Bosma Murder Trial 02.03.16 - Day 3

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DeepWoodsOff said:
I was pondering this as well. IMO....they were definitely in tune with the fact that cell phones can be tracked. They both turned their personal phones off before they got to Bosma's house AND they turned off the BATE phone after they left on the test drive. So they knew the phone could lead LE to them. The question would then become, why not earlier?

My hunch is they killed Tim shortly after leaving the driveway, picked up the other vehicle and then didn't stop until they got to the Brantford area where they were able to get the phone off of Tim's person and discard it. The area near Kemira would be very dark at that time of night with pretty much no traffic. They may have even stopped in the driveway of the business to adjust their passenger. It would be interesting to see if the phone was up against the fence along the road or closer to the side of the driveway. I'm rambling now... MOO...completely theoretical at this point.
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Up until the phone was switched off, and during the drive to the Kemira location, Tim's phone surely must have been going off from SB's calls and texts. We know the ringer was turned on from the testimony today that it kept "dinging" when the phone was turned on. Maybe this scared DM and MS and prompted them to dispose of the phone immediately and it was thrown out of the vehicle?
 
amis_ said:
Up until the phone was switched off, and during the drive to the Kemira location, Tim's phone surely must have been going off from SB's calls and texts. We know the ringer was turned on from the testimony today that it kept "dinging" when the phone was turned on. Maybe this scared DM and MS and prompted them to dispose of the phone immediately and it was thrown out of the vehicle?
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Actually, according to SB's testimony, it would have been around 10pm when she first started to call him and text him wouldn't it? Do we have the exact time she first tried to contact his phone? Is that what prompted them to find the phone and shut it down? Or did she start after it was shut down?
 
Kamille said:
Actually, according to SB's testimony, it would have been around 10pm when she first started to call him and text him wouldn't it? Do we have the exact time she first tried to contact his phone? Is that what prompted them to find the phone and shut it down? Or did she start after it was shut down?
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After more thought, do we know if the phone went straight to voicemail/turned off when SB started calling around 10pm? I will try to look back for this. If thats the case then this theory is "out the window"
 
amis_ said:
After more thought, do we know if the phone went straight to voicemail/turned off when SB started calling around 10pm? I will try to look back for this. If thats the case then this theory is "out the window"
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SB said it was around 10:20pm that she called him, it went straight to voicemail. Then texted him.

Adam Carter
Feb 1 2016 3:16 PM
She watched a show on PVR. At 10:20 p.m. she was alarmed because he hadn't come home yet. She called him and it went right to voice mail.


Feb 1 2016 3:17 PM
Then she texted him about 10:22. She said "Where are you?" but didn't get any response. She texted her downstairs neighbour, and now was worried.
 
meterclicks said:
SB said it was around 10:20pm that she texted him and then she tried calling after getting no response, it went straight to voicemail
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Thanks. So unless another friend/contact had tried to call him earlier, the phone wouldn't have been attracting much attention. But like another poster stated, these two (well DM anyway) were attuned to cell phones being used to trace people, hence the burner phone.

MOO
 
redheart said:
Peter Akman ‏@PeterAkmanCTV 6m6 minutes ago
On each of the toes of #MarkSmich's shoes he has the word "PACIFIC" written in blue ink #TimBosma murder trial.
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Good one MS. JMO.

pacific...
The way people who aren't smart (but think they are) say "specific". Used mostly by people who elect to represent themselves during a criminal trial, and dummies who don't understand questions during a job interview and want to buy more time in order to think of a good bull-**** lie. You should never correct someone who says "pacific" instead of "specific" because it is a very easy way to instantly guage IQ.
Uh... I don't know which robbery you are talking about Your Honor. Can you please be more pacific?


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pacific
 
I haven't caught up yet so it may have already been mentioned:

if Liz from Kemira just cleaned up the phone and turned it on, (and all the text notifications came flooding in - which is exactly what they do if the phone has been off, then turned back on) and called the "home" button, the battery in that phone wasn't dead. Unless she charged it first but I never saw any mention of that. Also, since we now know Tim had a Samsung phone, and that phone accessed a web browser an HOUR after Tim left his house, the screen would have timed out. One of those guys HAD to have turned it on, swiped to unlock the screen, and hit the web browser on purpose. Even if Tim didn't have an actual "lock" like a passcode or whatever, you still have to swipe the screen to access the apps.

