I think if the person cannot willingly leave the vehicle, it's kidnapping.
If I go willingly for a test drive with potential buyers, and we drive out into the 'country' (which is where they already were, and would make sense to drive on the country roads), went a long distance, and then they stopped the truck and said.. 'get out, so long, sorry about your luck, we're taking your truck'.. was I kidnapped?
How do we know they didn't use a silencer on the gun?
I had the impression that the video was from a neighbouring home, so likely close to TB's home.. but then again, maybe not, who knows? To have stopped and let MS out of TB's vehicle to get into DM's vehicle, would have meant TB would have known by then that he was in serious trouble, if not already dead. (IMO)
If I go willingly for a test drive with potential buyers, and we drive out into the 'country' (which is where they already were, and would make sense to drive on the country roads), went a long distance, and then they stopped the truck and said.. 'get out, so long, sorry about your luck, we're taking your truck'.. was I kidnapped?
How do you know that the plan wasn't simply to steal a truck, and nothing about kidnapping or murder? TB went willingly with them for a test drive. What if the plan had been to do that and just drop him off in the middle of nowhere/countryside, take the truck quickly to the hangar for stripping of VIN, repainting, etc., but then the plan went awry because someone happened to bring a gun and shoot TB instead? For that matter, how do you know that the plan was to even steal a truck? I'm not sure that we know yet, what their plan was?
Don't get me wrong.. I was shocked at how much evidence the Crown says they have, and I don't see a way in hell how DM will even present a defence. If MS was part of the plan, and there and present at the time of the murder, then he is screwed too.. just saying we don't really know these things just yet.
I would assume they took the back roads as well. Taking Wilson to Brantford is very little business mostly farms and less likely to be seen. Turning towards the 403 would take you past Tim Horton's Canadian Tire, gas stations, Wendy's, Walmart, Goodlife Fitness and various other business in that plaza. There is also a bar and restaurant where Garner rd. meets Wilson. There is also car dealers and big industrial park on Tradewinds. This area is always fairly busy and well lit and multilane road. Taking Wilson to Brantford is also only a 1 lane road, not as well lit and fairly quiet at that time of night. I am assuming where the cell phone was found is where they moved Tim to the back seat as they were going to reach a more populated area and the phone fell out of his pocket.
possibly abducted?
No.
279. (1) Every person commits an offence who kidnaps a person with intent
(a) to cause the person to be confined or imprisoned against the person’s will;
(b) to cause the person to be unlawfully sent or transported out of Canada against the person’s will; or
(c) to hold the person for ransom or to service against the person’s will.
Do any of those apply.... I am saying that IF the original plan was just to steal the truck?
I was just raising the possibility that MS may not have been privy to the larger plan.
IF the plan was just to steal the truck, as far as MS knew, and they took TB for a test drive and then let him out of the truck in the middle of nowhere unharmed.. would any of those definitions of kidnapping apply?
If I went willingly, and then instead of being brought home, I was dropped off in the middle of nowhere, so they could steal my truck.. I think the charge would be theft, not kidnapping? It would be mean and cruel, but I don't think it would be kidnapping, abduction, or forcible confinement.. because I may not have even known yet, until the point of drop off, what was going on, may not have tried or wanted to leave, etc. JMO
Once TB could not leave the vehicle unharmed it was kidnap and confinement. And their intent was to steal a truck by also "taking" the owner so they could get the truck and the keys. TB obviously could not safely exit the vehicle as it appears he did not. But you'll also notice that they appear to be charged with first degree premeditated murder. So obviously the Crown believes that kidnapping, confining and killing the driver was always the intent. I'm just giving my opinion as to why I'm not sure about that. But either way, it's still first degree murder.
MOO
Do any of those apply.... I am saying that IF the original plan was just to steal the truck?
I was just raising the possibility that MS may not have been privy to the larger plan.
IF the plan was just to steal the truck, as far as MS knew, and they took TB for a test drive and then let him out of the truck in the middle of nowhere unharmed.. would any of those definitions of kidnapping apply?
Then why have the gun? There were two guys against one.