BIG HOLES in the defense theory

[embracing crazy]

Did JB say what time Caylee snuck out of the house and drown? The A's should be questioned on their home security routine. meaning...most people lock all the doors before going to bed. I'm wondering if they think Caylee not only opened a sliding glass door(not nearly as easy as a reg. door) but unlocked it first? or had GA already been out to the back yard earlier on the 16? Furthermore, GA has always left the impression that he was the one who took care of/spent time with Caylee in the morning? Cindy being at work and ICA sleeping. Wouldn't that mean that he was or would have felt equally responsible IF Caylee got out?

 

[Silkprint]

A huge hole to me is ..
Jose says she's a liar ..okay BUT that's doesn't explain why she doesn't care when she KNOWS her little girl has died . No guilt? no shame ? no remorse ? She didn't give a damn . Caylee was her only child ..her little girl . So she sees her dad with her baby in his arms and says what ?? JB said she cried and cried . Ok . Then what ? said 'see ya later gator ..I gotta guy to meet' . Even if it was an accident ..which I don't believe for 1 teeny minute why wasn't she hysterical ?? HOW could she watch a movie 3 hours later with her boyfriend ?
How was life beautiful ? if it was me ..God forgive me ...but I would have been comtemplating suicide not out dancing and making suppers ...
This defense is silly .

 

[Themis]

Within a few hours of this tragic, accidental drowning, she walks into blockbuster with a boyfriend -- and rents two movies.

These were the two movies ICA and TA rented at Blockbuster just before 8:00 p.m. on the evening of June 16, 2008:

One movie was “Untraceable,” about a kidnapper and killer. The other was “Jumper,” which features a character who is a mother who abandons her five-year-old child.

 

[atthelake]

Grandma Shirley said it all: KC hated Cindy more than she loved Caylee.

Jeez, we need to put her in our prayers. I can't fathom her on the stand. I will be doing crocodile tears on the day that Grandma Shirley takes the stand. Not sure how much is hearsay for her/will be testimony vs. all that we have read during her interview (and official legal handyman and cat assistance) at her house.

Is the prosecution able to use those jailhouse tapes to show KC's "surprise surprise" reaction when CA brings up the pool theory? And to also show how she asked for GA and talks about their special bond? If so, when do you think they will? Those NEED to be seen by the jury to completely rip that theory apart!

I wonder - perhaps someone in this thread knows the answer, if not after a day or so and wondering minds want to know, throw the question into the legal thread for answering. (Although Mr. Hornsby did visit this thread late Monday night!)

How about when GA discoverer her supposedly. Don't you think he would have yelled and someone would have heard something. How about when ICA went out to see what happened didnt they say she cried but no one heard the sobbing?

As to a reaction when you come upon a love on dead, in MY EXPERIENCE, it's not crying, it is termed wailing and screaming. You don't just cry/sob IMO.

Next big hole IMO....

As an alleged "abuse survivor" one might expect the victim to be ashamed and unwilling to come forward. The entire premise that JB laid out today...was the KC "could not" come forward because of the shame and secrets.

Why then...when given the opportunity for a gag order....as requested by the State of FLorida.....did the defense oppose it??????

Would a gag order not have been more adventageous to a real abuse victim?

Why ALLOW the EXPLOITATION and FURTHER VICTIMIZIZATION of your client if you know them to be a fragile, broken, abused, pretty, white and young girl???

As stated before, there this little thing called being "death qualified" and JB wants it more than anything IMO but needs the publicity to go with it.

I don't remember if the jail video of KC seeing the news when the remains were found on Suburban is coming in as evidence or not. Remember that she had a severe reaction to it and this was BEFORE the remains had been identified as Caylee. Whereas she had no reaction to other searches....how in heck does this fit into the defense theory that RK planted the body there??

