Bosma Murder Trial 02.16.16 - Day 9

[Ontario Mom]

IIRC, it has been stated that only those 2 prints were suitable for comparison. Not that they "ran" the other prints and didn't find hits. So 21 prints that could be DM's, MS's, TB's or Tom, Dick, Larry or Mo......but we will never know because they couldn't be compared.....if I understood the testimony correctly.

Exactly the same way I understood it. FWIW.

 

[Gibson67]

today they hear testimony re incinerator..poor SB
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/bosma-trial-incinerator-1.3451355

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

It must be something different. I've used the 407 with no problems in the billings.

I think it is different than the ones we get on our cars from the dealer. This looks very much like a photo-blur plate cover. You can barely see the plate compared to a standard cover. I'd like to see a picture from an angle. MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

There is nothing suggesting the truck was ever driven anywhere but up on to a trailer after the the night of the 6/7th of May. So it makes sense that the climate controls would have still been set for the night the truck was taken.

By the time AJ saw the truck on static display in the hangar on the 8th the front seats had been stripped out of it- DM also told his paint guy on the 8th that he had stripped it down, so IMO, it would have been pretty hard to drive anywhere without the seats.

 

[Juballee]

When we were told that their were blood samples all over the truck, I was really wondering how AJ could have gotten close enough to take a pic of the vin without noticing all that blood, but having seen the pictures now, I can see how he could have mistaken the small flecks circled as just regular dirt or an old bit of coffee splash or something. But how did he not see the smashed window? Why didn't he mention that in his testimony, I wonder? In my opinion that would have been glaringly noticeable.

 

[Juballee]

The truck with the heater on high was DM's not TB's, I belive, therefore his windows would still be intact and he wouldn't have needed the heat up to compensate for the air rushing in from the broken window. the heat setting would not have been from the night TB died, as well, as DM was driving around in his Yukon the rest of the week and was driving it when arrested. Was it cold that day?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I was kind of shocked to see that they show all the details of those cards, but I suppose most of them are expired now. Which gives me a certain sense of schadenfreude ... Although we can now see, from the way he lived, that DM wasn't really into having nice things. Just incinerators and other people's trucks.

On that note ... How bizarre is it that he went off on that tangent about designer clothes?

Just a little bit dreaming in jail ... as a consolation.

 

[redwing7225]

The truck with the heater on high was DM's not TB's, I belive, therefore his windows would still be intact and he wouldn't have needed the heat up to compensate for the air rushing in from the broken window. the heat setting would not have been from the night TB died, as well, as DM was driving around in his Yukon the rest of the week and was driving it when arrested. Was it cold that day?

Reference post #504, image showing dash with heat on high, belonging to TB

 

[Juballee]

If the front seats and middle front console were removed and burned, how could Dungey be trying to say that was where the shell casing was when it rolled to the back? I imagine that if the shell casing were in the front area when the truck had its front seats removed, they would have seen it lying amongst the bolts and whatever is left when you remove a seat. If it was even in a place loose enough in the front seat that it could dislodge and roll to the back, surely it would have been open enough to be seen when they were removing the seats.

I also suspect that they may have vacuumed up any broken glass from inside the truck, (I think I even saw a vacuum in one of the photos), and again, if the shell casing was loose in the front area, it would have likely gotten vacuumed up at that time, in my opinion.

All my opinion only.

 

[MsSherlock]

Anyone want to buy an incinerator?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2HcLKBpswT4UDdFTW1nZXA2REE/view?pref=2&pli=1

Seriously though. That's a lot of credit for someone with a lot of liquid cash to just buy a used truck. Two temp bank cards under different company names? And why is the address on his license Riverside Dr?

I noticed that as well and the Yukon was still registered to Millardair with the Pearson Airport address. Obviously he's a busy, busy type of guy. The RBC temp cards are marked "2". IMO, the temp cards are telling- did DM not have access to the Millardair RBC account prior to WM's death? What happened to the first temp cards? They should have been replaced by regular cards considering it had been months since WM's death. Opens up a ton of questions in concern to the financial relationship between WM/Millardair & DM. Did WM have a Will? If he did, who was the executor? All very interesting.

 

[musicaljoke]

So, just because they found two belonging to DM, they should quit analyzing the prints?? Those 21 prints should matter to the trial and the question should have been answered. Perhaps some only care that DM was there and is found guilty, but if I was family of the victim, I would want to know that every person involved in this was going to be caught and punished.
TIA

The Crown is presenting the evidence related to this* trial and these charges, and so the court will hear evidence to prove the charges. We won't be given a complete accounting of all the evidence that was collected, although you can be sure that all the fingerprint evidence was analysed. It may come up again in the other trials, or it may be irrelevant to any of the charges and we never hear more about it.

