Black Mark On Her Mandible

[WolfmarsGirl]

I wonder if were looking at that mark from the wrong angle? If you turn the photo upside down the mark looks very much like a bruise you'd get if someone was pushing a thumb down on the skin - the two oval marks look like fingernail impressions. Do you think two people could have picked her up and laid her down and one of them was trying to find a pulse? Or, do you think it's possible that someone grabbed her by the face to get her attention and his/her thumb pressing into her jawline caused that mark?

In my opinion, either of these scenarios is more plausible than a stun gun.

The only reason I do not think it is a bruise from a thumb or a blunt object is because there is a distinct pattern within the large mark on her face.

http://www.geocities.com/wolfchick942003/photopage.html

Please see my link again. You can see the strange pattern formed by what looks like a series of tiny rectangles. The greenish image is of the actual mark on her face. In my opinion, these tiny rectangles are certainly the impressions made by four-pronged-set stones of a large cluster ring. The smaller single rectangular marks on her back were caused by single stones with four prongs.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

So, here you can see Patsy's large cluster ring on her right hand. This ring would leave the large, round mark we are discussing.

On her left hand, it looks like she is wearing two rings - one on her middle and one on her ring finger. The one we can see appears to be a large, single stone. I cannot see the stone on the other ring, but I can see the band. These two rings would make the marks on JBR's lower back.

All three rings are turned backwards. I believe this photo was taken from the CNN interview a few days after the crime. Patsy was probably wearing close to the same jewelry on that date.

Get it?

 

[kactres]

excellent work with the ring theory...good common sense also...!!

K

 

[angelwngs]

So, here you can see Patsy's large cluster ring on her right hand. This ring would leave the large, round mark we are discussing.

On her left hand, it looks like she is wearing two rings - one on her middle and one on her ring finger. The one we can see appears to be a large, single stone. I cannot see the stone on the other ring, but I can see the band. These two rings would make the marks on JBR's lower back.

All three rings are turned backwards. I believe this photo was taken from the CNN interview a few days after the crime. Patsy was probably wearing close to the same jewelry on that date.

Get it?http://mywebpage.netscape.com/maxiyorkie/JBRPatsyrings2.jpg

The ring information is excellent sleuthing!:clap: :clap: :clap:

But, I would put money on it that the Ramsey 'public relations machine' suggested that Patsy turn her rings around backwards on national tv in order to elicit more sympathetic feedback from the interview. If not the public relations machine, I bet she and/or John devised the idea herself/himself/themselves... Flaunting affluency with expensive jewelry doesn't generally encourage 'the masses' to feel sorry for you... :snooty:

 

[BBB167893]

WMG's the greatest!

 

[Toltec]

Reddish-brown abrasions mean the victim received the marks before death.

Light brownish abrasions mean the victim received the marks near his last breath.

Yellow parchment abrasions mean the victim received the marks after death.

This info came from a James Patterson novel so I don't know if it's accurate.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

WMG's the greatest!

:blushing:

I only tell it like I see it - thanks again Super Dave...

 

[T-Rex]

I put a piece of tape on my inner thigh. (Never mind why--I'm just stupid.) When I yanked it off, it left a purple mark just like the one on her face.

 

[lovebites]

I also wanted to add that LE was very interested in Patsy's rings - at least for a moment. I am not sure where the quote is located, but at one point, an examiner asked Patsy if she usually removed her jewelry at night. Then, he specifically mentioned, "rings."

I don't know if that line of questioning means much, but they must have been going somewhere with it, right?

You're very informative WolfmansGirl - thank you! I know I'm days behind, but for some reason I thought this thread had died. Maybe it's time to get my eyes checked.



Actually, thank you to everyone who has supplied info and theories here

 

[lovebites]

The only reason I do not think it is a bruise from a thumb or a blunt object is because there is a distinct pattern within the large mark on her face.

http://www.geocities.com/wolfchick942003/photopage.html

Please see my link again. You can see the strange pattern formed by what looks like a series of tiny rectangles. The greenish image is of the actual mark on her face. In my opinion, these tiny rectangles are certainly the impressions made by four-pronged-set stones of a large cluster ring. The smaller single rectangular marks on her back were caused by single stones with four prongs.

I just looked at this.........wow!

 

[BBB167893]

I call 'em as I see 'em, too, WMG.

You're welcome.

 

[Trocaria]

WMG:


Good work!

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

WMG:


Good work!

Thank you Trocaria

I just wish LE or someone would attempt to locate Patsy's rings once and for all. Sadly, I am sure they were either burried with PR or they were given to a sister - which is just as good as burried.

At the very least, there should be photos of PR at the White's wearing her rings. I always wondered what these photos must contain and why they have not been released or leaked.

 

[BBB167893]

"I just wish LE or someone would attempt to locate Patsy's rings once and for all. Sadly, I am sure they were either burried with PR or they were given to a sister - which is just as good as burried."

Or "stolen" in that phony break-in!

 

[BloodshotEye]

I am waiting for this trauma surgeon (at a local teaching hospital), to have time to comment on the head wound. Looks like it might be when there is a break in the fall.

In the meantime, these nearly "circular" marks, have always been of interest to me as well. For the past years, on and off - as I work around the house, yard and car, I am wondering about the mark that various fasteners, surfaces and personal effects (I'll call this the surface or item X), might cause. I am wishing for more information on these marks. Were they raised or slightly raised? By how much? What do they look like with a scanning electron microscope? Is there any charring or is that levidity? What does the normal tissue margin look like? Need more information.

Levidity is the wild card for me. Wondering how much/if this contributed to the look of this mark, or if the coloration was caused by the surface characteristics of the "implement" I will call "Item X".