IIRC, this has already been quashed as she had not asked to go to the doctors area where this was taped, she was guided to it. A no go! Others, chime in if you recall differently. I'm thinking that the testimony of the person that could do a verbal........hmmm....not sure if they can even testify for pretty much the same reason. Others here will know though.

 

[donnam]

You know, even Jeff Ashton was shaking his head no when JB was being descriptive about the alleged sex abuse. He looked disgusted. Anyone else see him in the background shaking his head?

Yup I saw it......

 

[Bittiness39]

Did JB say what time Caylee snuck out of the house and drown? The A's should be questioned on their home security routine. meaning...most people lock all the doors before going to bed. I'm wondering if they think Caylee not only opened a sliding glass door(not nearly as easy as a reg. door) but unlocked it first? or had GA already been out to the back yard earlier on the 16? Furthermore, GA has always left the impression that he was the one who took care of/spent time with Caylee in the morning? Cindy being at work and ICA sleeping. Wouldn't that mean that he was or would have felt equally responsible IF Caylee got out?

So Casey, was where, when Caylee drowned herself? When Cindy left the ladder down, George was nowhere to be found, Casey, was where? Without any responsbility as always. Of course...Casey was "working".

 

[PGWodehouse]

At the risk of receiving the dreaded Ban Hammer, I should like to state:

The largest hole in the defense theory is the massive one between Jose Baez's ears.
That is all.

 

[Bittiness39]

Jeez, we need to put her in our prayers. I can't fathom her on the stand. I will be doing crocodile tears on the day that Grandma Shirley takes the stand. Not sure how much is hearsay for her/will be testimony vs. all that we have read during her interview (and official legal handyman and cat assistance) at her house.

I will be crying for the money Casey stole from her grandparents. And I will be laughing when she reiterates how Casey deserves to be in general population.

I wonder - perhaps someone in this thread knows the answer, if not after a day or so and wondering minds want to know, throw the question into the legal thread for answering. (Although Mr. Hornsby did visit this thread late Monday night!)


No idea. I would guess the answer would lie with the liar. And by liar. I just mean Casey. oh but wait...she isn't responsible for any of her lies...

As to a reaction when you come upon a love on dead, in MY EXPERIENCE, it's not crying, it is termed wailing and screaming. You don't just cry/sob IMO.:rocker:

Not really. Screamers and wailers actually show emotion, if false. Casey only pokes her eyes for tears when they talk about her...not her daughter. Period.:floorlaugh:

As stated before, there this little thing called being "death qualified" and JB wants it more than anything IMO but needs the publicity to go with it.


JB has certainly milked the press for three years. I sincerely DOUBT that Casey was unaware of it. :fence:

IIRC, this has already been quashed as she had not asked to go to the doctors area where this was taped, she was guided to it. A no go! Others, chime in if you recall differently. I'm thinking that the testimony of the person that could do a verbal........hmmm....not sure if they can even testify for pretty much the same reason. Others here will know though.

This is called throw anything but the kitchen sink defense.

 

[allycat1208]

If JB would have brought up the pool drowning without George in the middle of it all, I might have believed it. Casey's actions afterwards would still have to be explained, but I could easily believe there was an accident. But George covering it up I don't buy. Also, why bring up this sexual molestation for...just to make Casey seem like a victim and explain her lies.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

For the biggest hole today was obviously in JB's opening. It seems he may have lost a couple of pages on his way to the podium. He started out pretty good but then he jumped to Kronk and then back to the pool and then on to GA's abuse - it was choppy and didn't follow a complete thought before moving on to the next.

Nope. JB lost a few pages of his statement.

 

[lemon]

Not a huge hole, but something Baez got wrong. He claimed GA HAD to have been involved in Caylee's death because during CA's 911 call she tells him Caylee is missing and GA says nothing. That is not true; I have noise canceling headphones and I can hear GA clearly.

