Billings -Couple with 12 adopted children murdered #4

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BTW, I am surprised no one mentioned this 'til now, but Ms. Pam Long Wiggins is married to current hubby, the source of information as to where the safe was, Mr. Wiggins... but a hubby from one or two marriages back is saying he can't seem to get a divorce from her... outside of Florida there is a name for that -- bigamy.

So, is she still legally Pamela Long Malden? Or perhaps even a different name, from yet an earlier "unresolved" marriage?
 
Night all see you tomorrow. Get some rest. We all need it.
 
Until I see an official link or report on who is REALLY in those videos, I will not be satisfied. For all we know the San Diego stuff is a front or these people have connections all over the place... Who knows what the MO is -- for all intents and purposes Vespa unless you have personal knowledge this isn't her....

Respectfully, I will not believe this person is connected to this case unless I see an official link or report that specifically links this person to this case.

Her being connected to this case is pure speculation, IMHO.
 
BTW, I am surprised no one mentioned this 'til now, but Ms. Pam Long is married to current hubby... but a hubby from one or two marriages back is saying he can't seem to get a divorce from her... outside of Florida there is a name for that -- bigamy.

Is she still legally Pamela Malden?

It's been mentioned, I think the posts may be in the "under review" thread.

All of my life I can remember hearing that supposedly a person could only be married and divorced so many times, seems like it was 7 times and anything over that wouldn't count and/or you couldn't be issued a license.

I've never bothered to check in to see if that tale was true or not, but when going through her marriages I remembered hearing it and thought, dang this chick has either exceeded her limit or is at it.

Gonna be a special edition of the Springer show if what he claims is true.
 
It's been mentioned, I think the posts may be in the "under review" thread.

All of my life I can remember hearing that supposedly a person could only be married and divorced so many times, seems like it was 7 times and anything over that wouldn't count and/or you couldn't be issued a license.

I've never bothered to check in to see if that tale was true or not, but when going through her marriages I remembered hearing it and thought, dang this chick has either exceeded her limit or is at it.

Gonna be a special edition of the Springer show if what he claims is true.

WOW...if that is correct, I have an ex-brother-in-law that is wayyy over his limit! LOL
 
There has been much discussion on this topic in the first two threads. I'm going to go out on a limb here and tell you in MY OPINION, BB did not have criminal/fraudulent motives for filing these documents. It has been said here (prior thread) by a friend of the family that he was using these documents to "protect the children". He was told to cease and desist with the letters, they would not hold up in a court of law. Since we have Sunshine laws, anything put through the courts remain documented for the public. In my opinion, from all I have read, they loved the children and the adoptions/documents of copyrights were not the motive here.

I must respectfully disagree as to the purpose of these trademark/copyright documents. I would love to see proof of just 1 instance where these documents have ever been held up in court when challenged or have been endorsed, advocated or promoted as documents that actually have a legal purpose by a legitimate legal source or attorney. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I know that myself and at least 1 other atty in these threads have explained the reasons these are bogus documents and agreed that they have no legitimate or legal purpose. I would think that after discovering BB used these documents to basically attempt and extort millions of $$ from government agencies, the motives behind these documents would become clear to even non-lawyers. These documents do NOT offer any type of protection to an individual, whether minor or adult. At this point, a debate over what BB's motive behind executing these docs seems rather moot and really just makes an already confusing story to follow, even more confusing.

Just b/c these documents were not on the up and up, does not mean they led to the murders in any way whatsover, but they are what they are and should stand on their own at this point. If you can cite anything to prove just 1 of the things I listed above, I would love to see it and would love to debate the validity of the information, but your opinion with no supporting information is just making this thread longer and confusing newbies.
 
I thought that only applied in certain cases? Such as adoption from a foster care or other state/gov't facility.

The family I know that adopted special needs kids, receive nada from the state/gov't due to it having been a private adoption arranged through a church.

You are correct! This makes me even more curious how BB has amassed so much wealth from a few used car lots and a finance/repo business while laying out enormous monthly expenditures on medical needs and on-call staff. Must be a booming business in used cars in Florida! Of course, I've never seen any confirmation that the adoptions were through private parties only. Wasn't he getting mail from DCF? And that was why he sent them the "copyright infringement" letters?
 
WOW...if that is correct, I have an ex-brother-in-law that is wayyy over his limit! LOL

lol!! Like I said, I don't know how true it is, it may be just one of those old wives tales type of things.

Every time a wedding or a divorce came up in the family, that was the first thing my grandmother would bring up.
 