And let me just say, God bless poor Liz. She must have been beside herself :( I know I would have been.
 
Ontario Mom said:
I haven't caught up yet so it may have already been mentioned:

if Liz from Kemira just cleaned up the phone and turned it on, (and all the text notifications came flooding in - which is exactly what they do if the phone has been off, then turned back on) and called the "home" button, the battery in that phone wasn't dead. Unless she charged it first but I never saw any mention of that. Also, since we now know Tim had a Samsung phone, and that phone accessed a web browser an HOUR after Tim left his house, the screen would have timed out. One of those guys HAD to have turned it on, swiped to unlock the screen, and hit the web browser on purpose. Even if Tim didn't have an actual "lock" like a passcode or whatever, you still have to swipe the screen to access the apps.

And let me just say, God bless poor Liz. She must have been beside herself :( I know I would have been.
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There's mention of the phone being "plugged in" before the texts started coming through.

Roswell testified that when the phone was plugged in, it started “pinging” as text after text “kept popping up.”
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/detective-describes-early-days-of-investigation-into-death-of-tim-bosma/article28533965/
 
Gibson67 said:
why did they even throw it out at all?..why not keep it and destroy it with Tim? Do you think they stopped here and maybe this is where Tim was killed? Maybe the phone fell out?
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I am wondering if it was part of the plan to enter doubt into the picture in regard to TB's potential personal motives for his disappearance.

It seems that DM and MS did not necessarily have a lot of information on their victim in advance of the TB test drive. Who would have thought, really, that such a large search, police involvement and media attention would happen so quickly? I have always understood that police wait 24hours before doing *anything* about an adult missing person. This case seemed special just because of the unique set of circumstances and specific individuals. I wonder if they threw the cellphone, thinking that it may create that niggling of doubt as to whether TB *chose* to disappear from his current life.

I truly believe that had it not been for the 'ambition' tattoo being noticed by other kijiji truck-sellers, they may have gotten away with murder. Except for that fact that they each seemed to have loose lips, of course. If the tatt hadn't been noticed, all LE really had was a description of 2 individuals from 10 feet away in a dingy garage.. no vehicle description; a burner phone with a fake ID making the contacts; LE may not have ever known there was ever a murder, or even a stolen truck (VIN removed), and it would have potentially been one of those forever unsolved cases of a man who just disappeared from his life.

In the Crown's opening statements, it was stated that both DM's and MS's phones were turned off immediately after the 3 began their test drive, and while TB was in the truck with the 2 men. But TB's phone, and sounds like the burner phone, were not turned off. If TB's phone was found turned off and ditched at some future point in time, it could have potentially looked like TB ditched it himself on his way out of his old life and into his new. Except that the plan failed, thanks to the tatt, and instead they got caught very quickly, and sounds like with all kinds of proof.
 
so then someone had a samsung charger on hand? makes no sense..to me if the phone was shut off then it would still have battery life when turned on again..and the flood of texts would come through. I guess because Liz had cleaned it off the prints on the phone would have been cleaned too. If Tim was already dead and there was so much blood as they describe..would the phone not have blood on it too then? It will be interesting to see when Tim was killed.
 
Gibson67 said:
so then someone had a samsung charger on hand? makes no sense..to me if the phone was shut off then it would still have battery life when turned on again..and the flood of texts would come through. I guess because Liz had cleaned it off the prints on the phone would have been cleaned too. If Tim was already dead and there was so much blood as they describe..would the phone not have blood on it too then? It will be interesting to see when Tim was killed.
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Thoughts:

Android phones usually have universal USB chargers. Not weird that someone would have one on hand.

Android phones are not known for their robust battery life.

And finally: it was the end of the day; the battery might have already been low. Sitting outdoors for a few nights before it was found (even when turned off) could have been enough to kill it, especially if it was an older phone with a sketchy battery.

I'd love it if someone could make some sort of timeline/map that shows all the phones, when they turned off and on, where they were found, etc.

We also need a visual aid to show where Tim's truck is in the timeline. :\ I can tell from posts that a lot of you are doing a good job of keeping these details in your head, but I'm not.
 