I'm not going to transcribe the call, but it's to the effect of "George, Caylee's missing!" and GA can be heard saying "What?!". A few moments later the operator is asking CA something and CA brusquely says to someone else "I'm on the phone with them!". To me it is obvious that GA said to her "Call the police!" but you just can't hear him in the call.

@6:57 [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd5PIeefc4g[/ame]

 

[katydid23]

I think Baez stepped into a bear trap this afternoon. The state has a very detailed timeline for Casey and George for the 16th. George was at work by 3 pm.

The investigators know all of the texts and cell calls and uploads to her photo buckets and calls to Annie and Tony about Club Fusion and their movie date that night. These were from 8 am until her Dad left for work. There was a two hour gap from !0:am to 11:47 am where the tragic accident 'could' have happened. Of course then Casey would have to take a break from ' crying and crying and crying' after seeing her dead child in her father's arms, to talk to Tony for 20 minutes about plans for their movie date that night . Is Baez going to stick to that timing?

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I think Baez stepped into a bear trap this afternoon. The state has a very detailed timeline for Casey and George for the 16th. George was at work by 3 pm.

The investigators know all of the texts and cell calls and uploads to her photo buckets and calls to Annie and Tony about Club Fusion and their movie date that night. These were from 8 am until her Dad left for work. There was a two hour gap from !0:am to 11:47 am where the tragic accident 'could' have happened. Of course then Casey would have to take a break from ' crying and crying and crying' after seeing her dead child in her father's arms, to talk to Tony for 20 minutes about plans for their movie date that night . Is Baez going to stick to that timing?

Genius.

 

[Bittiness39]

Big shock: Bombshell by the Defense: Caylee is at fault. Didn't she know better than to die with triple pieces of duct tape on her face? Wow. I can't wait for the defense groupies to go there. I mean, clearly, Caylee is at fault for her own death...right? Casey has none. No idea what happened. Wasn't present. Didn't see. Because of her job...I guess...or johns...

 

[Bittiness39]

Not a huge hole, but something Baez got wrong. He claimed GA HAD to have been involved in Caylee's death because during CA's 911 call she tells him Caylee is missing and GA says nothing. That is not true; I have noise canceling headphones and I can hear GA clearly.

I'm not going to transcribe the call, but it's to the effect of "George, Caylee's missing!" and GA can be heard saying "What?!". A few moments later the operator is asking CA something and CA brusquely says to someone else "I'm on the phone with them!". To me it is obvious that GA said to her "Call the police!" but you just can't hear him in the call.

@6:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd5PIeefc4g

Awesome! I remember that and raise you another, in the last 911 call where Casey speaks, before Cindy hands over the phone and says that the police or whatever want to talk to Casey, Casey clearly says, "I have nothing to talk about" and it is on there loud and clear....period end of sentence.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Well one hole the jury might find....the fact that her parents didn't know she was pregnant right away...not so stunning to me. Yeah she looks pregnant in that picture. George said he suspected, but it wasn't confirmed at the time of the wedding. Okay we've heard already how the A's live in LaLa Land. Denial is the name of the game. Why would this be any different?

Besides, my cousin got pregnant the summer between freshman and sophomore year of college. College was soooo important to her parents that she was too terrified to tell them, so she just went back for her next semester like nothing was going on. She was only three months when she left for school...easy to hide at that point...but when she came back for Thanksgiving she was 6 1/2 months. She wore big baggy sweatshirts and they thought she just put on some weight. She was going to tell them when she got home but she didn't know my other aunt and uncle had come into town for the holiday so she had to hide it until they left, because she wanted to tell her parents in private. When she did, they were floored. If you are a certain body type or if you carry a certain way I think it's just easier to hide. And I think sometimes people see what they want to see.

There was another girl who my brother grew up with in school, a tallish skinny little girl. She got pregnant when she was still in high school. Supposedly she had no idea she was pregnant, but I think she was also just too afraid to tell. Her family also had no idea. Honest to God they flew down to Florida for a family trip to Disney and while they were there she started not feeling well and she was in a lot of pain and her parents took her to the hospital because they were worried about appendicitis and the doctors examiner her and were like um, no, she's in LABOR!