Has anyone seen the actual docs. referenced in PNJ's articles today??
 
dang...wish this case had a forum! Post after post after post about the creepy, masked whack-a-doodle with her child trafficking rants....multiple posts about Blue being in the house which causes more multiple posts explaining the mistake....mega posts about Myspace or facebook accts. being in Pensacola, or Alabama, etc. ARGHHHHHHHHH

We really, really need a forum.

I keep begging also, and no reponse..........
 
dang...wish this case had a forum! Post after post after post about the creepy, masked whack-a-doodle with her child trafficking rants....multiple posts about Blue being in the house which causes more multiple posts explaining the mistake....mega posts about Myspace or facebook accts. being in Pensacola, or Alabama, etc. ARGHHHHHHHHH

We really, really need a forum.

I keep begging also, and no reponse..........this is going to get HUGE!!!
 
Now THAT Is interesting because I specifically looked for CT Transmissions on 5th dimensions friends list the other day and it wasn't there!!! VERY VERY interesting!!!!

Hi! I know I'm new here but I've been following all 4 threads since the beginning. As far as CT Transmissions goes, they have almost 5,000 friends because they basically have nothing else to do but send friend requests to anybody and everybody in Pensacola. I know a lot of people that have them as friends because they sent them a friend request but have never done business with them or even know them. I have received a couple of requests from them but never accepted them. Just my .02 cents.
 
You are correct! This makes me even more curious how BB has amassed so much wealth from a few used car lots and a finance/repo business while laying out enormous monthly expenditures on medical needs and on-call staff. Must be a booming business in used cars in Florida! Of course, I've never seen any confirmation that the adoptions were through private parties only. Wasn't he getting mail from DCF? And that was why he sent them the "copyright infringement" letters?

It's my understanding that only 2 of the children were adopted through the state, hence DCF's involvement, the remainder were private.

As far as money goes, he could've won a nice slice of the lotto pie for all I know. That's how my uncle just across the state line was able to retire early.

I haven't had time to look through real estate dealings he may of done, been too occupied with Jr. and his dramas and Mrs. Pam Too many names.

The work I did while I was there was individual management, meaning I got paid from doing things such as paying bills, to calling and making dinner reservations, because the people were too busy, unavailable or too lazy to do it themselves and I can tell you, in Gulf Breeze, it was nothing to see profits of $2-3 mil a year, from real estate.

Not saying that's what the Billingses did, but if you are well connected and play it right you can make dang good money and fast.
 
I guess I can't lurk any longer. I have been reading the Billings Murder forum with great interest as my husband and I are the parents of 15. Twelve of our children are adopted (almost all with myriad special needs). I worked for 15 years as the Oregon and Far Northern California Representative for the North American Council on Adoptable Children (NACAC). My specialty was post adoptive services and subsidies. I was an authorized legal representative for families in fair hearings with the State and SSA. I retired in 2005 due to sudden and severe disability and am bedbound. Maybe I can clear up a few issues concerning adoption assistance.

The issue of prior felony arrests and approval for adoption homestudy has come up. I would refer you to this info:

"The Adoption and Safe Families Act and Title IV-E of the Social Security Act bans potential adoptive and foster parents who have a felony conviction for child abuse or neglect ; spousal abuse; crime against children; or violent crime (excluding felony assault or battery). Potential adoptive and foster parents are also barred if, within the last five years, they've had a felony conviction for physical assault, battery or drug-related offenses."

I'm certain that the state of Florida (just as every state) must follow the federal mandate on this issue. No adoption is exempt as all adoptions require an approved homestudy and a period of licensed supervision for a child--usually 6 months to 12 months--before a legal adoption can take place. After an adoption is completed, the child has the same legal standing as a biological child and the birth certificate is modifed to reflect that fact. Thank you to those posters who have been kind and appropriate about recognizing this fact.

A recent poster brought up the issue of shuffling special needs children from adoptive home to adoptive home. Interestingly enough, Florida has had a great deal of problem with this. Families who adopt a particular child and receive federal or state assistance have been noted to re-place the child elsewhere and privately pay for the child's care. This is often not found to be legal. However, I don't see this as an issue in this case.

In reading carefully through each and every post, I would agree that it seems as if the Billings have privately adopted most of their children. Just to be clear, this does not preclude the receipt of adoption assistance. Federal IV-E adoption assistance as set forth in the Child Welfare Act of 1980 is linked to the birth family's income and possible receipt of welfare funds at the time of the child's birth. Therefore, even privately adopted children can be found eligible for AAP. It is just not the norm. To access these funds, an adoptive family would need to appeal to the state and request a fair hearing on the issue. This was my specialty. I have no doubt that the Billings were tireless advocates for their children.

