Belize - Francesca Matus, 52, & Drew De Voursney, 36, murdered, Corozal, 25 Apr 2017

[nanosec]

Was reading on a Belize ExPat forum that the locals are speculating that this is an execution and perhaps related to drugs.

I know JD is being looked at, but it just seems too pat to place it on him for non payment of rent. IMHO Matus probably had him around as caretaker as others had pointed out, and perhaps grudgingly tolerated any money owed.

The fact that JD let an 80 year old smash a beer bottle into his head and everyone saying he is terrified of the guy that did it leads me to believe he is not the same person who would murder 2 people and dump their bodies. I think the police wanting to wrap this up under intense political pressure to save tourism dollars would blame him. The fact that the FBI is there investigating might be the best thing ever for JD if he is innocent.

The math doesn't add up that is was JD. I can't see where he sat down and thought a double murder would help his situation. He might have been a mooch or down on his luck. It doesn't mean he's a killer.

 

[PaxBelize]

Thanks for the link. I wonder if any American or Canadian medical officials were present for the autopsy. Not so sure I trust the Belizian statement by itself.

I would think it very unlikely. There is a lack of confidence generally in terms of autopsies here. I'm no expert but I know that people often state their dissatisfaction with the outcome of autopsies done here, all of which are done by the police coroner.

 

[PaxBelize]

I read the articles, I guess you're referring to Elio Lopez. Certainly seems he's a hardened criminal who recruits younger guys to help him with his plots.

But this kidnapping raises so many red flags when I look at the details: Two cane farmers aged 23 and 31, and a 26 year old 'land consultant', driving a $15,000 Nissan Infiniti, arrive to inspect/buy a Nissan X-terra with $13,000 cash. One was wearing a ring and gold chain worth $3,000 and had a $600 Gucci wallet. One guy carried a razor blade in his wallet and was comfortable using a gun, he said if it had fired correctly he'd have killed one of his assailants.

So how exactly do young cane farmers get so much cash to spend on luxury cars and accessories? Probably everyone knew how much spare money they had, they'd stand out as easy pickings in a scheme to rob them.

http://www.ctv3belizenews.com/index...-managed-to-escape-&catid=40:crime&Itemid=100

In comparison, I just don't think a pair of local expats driving a 20 year old jeep home from a bar would appear to be worth the trouble of robbing.



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Please do keep in mind that these figures are in Belize Dollars, which are worth half of a USD.

 

[PaxBelize]

I just seen her, has 2 FBs. You're right, she's young for him, and IMO, her 2 kids are not his. The only thing is he doesn't seem to have much money, only attraction could be his Canadian citizenship. (just speculation on my part).

After reading the latest news, I too am starting to think the pieces of the puzzle fitting together, are painting a clear picture. At this point in time we can only speculate and come up with lots of different case scenarios, and theories.

IF (big IF) JD is in fact guilty, I am trying to imagine how he could have easily disabled DD. This is just all speculation. FM & DD left Scotty's, and their friends said they were going "home", apparently everybody assumed they were going to FM's home in Corozal. Now I'm thinking it's possible that they DID made it home, and were approached by JM, saying he had the money to settle the debt. Most likely cash since it would have been too late for a cheque. It was late and dark and he could have invited them over to his place, FM went upstairs to her place to get the paperwork (maybe I-owe-yous) and receipts, while DD stayed chatting with JD.

Again, please this is ALL just pure speculation, I'm just trying to make the pieces of the puzzle fit together.
While counting the money and doing the paperwork, they could have been offered some drinks, either alcoholic or refreshments, homemade limonade, pop, something spiked that put them to sleep or OD. To make sure they were not going to wake up, they were strangled. I don't know how to make the duct tape fit in this case scenario.

Young local women in relationships with old (and very old) North American and western European men are extremely common in Belize. Part is to do with perceived wealth. Even a small amount of money and the security of a home is more than many young Belizean (or from other Central American countries) woman have. For many, sex work is their only option - especially single parents. There's also a cultural aspect in that it's believed that 'white' men treat their female partners better. Many older men come from North America specifically for the companionship of a younger (or very young in many cases) woman.

 

[PaxBelize]

To late it already has.. www.BoycottBelize.com

I have no idea why they think boycotting Belize will make any difference. Perhaps it will make the local people more poor and desperate. That will help - not!

 

[PaxBelize]

It just occurred to me, while most of Belize probably doesn't have street video suveillance, there must be some out in Consejo Shores that could possibly capture whether they drove that far. Also, it probably would have it's own cell tower, so the FBI could find out if they got in range of it.

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I very much doubt it. There is no street surveillance in Belize that I am aware of. Some individual property owners and businesses may have their own, but maintenance is an issue, so it is mostly for looks.