So this totally happens. If KC was young and scared I can see her doing that. I think if the defense harps too much on this point the jury is going to hold it against them.

 

[katydid23]

Big shock: Bombshell by the Defense: Caylee is at fault. Didn't she know better than to die with triple pieces of duct tape on her face? Wow. I can't wait for the defense groupies to go there. I mean, clearly, Caylee is at fault for her own death...right? Casey has none. No idea what happened. Wasn't present. Didn't see. Because of her job...I guess...or johns...

They covered the blame thing really well:
-Cindy left the stairs to the pool up.
-George looked throughout all of the house first,before checking the pool
-George found Caylee and pulled her from the water.
-So it was George who did not revive her or call 911 then

[ All Casey was left to do was grab her from his arms and cry and cry and cry...]

-George 'owns' the duct tape apparently and so he taped her face
- George left the body somewhere
- Roy Kronk found a child's body, took it home, and then put her in the woods

So I guess Casey is totally innocent of all of the charges and blame then. As a matter of fact SHE is the victim here. In middle school she had to give George oral sex before she went to school in the mornings...

 

[gngr~snap]

I think Baez stepped into a bear trap this afternoon. The state has a very detailed timeline for Casey and George for the 16th. George was at work by 3 pm.

The investigators know all of the texts and cell calls and uploads to her photo buckets and calls to Annie and Tony about Club Fusion and their movie date that night. These were from 8 am until her Dad left for work. There was a two hour gap from !0:am to 11:47 am where the tragic accident 'could' have happened. Of course then Casey would have to take a break from ' crying and crying and crying' after seeing her dead child in her father's arms, to talk to Tony for 20 minutes about plans for their movie date that night . Is Baez going to stick to that timing?

ICA said it. It was only D R A M A!

 

[lemon]

About the As not knowing KC was pregnant. Be it parental denial or a girl wearing baggy clothes - come on, we ALL know this happens pretty often. Many, many girls and women have hidden pregnancy from the people they live with. Not to be insensitive to the topic but it happens often enough that they've poked fun at it on Family Guy (a song called Prom Night Dumpster Baby). Heck, some women have gone through an entire pregnancy and not even known it themselves. There's an entire show about it http://health.discovery.com/tv/i-didnt-know-i-was-pregnant/

So yes, it is concerning that you wouldn't know your daughter was pregnant but it's not unheard of by any means. It irked me that JB was insinuating otherwise.

 

[Pugnolia]

JB's creative scenario of Caylee's death and disposal of her body, seems to go something like this:

~Caylee dies in a drowning accident.

~George and Casey find her - too late.

~Although Casey acknowledges (according to JB on 5-24-11) the cause of death to be drowning, they, nevertheless, attempt to throw off LE and Cindy as to the whereabouts of Caylee, by hiding her body, because otherwise Cindy will be really angry with Casey.

~So they must hide Caylee and stage it to look like a kidnapping and murder - after all, in their minds, Cindy would probably be happier with this cause of death rather than from an unfortunate accident.

~Meanwhile, Casey concocts the Nanny story for Cindy's benefit, while at the same time she and George discard Caylee somewhere, bound in tape and wrapped in plastic bags, staging the appearance of a violent crime.

~Or maybe they did not bind and bag her, but someone else did.

~Enter the Meter Man. He unwittingly finds Caylee somewhere, and knowing immediately that there is to be huge reward money which had not even been formulated yet, he decides to keep her for a few months before he places her in the woody swamp.

~He returns to find Caylee and claim his reward.

~Meanwhile George remains stoic and unruffled with his knowledge of events surrounding Caylee's death and disappearance, while the search for Caylee goes on around him.


Where did they find this Lawyer, DisneyWorld?