Adoption assistance is a very touchy subject with the general public. Most have no true grasp on the actual funding required to raise a special needs child. The US government recognized the barriers and disincentives to adoptions such as these and set forth a type of entitlement program for these children with monthly subsidies and full medical coverage through the age of 21 (18 in some states).

For a child with Spectrum Disorders (autism) or Down Syndrome, that subsidy can be any amount between approximately $500-3000/month (Please note: this is my approximation) depending on the state and the level of advocacy for that child. AAP can be equal to but never more than the appropriate level of foster care subsidy for a child. The money is paid to the parents for the extraordinary care (specialized respite, property repair and replacement, "eyes-on supervision) required by the child and the medical card and the educational component would be the source of all medical care, pharmaceuticals, and therapies, etc.

Any adoptive family, or those close to adoptive families, know and understand these facts. The general public, however, gets stuck on the issue of "paying a parent to love a child". For this reason, any wise and experienced adoptive family is very cautious about allowing this information into print. Let me assure you, there are thousands of fabulous adoptive families raising large and vibrant groups of children with love and compassion. AAP is an incentive to placement and a facilitator of success. Money does not by love.

I have no reason to doubt that the Billings family had private wealth and therefore was able to adopt without funding. I have to say, though, that I am shocked that they would have had a homestudy approved after the adoption fraud issue. My point is that if they had pursued funding, they could have been eligible to receive AAP in excess of $10,000/month (and possibly much more) for nine special needs children. That would not be unusual in the special needs adoption world. The funding is usually directly deposited in a bank account and no audit allowed of how that funding is spent (per federal law--see links below). Once the initial negotiations are completed, the AAP continues unabated unless the parent requests a change in payment, is no longer financially responsible for the child or the child enters the military or marries. Due to changes in the law about 7 years ago, the AAP can be reassigned upon a parent's death to a family member. Interestingly enough, Florida's law is contrary to the federal law in stating that the assistance is re-negotiated every year. The federal law states that it is "re-certified" each year.

I am touched by the fact that Mom23gr8kids has posted. My sincerest condolences go out to you in your time of loss. I certainly know how teachers and therapists become part of the team and community of raising, educating, and loving special needs children. The children are fortunate to have you in their lives. However, I respectfully disagree with your comment:

"Melanie and I discussed this many times. She told me specifically that the children adopted via private adoption did not receive SSI, however they had negotiated that they would receive Medicaid as part of the private adoption, since the children were uninsurable because of so many health issues."

The federal Medicaid program is not one which can be negotiated. A child either has an eligibility factor or they don't. It is entirely possible that the children were found categorically eligible for SSI but ineligible to receive payments due to the Billings' reported income. In a small number of cases, however, they would have been able to receive a medical card.

I hope this clears up a few questions. Please know that the adoption world, especially those of us with large and special needs families, is reeling with pain over this horrific crime.

If you have any further questions, please ask. I also suggest that you peruse my council's website concerning any other issues of adoption or subsidies. It is:

www.nacac.org

The federal Children's Bureau website concerning laws and regulations on adoption, homestudies, and subsidies can be found here:

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/fri/index.htm

May I commend you on incredibly creative and tireless sleuthing!!
 
Melanie and I discussed this many times. She told me specifically that the children adopted via private adoption did not receive SSI, however they had negotiated that they would receive Medicaid as part of the private adoption, since the children were uninsurable because of so many health issues.

How were these adoptions arranged, through an agency, an attorney ?
How could they nogotiate that the state provide medicaid if they weren't in state care ? A private attorney wouldn't be able to arrange medicaid would he ?
 
You are correct! This makes me even more curious how BB has amassed so much wealth from a few used car lots and a finance/repo business while laying out enormous monthly expenditures on medical needs and on-call staff. Must be a booming business in used cars in Florida! Of course, I've never seen any confirmation that the adoptions were through private parties only. Wasn't he getting mail from DCF? And that was why he sent them the "copyright infringement" letters?

Respectfully, I will not believe this person is connected to this case unless I see an official link or report that specifically links this person to this case.

Her being connected to this case is pure speculation, IMHO.

I don't know how much more of a suspect she could be, for God sakes, she hoped that both murder victims (the Billings) "BURN in HELL"! That makes her a prime suspect in my opinion... My God, what kind of a hint would get your attention??! I still suspect she is LPGjr's wife TG.
 
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