 

[PaxBelize]

What would that process be and how long would it usually take? Who would enforce it?

TIA

Same as in the UK. You apply to the courts, provide the tenants with a notice to quit and when it's time, if they haven't left, the police and bailiffs will enforce. It happens frequently. While the police and courts do not do well with this type of crime due mostly to inadequate resources, the basic functioning of day to day business operates well. In fact the judicial system here is a good one for the most part.

 

[PaxBelize]

From what I have read - people don't drive much at night and if they do they are often drunk. It seems to be a common thing. They don't seem to have many police officers, and I don't think they are pulling people over for infractions like we know it in our countries. I think it's alot more loose leaf. People don't wear seat belts there, they don't have street names and they put out fires with buckets of water. The police have to use their personal phones for work calls - if they have enough cell time on them.

We have to try to understand the extremely different scenario going on here I think. It's difficult for me, but I'm trying.

Have you seen where they are storing Francesca's suv? It's out in the elements beside the "police station" parked on a little lot.

LE carried their bodies with the farmers door.

I've read LE can't process fingerprints properly, let alone DNA.

These are pretty much accurate observations.

 

[PaxBelize]

Yes...it might surprise the author of that "news" report to learn that the travel advisory has been in place for quite some time. The only recent updates have been for health advisories, most recently the zika virus. That's kind of what governments do to warn their citizens about travelling to violent and lawless places. They put warnings on their official websites and hope that their citizens think to check before choosing to travel.

Which is probably why you won't find the RCMP heading down there to investigate this murder or any other murders of Canadian expats or tourists. It is pretty much "travel at your own risk" in a lot of these places, which is why the government puts out the travel warnings. Don't expect our national police to be getting involved if something should happen to you. JD has also learned that while "consular assistance" is available in these countries, they don't provide much other than a list of lawyers for you to call. They also do not get involved in the judicial system of the country. I believe JD was without an attorney for most of his interrogations and bail hearing.

MOO

ETA: I have to wonder if the only reason that the FBI offered to help is because they had agents in the country working on the drug smuggling problems. And considering that DD is an ex marine, they felt it was only right to try to help out with the investigation since they had agents there.

I can pretty safely say that the USA has a very heavy DEA presence here all the time. I'm still not convinced the FBI has done anything here to be honest.

 

[PaxBelize]

This recent story seems to indicate that police do traffic stops?

http://www.ctv3belizenews.com/index...gainst-corozalenos-&catid=40:crime&Itemid=100

And other types of routine patrols?

http://www.ctv3belizenews.com/index...rijuana-possession-&catid=40:crime&Itemid=100

From time to time they do.

 

[Wondergirl]

I can pretty safely say that the USA has a very heavy DEA presence here all the time. I'm still not convinced the FBI has done anything here to be honest.

Pax, what IS being done there? Can you give us any idea of what's going on with respect to this investigation?

Thanks,
WG

 

[andreww]

Young local women in relationships with old (and very old) North American and western European men are extremely common in Belize. Part is to do with perceived wealth. Even a small amount of money and the security of a home is more than many young Belizean (or from other Central American countries) woman have. For many, sex work is their only option - especially single parents. There's also a cultural aspect in that it's believed that 'white' men treat their female partners better. Many older men come from North America specifically for the companionship of a younger (or very young in many cases) woman.

So JL was likely with JD simply because he was providing shelter and food. If he were to lose that shelter it stands to reason that he'd likely lose JL as well.

 

[Wondergirl]

Please do keep in mind that these figures are in Belize Dollars, which are worth half of a USD.

Court records obtained by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution accuse Deshaies of stealing machine game and operating systems, data servers with hard drives, laptops, other equipment and gambling chips from the Placencia Casino in Belize on March 16. The value of those items, the records show, total 57,378.50 Belizean dollars, or 28,689.25 U.S. dollars.

http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-news/person-interest-belizean-murder-investigation-pleads-not-guilty-theft-charge/YttccSo75vwC9cFumtnGTP/

 

[dotr]

My heart goes out today to all who knew and loved Francesca, especially to her sons, who will not have their Mom this Mother's Day.
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/funeral-today-for-keswick-woman-killed-in-belize-1.3408828

[h=1]Funeral today for Keswick woman killed in Belize[/h]

 

[Kophy]

Was reading on a Belize ExPat forum that the locals are speculating that this is an execution and perhaps related to drugs.

Can you link to that forum please? I can only find one such comment and it's on the Corozal Daily FB page. That comment didn't appear to garner any support or responses, or offer any reasoning for their opinion. I'd like to read anything where the locals are discussing this, but I've found nothing.

