing poster indicated only that the passenger side mirror was broken. I'd think the duct tape and damaged front end would have been mentioned by her friends for the missing poster if they knew about it.

I wonder if there is actually police patrolling some of the main roads during the night? If that damage occurred on the night of the murder, after they left the bar, perhaps they were deliberately run off the road and the perp(s) taped the light in place so as not to attract the attention of police while driving the car?

Just another thing to ponder. Although if FM did have the accident and taped the light together herself, I could see why she would keep a roll of duct tape in the car just in case it came off.

MOO

From what I have read - people don't drive much at night and if they do they are often drunk. It seems to be a common thing. They don't seem to have many police officers, and I don't think they are pulling people over for infractions like we know it in our countries. I think it's alot more loose leaf. People don't wear seat belts there, they don't have street names and they put out fires with buckets of water. The police have to use their personal phones for work calls - if they have enough cell time on them.

We have to try to understand the extremely different scenario going on here I think. It's difficult for me, but I'm trying.

Have you seen where they are storing Francesca's suv? It's out in the elements beside the "police station" parked on a little lot.

LE carried their bodies with the farmers door.

I've read LE can't process fingerprints properly, let alone DNA.

 

[otto]

In addition to several countries, like Belize, being described as having a high rate violent crime throughout the country, the same countries have the Zika virus. The health update on May 2 is for measles.

 

[Kamille]

Where are they getting that from:

"Last updated: May 2, 2017 13:03 ET

Still valid: May 10, 2017 22:59 ET

Latest updates: The Health tab was updated - travel health notices (Public Health Agency of Canada).

There is no nationwide advisory in effect for Belize. However, you should exercise a high degree of caution due to a high rate of violent crime throughout the country."

https://travel.gc.ca/destinations/belize

Yes...it might surprise the author of that "news" report to learn that the travel advisory has been in place for quite some time. The only recent updates have been for health advisories, most recently the zika virus. That's kind of what governments do to warn their citizens about travelling to violent and lawless places. They put warnings on their official websites and hope that their citizens think to check before choosing to travel.

Which is probably why you won't find the RCMP heading down there to investigate this murder or any other murders of Canadian expats or tourists. It is pretty much "travel at your own risk" in a lot of these places, which is why the government puts out the travel warnings. Don't expect our national police to be getting involved if something should happen to you. JD has also learned that while "consular assistance" is available in these countries, they don't provide much other than a list of lawyers for you to call. They also do not get involved in the judicial system of the country. I believe JD was without an attorney for most of his interrogations and bail hearing.

MOO

ETA: I have to wonder if the only reason that the FBI offered to help is because they had agents in the country working on the drug smuggling problems. And considering that DD is an ex marine, they felt it was only right to try to help out with the investigation since they had agents there.

 

[Kamille]

In addition to several countries, like Belize, being described as having a high rate violent crime throughout the country, the same countries have the Zika virus. The health update on May 2 is for measles.

Ah yes...thanks...the zika update was done in March. So the most recent one was for measles.

 

[Kamille]

From what I have read - people don't drive much at night and if they do they are often drunk. It seems to be a common thing. They don't seem to have many police officers, and I don't think they are pulling people over for infractions like we know it in our countries. I think it's alot more loose leaf. People don't wear seat belts there, they don't have street names and they put out fires with buckets of water. The police have to use their personal phones for work calls - if they have enough cell time on them.

We have to try to understand the extremely different scenario going on here I think. It's difficult for me, but I'm trying.

Have you seen where they are storing Francesca's suv? It's out in the elements beside the "police station" parked on a little lot.

LE carried their bodies with the farmers door.

I've read LE can't process fingerprints properly, let alone DNA.

This recent story seems to indicate that police do traffic stops?

http://www.ctv3belizenews.com/index...gainst-corozalenos-&catid=40:crime&Itemid=100

And other types of routine patrols?

http://www.ctv3belizenews.com/index...rijuana-possession-&catid=40:crime&Itemid=100

 

[Kophy]

Well that picture was posted to DD's facebook on April 5th. Now we can't say for sure what day that picture was actually taken but if it was taken on the 5th, 20 days later, the right front side of the car was damaged and duct tape was used to keep the lights in place. Duct tape was also used to bind the right wrists of the victims, although it was stated that they were not bound together. Not sure how LE can determine this. Perhaps they just meant that they were not bound together when found. That's not to say that they were not bound to each other during the commission of the crime.

Anyway...we have not heard from anyone who knows them whether the duct tape was put on the car before that evening for any accident that FM may have had with the car prior to arriving at Scotty's Bar on the evening of the 25th. The missing poster indicated only that the passenger side mirror was broken. I'd think the duct tape and damaged front end would have been mentioned by her friends for the missing poster if they knew about it.

MOO

Re: Right wrists - That has been reported and caused a bit of speculation. Most reports don't word it that way. So for me, I'm up in the air about that being true until they clarify that it was right wrists only.

Re: Mirror - There was also some speculation that someone may have mistakenly said mirror rather than headlight. I imagine things were pretty frantic when the posters were made. I haven't seen the car from an angle that will confirm damage to the passenger mirror. It looks fine from the back.

Whether or not the duct tape was present or the killer(s) brought it with him/them would speak to whether or not there was a plan or if they were disorganized and used tools of opportunity. I don't think we have enough solid information to disregard the question.

But in my opinion, the killer wouldn't have taken much care in securing that headlight so well.



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[Kophy]

This recent story seems to indicate that police do traffic stops?

http://www.ctv3belizenews.com/index...gainst-corozalenos-&catid=40:crime&Itemid=100

And other types of routine patrols?

http://www.ctv3belizenews.com/index...rijuana-possession-&catid=40:crime&Itemid=100

Off topic but Ha! $5.00 for court costs. I kind of like the idea of guilty people having to cover court costs. Here, it would take more than $5.00. It would probably be a minimum of $75 to get a copy of the order.

I was pick-pocketed in Ottawa once and the police charged me $48 for a copy of the police report so I could get on the plane.


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[Kophy]

Last thoughts before I try to sleep.
I've never thought they had the right guy, BUT

The silence of the community is deafening. Only 3 people have told media that JD couldn't have done this. His girlfriend, one friend in Belize and someone close to him in Barrie.

Where are his other friends that could confirm or dispute the information in these news stories? If I lost a friend and I was reading things that weren't true and they implicated someone I really thought was innocent, I would have to say something.

So do they think he is guilty?
Or have friends and family of Francesca and Drew been advised to say nothing at all in case it interferes with the ongoing investigation?




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[Kophy]

Last post - I promise.

But I'm just wondering. What if JD fixed the headlight for her - and it was the same tape used to bind them - and they found the roll at JD's or in his truck? That would tip the scales.


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