Here is my wacky musing.
Something another poster wrote in another thread, gave me more than just a slight pause. I'll snip a quite here...

Posted by Darlene 733510, on 09-07-2006, 10:26 PM
The thread was about "Evidence against PR You might not know about (or something like that).

I think that when FW went down to the basement the first time that the body was not in the wine cellar, and that is why he was so upset when JR found the body there. When JR disappeared, he went to the basement and put it there.
I have a heavy duty clothes dryer. A child the size of JB could easily fit in there. Throw a blanket on top and it would not even be noticed. Some of the bruises could have been from putting her in, or taking her out. There are raised ridges in my dryer, 3 of them that are at least 16" long least 6 " high. I guess to see what I mean you will have to look inside your dryer. R's probably had a commercial dryer, or one even larger than mine, because I remember that in part of the questioning it was stated that they used the washer and dryer down there for quilts, rugs, etc.

This stopped me cold, I must say. It brought to mind, the time I reached into a very hot dryer, and rested the back of my hand on the interior of the dryer surface, just a little too long. Man that hurt. I recoiled, and looked at my hand. It had one very well defined red circle, and maybe two or three half-circles where my hand was burned. About one hour later, one of those marks was most definitely visable as a small round circle, nearly the size of the little eraser tip on the end of a typical pencil. It was slightly raised, and pink.

Here is my speculation, based on Darlene's post:
Imagine that JBR was hidden in the dryer (shortly after death?). Part of clothing, parts of the blanket, prevented most of her body from coming within contact with the interior of the dryer. However, perhaps there was a pressure contact point between her jaw/lower facial area, and the back. I know this sounds implausible to have both contact points at the same time. However, if the body is lifeless, and was stuffed in the dryer, she would fold and twist in a rather unnatural position.

Given this scenario, JBR would have been moved a second time, as Darlene suggests.

As always, thanks for humoring me. I just want to keep evaluating and re-thinking about what caused these nearly perfectly circular marks. Really interesting comments and theories here.

 

[Seeker]

"I just wish LE or someone would attempt to locate Patsy's rings once and for all. Sadly, I am sure they were either burried with PR or they were given to a sister - which is just as good as burried."

Or "stolen" in that phony break-in!

Naw, remember Dave, it was only Patsy's "K-Mart jewelery" that the "well dressed black man intruder" got. That and Burke's laptop computer...

A very convenient burglary... no guns were stolen, no other expensive items, just that one laptop and some K-Mart jewelery...and of course it all happened while Lin Wood was on tv bragging again.

 

[BirdieBoo]

This stopped me cold, I must say. It brought to mind, the time I reached into a very hot dryer, and rested the back of my hand on the interior of the dryer surface, just a little too long. Man that hurt. I recoiled, and looked at my hand. It had one very well defined red circle, and maybe two or three half-circles where my hand was burned. About one hour later, one of those marks was most definitely visable as a small round circle, nearly the size of the little eraser tip on the end of a typical pencil. It was slightly raised, and pink.

Here is my speculation, based on Darlene's post:
Imagine that JBR was hidden in the dryer (shortly after death?). Part of clothing, parts of the blanket, prevented most of her body from coming within contact with the interior of the dryer. However, perhaps there was a pressure contact point between her jaw/lower facial area, and the back. I know this sounds implausible to have both contact points at the same time. However, if the body is lifeless, and was stuffed in the dryer, she would fold and twist in a rather unnatural position.

Given this scenario, JBR would have been moved a second time, as Darlene suggests.

As always, thanks for humoring me. I just want to keep evaluating and re-thinking about what caused these nearly perfectly circular marks. Really interesting comments and theories here.

A child being put in a dryer and dryer turned on would likely also experience blunt force head trauma. Also the child would have all sorts of fibers on their body after that.

 

[BBB167893]

Not necessarily turned on.

"Naw, remember Dave, it was only Patsy's "K-Mart jewelery" that the "well dressed black man intruder" got. That and Burke's laptop computer...

A very convenient burglary... no guns were stolen, no other expensive items, just that one laptop and some K-Mart jewelery...and of course it all happened while Lin Wood was on tv bragging again."

My point exactly!

 

[BloodshotEye]

Right, SuperDave. In the Dryer (as Darlene733510 suggested), just long enough to hide the body from family members until it was "time" to "discover" the body.

And again, as Darlene speculated, perhaps JR took the body out of the dryer hiding place, when a search of the house did not yield the body. He had to put the body in a more obvious place, to hasten the discovery. Darlene further speculated that this may be why FW seemed incredulous that the body was found in the wine celler, after he had already checked same.

Very interesting theory advanced by Darlene733510, that might account for a curious interval of time during the house search, the locked/unlocked wine cellar door, FW's comments, and as BirdieBoo above suggests - JR's bathrobe (?) lint found on JBR. And quite possibly, those odd circular marks on the face and back.


Fascinating work, WolfMarsGirl.

 

[lovebites]

Right, SuperDave. In the Dryer (as Darlene733510 suggested), just long enough to hide the body from family members until it was "time" to "discover" the body.

And again, as Darlene speculated, perhaps JR took the body out of the dryer hiding place, when a search of the house did not yield the body. He had to put the body in a more obvious place, to hasten the discovery. Darlene further speculated that this may be why FW seemed incredulous that the body was found in the wine celler, after he had already checked same.

Very interesting theory advanced by Darlene733510, that might account for a curious interval of time during the house search, the locked/unlocked wine cellar door, FW's comments, and as BirdieBoo above suggests - JR's bathrobe (?) lint found on JBR. And quite possibly, those odd circular marks on the face and back.


Fascinating work, WolfMarsGirl.

Just a question, but wouldn't rigor have set the body in an odd position (rather than straight as a board) if it had been in a bent/crumpled position in a dryer?