Gibson67 said:
so then someone had a samsung charger on hand? makes no sense..to me if the phone was shut off then it would still have battery life when turned on again..and the flood of texts would come through. I guess because Liz had cleaned it off the prints on the phone would have been cleaned too. If Tim was already dead and there was so much blood as they describe..would the phone not have blood on it too then? It will be interesting to see when Tim was killed.
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Yes they did. That is sworn evidence, not up for debate. Everyone carries a charger in their car. I have an IPhone charger in my purse at all times. I'm sure there was at least one employee with a Samsung charger that fit that phone.

A shut off phone is not the same as a shut down phone. A shut off phone continues to use power.

ETA: And after following other cases here I can say that a phone will ping a tower just as the battery dies/phone shuts down or is submerged etc. At least that's what phone experts have stated.

MOO
 
I looked back in the forum as Bro indicated above and swede posted #288...IMO I find this VERY INTRESTING....from testifying in the court we know that Dellen and Smich had NO TRANSPORTATION to get to the bosma's for a test drive..... .They walked up the driveway and Sharlene stated that " TIM had found this odd...he said something like should I go on this test drive? Who arrives on foot we live in the country?....IMO if I am following this correctly ....Something was said by Dellen that a friend is at Tim Horton's ?....correct? ....I MUST ask who is this person?....JMO was Dellen on his flip phone talking to them as Sharlene refers to Dellen as the " cell phone guy" who used a flip phone....anyone understand this? ..IMH0 I love to hear anyone who can clarify this?....iT WAS MENTIONED when Sharlene testified....Maybe someone can dig this INFO>>if needed from day #1 of trial....thanks Bro for bringing it up on time thread above....post #288....very curious as this would mean there is a 3rd person waiting for them ,,,,JMHO....thanks robynhood..:thinking:
 
Gibson67 said:
so then someone had a samsung charger on hand? makes no sense..to me if the phone was shut off then it would still have battery life when turned on again..and the flood of texts would come through. I guess because Liz had cleaned it off the prints on the phone would have been cleaned too. If Tim was already dead and there was so much blood as they describe..would the phone not have blood on it too then? It will be interesting to see when Tim was killed.
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FWIK, cell phone chargers are standardized- except iPhones. Any USB phone charging cable would have worked. MOO
 
deugirtni said:
I truly believe that had it not been for the 'ambition' tattoo being noticed by other kijiji truck-sellers, they may have gotten away with murder. Except for that fact that they each seemed to have loose lips, of course. If the tatt hadn't been noticed, all LE really had was a description of 2 individuals from 10 feet away in a dingy garage.. no vehicle description; a burner phone with a fake ID making the contacts; LE may not have ever known there was ever a murder, or even a stolen truck (VIN removed), and it would have potentially been one of those forever unsolved cases of a man who just disappeared from his life.
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I understand what you are saying, but I think that LE did a really good job. They used information from phone companies to trace calls to and from Tim's phone, even without his phone. This led them to a call from the burner phone, and when they looked at the records of calls from that phone that were provided by checking with cell tower companies, they found a call to the other large man who went for a test drive with DM and SM in a similar black Ram truck, but who was not killed. I think LE also looked at other adds for Black Ram trucks, and may have contacted this man that way. We speculated here that possibly he was so large that they thought the body would be difficult to handle. When LE contacted this man, he told them that one of the men had a tattoo with the word ambition surrounded by a rectangle on his left wrist, where you would wear a watch. As I recall from early news reports, LE then searched their database for information on tattoos on file, and DM's name came up because he had been charged with something minor; the officer had made a note of the tattoo, and it went into the database. I have to say, I think LE was very resourceful, and they did not have to depend on luck. They used the technology available to them.

They were also very fortunate that a Millard Air Employee photographed Tim's truck in the hangar, and copied the VIN number sending it to Crimestoppers. I wonder if that was the older man, who had trouble getting DM to remove his toys etc. from the hangar and treat it like a business -- sorry cannot remember his name. He must have been suspicious when DM texted all his employees to stay away. He is fortunate they did not find him there. He might be dead too. I think he was quite brave.

I just wish they had been this diligent in Laura Babcock's case, when her boyfriend brought them a phone bill that showed her last calls were to DM. but overall, I think they did an excellent job when they knew for sure that someone was missing after going on a test-drive with two strangers, and that it was completely out of character for Tim to not call, or not come home.
 
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