When compared to some trials, where there is perhaps only a single fingerprint left at the scene, or a root of hair, or maybe no physical evidence at all, this trial has a tsunami of evidence.

Shall we start a pool to say how long the jury will deliberate? I say, it will take them 20 minutes, 19 of those will be spent drinking coffee and saying good-byes to each other.

 

[MsSherlock]

If the front seats and middle front console were removed and burned, how could Dungey be trying to say that was where the shell casing was when it rolled to the back? I imagine that if the shell casing were in the front area when the truck had its front seats removed, they would have seen it lying amongst the bolts and whatever is left when you remove a seat. If it was even in a place loose enough in the front seat that it could dislodge and roll to the back, surely it would have been open enough to be seen when they were removing the seats.

I also suspect that they may have vacuumed up any broken glass from inside the truck, (I think I even saw a vacuum in one of the photos), and again, if the shell casing was loose in the front area, it would have likely gotten vacuumed up at that time, in my opinion.

All my opinion only.

Depends on how much elbow grease went into stripping the interior. IMO, the shell casing could have come from anywhere in the truck. Maybe there was more than 1 shot? IMO, I don't even know how the Crown would be able to use the location of that shell to support a theory of who the shooter was simply because the trucks interior had been greatly tampered with from the time it was stolen and the time they found it. IMHO, the GSR and perhaps splatter patterns inside the cab is what will tell the tail. MOO

 

[Juballee]

Reference post #504, image showing dash with heat on high, belonging to TB

You are correct, my apologies.

Perhaps the driver of the Dodge was experiencing shock, which can leave one shaking and cold, as if chilled to the bone.

 

[deugirtni]

I disagree with the other poster's opinion. If the other fingerprints were not important enough to be analyzed or submitted as evidence, why would the Crown enter as evidence a list of areas that were tested but found NO gun shot residue.





http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/key-to-tim-bosmas-truck-found-in-suspects-suv-police

LE took prints from wherever in the truck they found what they thought *could be* viable prints, had them compared to the obvious parties. Out of 23 presumably viable prints, 2 of them were matched to DM. We can assume that none of them matched to MS, since he was also an obvious party as one of the accuseds. I am sure they compared all 23 to the test subjects. There could have been many other peoples' prints in the truck as well, people from TB's jobsites, TB's family/friends, anyone else who may have looked to buy TB's truck in the past? But LE had a great lead on who the murderer could be, when they found TB's truck at DM's mother's house, so from there the investigation unfolded, and more and more evidence was collected to support the same outcome. If you go to your doctor and you have a symptom which could be 20 different things, the doc is going to start with the most obvious/basic, and start ruling out possibilities of various diagnoses from there.. he/she is not going to order tests for all 20 things right off the bat. If it turns out that the first thing he/she tests for is in fact the cause of the symptom, he/she is not going to then run the other 19 tests, just for fun.

LE took stickies of GSR from wherever in the truck they found what they *believed to be* GSR. The test reports on those have not yet been provided as evidence, as far as I am aware. It could be that none of them were GSR, or all of them were GSR, or some of them were GSR, we don't know that yet. However, the Crown in opening statement told us that,

"Significant amounts of gunshot residue were found on the inside of the truck, with especially high concentrations in the front seat area, both passenger side ceiling and driver’s side ceiling."

so, from that, I would expect that once that evidence is presented, it should match what the Crown stated.

LE took samples from wherever in the truck they found what they *believed to be* blood, according to preliminary tests. The test reports on those samples have not yet been disclosed to the jury, as far as I am aware. Once those reports are provided to the jury, we will know whether any of them matched up to TB. However, I would expect the results to match what was stated in the Crown's opening statement,

"Further forensic examination found the blood DNA of Tim Bosma on the inside of the truck in various areas, including the inside rear passenger door; rear passenger armrest; around the glove box; and front passenger cup holder (front or rear?).

Tim Bosma’s blood was also found in various areas on the undercarriage of the truck."

"Further forensic examination of the Eliminator found blood on the main hatch area of the vault. It was Tim Bosma’s blood."

 

[Tamarind]

When I look at the photos released during Day #9 of the DM/MS trial, I am having difficulty believing that what is shown in the photos are of the same truck that was shown all shiny and bright just hours earlier. For example.. it looks like there is a fair bit of rust in all sorts of places (tail gate, underneath, bottom of front passenger door, etc.). Can some truck people take a look at today's photos to see if they jive with what you would expect TB's truck to look like, as shown in the photo AJ took just hours earlier, if all of the trim pieces had been removed? Do trucks really rust that quickly? The vehicle was only 6 years old! I have no clue, but would feel more comfortable if someone who knows about these trucks could verify that it looks like the same truck? TY!

I have had the same thoughts.