The fact that JD let an 80 year old smash a beer bottle into his head and everyone saying he is terrified of the guy that did it leads me to believe he is not the same person who would murder 2 people and dump their bodies. I think the police wanting to wrap this up under intense political pressure to save tourism dollars would blame him. The fact that the FBI is there investigating might be the best thing ever for JD if he is innocent.

Agreed.


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[PaxBelize]

Pax, what IS being done there? Can you give us any idea of what's going on with respect to this investigation?

Thanks,
WG

I can only tell you what normally happens which is not a lot. The police have a lot to do and very few resources. If they have the evidence to charge someone they will. They rarely do. If someone confesses or an eye witness comes forward, then they may charge. The charges rarely stick as either confessions are not reliable or witnesses don't turn up or change their story. I'm sorry to let you down, but not everywhere is like the North America or western Europe. Prosecutions are very rare. Almost unheard of and convictions are even rarer. We don't have proper journalists so there is never any follow up. I can't see much more happening now unless something dramatic happens. Belize is a funny sort of place. The Prime Minister and his wife walk around town and do their work without security for the most part. I think they might have some at their house now at night, but that's fairly new. I see them around quite a lot. I feel safer here than I did living in countries in North America and Western Europe and safer here than when I visit those places. I don't own a gun or have any sort of special security. I know the police won't come if I call them. What can I say? This murder was awful and tragic, as all murders are. Unfortunately, it happened in a country where murderers are rarely caught. There have been many more as tragic cases in the USA in the time since. It's likely that their murderers may be caught. Completely different worlds.

 

[Kophy]

Apparently, FBI involvement is not unusual and they can use any resources they believe are needed "whether there's one victim...or hundreds."

"Our jurisdiction doesn't extend to non-terrorism related homocides, robberies, rapes, and muggings of Americans - these are usually handled by local authorities. But we can - and sometimes do - offer investigative or forensics assistance in these cases if asked."

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2008/june/international_060308


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[Satchie]

Court records obtained by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution accuse Deshaies of stealing machine game and operating systems, data servers with hard drives, laptops, other equipment and gambling chips from the Placencia Casino in Belize on March 16. The value of those items, the records show, total 57,378.50 Belizean dollars, or 28,689.25 U.S. dollars.

http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-news/person-interest-belizean-murder-investigation-pleads-not-guilty-theft-charge/YttccSo75vwC9cFumtnGTP/

Unless someone was planning to open up their own casino, they wouldn't steal this stuff. Seems to me it may have been taken to prevent the casino from remaining open, and prevent someone from making money from it.

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[Satchie]

Was reading on a Belize ExPat forum that the locals are speculating that this is an execution and perhaps related to drugs.

I know JD is being looked at, but it just seems too pat to place it on him for non payment of rent. IMHO Matus probably had him around as caretaker as others had pointed out, and perhaps grudgingly tolerated any money owed.

The fact that JD let an 80 year old smash a beer bottle into his head and everyone saying he is terrified of the guy that did it leads me to believe he is not the same person who would murder 2 people and dump their bodies. I think the police wanting to wrap this up under intense political pressure to save tourism dollars would blame him. The fact that the FBI is there investigating might be the best thing ever for JD if he is innocent.

The math doesn't add up that is was JD. I can't see where he sat down and thought a double murder would help his situation. He might have been a mooch or down on his luck. It doesn't mean he's a killer.

Goods points here.

My only reaction to a theory about drug or gang execution is, those are often left where they can be discovered, as the purpose is partly to terrorize the community and show others what could happen if they don't stay loyal.

Edited to add: Francesca & Drew strike me as extremely unlikely candidates for being involved with drugs, other than possibly buying a little for recreation use. I also can't personally see how the low level dabbling they both did in Belize real estate would make either of them a target for this drastic a 'solution'.

So whatever sparked this off, it comes down, to me, to a murderer that was behaving in an over-the-top, somewhat insane manner, ie a sociopath. The personal 'reasons' why a sociopath kills make no sense ie: to get a truck for free, to get revenge for a seemingly trivial business slight, or other bizarre motives we see in cases on this forum.

I'm not saying JD is a sociopath, he could be entirely innocent, there's no case against him at this point.

 

[andreww]

Can you link to that forum please? I can only find one such comment and it's on the Corozal Daily FB page. That comment didn't appear to garner any support or responses, or offer any reasoning for their opinion. I'd like to read anything where the locals are discussing this, but I've found nothing.



Agreed.


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Google "Belize expat forum". There are two of them, both having short threads. The quote is almost verbatim and didn't have any support, so just one person's opinion. Was my first thought as well, however I don't see any evidence that FM was involved in any sort of drug activity.

What I do wonder is whether JD may have been stowing all that stolen merchandise in FMs house? Possibly she didn't want it there? I certainly wouldn't, especially if I was going to be gone for 6 months.