 

[Alethea Dice]

IIRC, it has been stated that only those 2 prints were suitable for comparison. Not that they "ran" the other prints and didn't find hits. So 21 prints that could be DM's, MS's, TB's or Tom, Dick, Larry or Mo......but we will never know because they couldn't be compared.....if I understood the testimony correctly.

Well, perhaps not all, but....

They found fingerprints — 23 of them, though only some of them were suitable for comparison. Two of those prints, the jury has already heard, were matches to Dellen Millard; one on the driver's door and one on the rear-view mirror.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6273654-bosma-trial-investigators-saw-blood-on-items-from-bosma-s-truck/

 

[Juballee]

Depends on how much elbow grease went into stripping the interior. IMO, the shell casing could have come from anywhere in the truck. Maybe there was more than 1 shot? IMO, I don't even know how the Crown would be able to use the location of that shell to support a theory of who the shooter was simply because the trucks interior had been greatly tampered with from the time it was stolen and the time they found it. IMHO, the GSR and perhaps splatter patterns inside the cab is what will tell the tail. MOO

Just the fact that it was not seen the first time the truck was examined and then mysteriously appeared would make any defence lawyer suggest that perhaps it was planted, I would think. Maybe that's where they are going with all the questions about the security at the truck shop.

Also, I'd like to hear if the casing was tested for fingerprints. Was someone wearing gloves when they loaded the weapon? If that were the case I would suspect that they would also be wearing gloves when they fired the weapon. So I guess we also need to hear if they tested the various gloves that they have found for GSR.

 

[RandomName479]

LE took prints from wherever in the truck they found what they thought *could be* viable prints, had them compared to the obvious parties. Out of 23 presumably viable prints, 2 of them were matched to DM. We can assume that none of them matched to MS, since he was also an obvious party as one of the accuseds. I am sure they compared all 23 to the test subjects. There could have been many other peoples' prints in the truck as well, people from TB's jobsites, TB's family/friends, anyone else who may have looked to buy TB's truck in the past? But LE had a great lead on who the murderer could be, when they found TB's truck at DM's mother's house, so from there the investigation unfolded, and more and more evidence was collected to support the same outcome. If you go to your doctor and you have a symptom which could be 20 different things, the doc is going to start with the most obvious/basic, and start ruling out possibilities of various diagnoses from there.. he/she is not going to order tests for all 20 things right off the bat. If it turns out that the first thing he/she tests for is in fact the cause of the symptom, he/she is not going to then run the other 19 tests, just for fun.

LE took stickies of GSR from wherever in the truck they found what they *believed to be* GSR. The test reports on those have not yet been provided as evidence, as far as I am aware. It could be that none of them were GSR, or all of them were GSR, or some of them were GSR, we don't know that yet. However, the Crown in opening statement told us that,

"Significant amounts of gunshot residue were found on the inside of the truck, with especially high concentrations in the front seat area, both passenger side ceiling and driver’s side ceiling."

so, from that, I would expect that once that evidence is presented, it should match what the Crown stated.

LE took samples from wherever in the truck they found what they *believed to be* blood, according to preliminary tests. The test reports on those samples have not yet been disclosed to the jury, as far as I am aware. Once those reports are provided to the jury, we will know whether any of them matched up to TB. However, I would expect the results to match what was stated in the Crown's opening statement,

"Further forensic examination found the blood DNA of Tim Bosma on the inside of the truck in various areas, including the inside rear passenger door; rear passenger armrest; around the glove box; and front passenger cup holder (front or rear?).

Tim Bosma’s blood was also found in various areas on the undercarriage of the truck."

"Further forensic examination of the Eliminator found blood on the main hatch area of the vault. It was Tim Bosma’s blood."

BBM - do you have a link that shows they actually ran 23 prints or that 23 prints were viable? I understood the testimony differently.......that of the 23 they took they were only able to compare 2 of them. Wish we had transcripts instead of tweets......

 

[MsSherlock]

You are correct, my apologies.

Perhaps the driver of the Dodge was experiencing shock, which can leave one shaking and cold, as if chilled to the bone.

Now I can see why DM was rushing to fire up the eliminator!! He was cold!!! I just need a refresher on why DM could not be guilty of this crime. Is the assertion that he wasn't there, or that he didn't kill anyone and didn't have a clue what was going on with his sick, criminal friends? Seriously, I'm lost on the "DM is innocent" theory. How does the evidence presented so far assist in exonerating DM? MOQ (my own questions)

 

[Gibson67]

Well, perhaps not all, but....



http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6273654-bosma-trial-investigators-saw-blood-on-items-from-bosma-s-truck/

we really have yet to hear much about Smich..perhaps they are only focusing on DM because he was the first arrested and they seem to be going in order of each day of that led up to Smich's arrest....maybe that will all come into play as he is arrested and then present evidence on him?