Bosma Murder Trial 02.22.16 - Day 12

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Welcome to all the new folks.

I joined in May 2013, but it was total coincidence--I'd lost my older WS account and the domain my email was registered with. Tim's case was very active at the time, and thus I became involved.

I tried to explain to my SO earlier tonight why this case has kept my attention for years--I almost never follow any crimes to trial, so this phase has all been very foreign to me. And I'm not even in Canada, as many of you are.

What I concluded was that I'm just endlessly, morbidly curious about the way there is a veritable mountain of evidence, and these two (pre-emptive mod snip) in the middle of it going "who, me?". Something about watching these people claiming the sky is green, it's such a train wreck.

And again--I'm usually not one to follow the trials, although most of the cases I've followed haven't had accused who bothered to plead not guilty. I'm not into hate-watching of people like Jodi Arias. But I won't lie, it's going to feel good to see this one get handled.
 
matou said:
It was the scrappiest day the legal teams have had in this trial, which is starting its fourth week. While defence lawyers have gone hard after witnesses a few times, this is the first time the Crown and defence — in particular the legal team of Ravin Pillay and Nadir Sachak representing Dellen Millard — have squared off. The result was the 14 jurors were holed up in their room for more than half the day and two witnesses who flew in to testify — one from Winnipeg, the other from Georgia — didn't finish.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6328706-bosma-trial-legal-teams-get-scrappy-as-jurors-wait/
Click to expand...

I think the Winnipeg witness (WP) was excused. Pillay crossed, Dungey did not.
 
Abitcountry said:
I love this.....so all GSE needs is an incinerator and big old truck to pull it !!!
Click to expand...

Except they were not an airport. They were an MRO at the airport. I would think the airport would be responsible for a ground service crew to clean aircraft. At the terminal. Not on the far outskirts of the airport. And they didn't even have any clients at the time. I would think there were a lot more important purchases that needed to be made at that time. Not to mention WM had brought in some very experienced MRO employees to help with the start up of the business. Why on earth would DM and SS, neither with any knowledge of the industry, be making equipment purchases for the company.

Which is all a moot point really. Because they told the person they bought the incinerator from that it was for farm animals. So unless they were expecting a lot of flights full of dead animal carcasses to pass through their MRO, I'm thinking there is no good or legitimate excuse for why that incinerator was bought around the same time that DM was trying to procure a gun or two.

MOO
 
RandomName479 said:
thanks for the clarification (CJ and qdm).....my follow up question (admittedly knowing not so much about vehicles) is: what does a scribble on an incinerator invoice that may or may not say G56 (cuz i see something else) (and google tells me a G56 is a MANUAL transmission) have to do with TB's truck? IMO we are making big leaps and I'm not seeing the connection.....TIA for connecting the dots for me
Click to expand...

There was a lot of information at one point that Millard had been to a bi-annual racing event in the Baja and wanted to return and do it again. An acquaintenance recommended that if he was going to haul a heavy trailer containing his racing vehicles DM should consider getting a diesel version of the Dodge Ram. He was aiming for the Calgary Races in the spring of 2013 then on to the Baja.... That was apparently why he was on Kijiji and setting up appointments to view trucks. And that is how he came upon Tim Bosma's ad and his Dodge diesel for 24,000 dollars ...only DM had no intention of paying and we are now at Week 4 of this trial.
Very shortened version but hopefully fills a bit of the gap.
By the way, did you see the post that sees the scribble as GSE (Ground support Equipment as in at airports)....and I think that is an excellent possibility as well.
 
Question (forgive me if already asked/discussed).

If the Incinerator was ordered in June 2012 and Bosma disappeared May 2013.....well obviously it was ordered in 2012 for a reason, obviously not with using it specifically for Bosma. I'd be curious to know if it was used prior to Bosma. Obviously it was purchased to get rid of bodies...........so I wonder who else's body it may have been used for prior to May 2013? That is just so completely creepy. To me it speaks to premeditation. If was obviously purchased to get rid of human remains which thereby indicates that DM had prior plans to murder someone and use such an incinerator to get rid of the body (or bodies?). This just gives me chills. You don't spend several thousand dollars on an incinerator if you have no legit need for it (farm animals, pet cremation, etc), unless you're planning to use it/need it to get rid of human bodies.

Curious - when SS was ordering the incinerator for DM (on DM's behalf), surely he would have wondered and/or asked DM what DM would want such an incinerator for. I wonder what he was told? Could SS have known what it was going to be used for?

Were did the incinerator reside from the time it arrived at Millard Air in ?July 2012 to when it was found on the rural property in May 2013?
 
Alethea Dice said:
I thought Riverside Drive and the farm were the only two properties not transferred to MB.



http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/06/05/millard_land_deals_beyond_smelly_experts_say.html

All I remember about the Riverside property was that it was no longer on the market. I believe that you had also posted some real estate information showing that the bank had put a lien on it.

I have never seen anything about the farm being transferred to MB, only that it was a private sale. I think discussion back then was whether nothing could be done or transferred with regard to the farm because of the investigation.



http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/dellen-millard-s-former-farm-sold-to-landscaping-company-1.1772352
Click to expand...
You are correct AD- this is the second property mistake I've made in the past couple weeks!! I should have refreshed my memory! Back when the properties were being transferred to MB, it was stated that he was giving MB POA. That's why it seemed so strange that some properties transferred straight into MB's name for $1.00 and Riverside and Roseville did not. RBC did slap a sizeable lien against Riverside. 3.1 million. Riverside ended up selling for 2.8 million- closing Nov 20/14. It was listed for quite a long time indicating MB as Power of Attorney. The Roseville farm sold and closed on Feb 28/14 for $840K. It was in DM's name at the time of sale and MB may have acted under Power of Attorney for that one as well. MOO

IMHO, it really doesn't matter if DM transferred the properties or gave MB authority under a Power of Attorney. IMO, the whole messy ball started rolling when DM murdered WM in November/12. That may have very well been a very vulnerable time for WM. He had a lot of financial balls up in the air trying to get the MRO finished- his safety nets may have been stretched very thin. DM probably didn't have the smarts to realize what a bad time it was to bop his dad. Facing the financial fall out from shutting down the MRO before it even began, dealing with WM's estate and everything else in between may have resulted in DM having to liquidate regardless if he was behind bars or not. Happens when income < expenses and the Bank and CRA want their money. MOO
 
Abitcountry said:
There was a lot of information at one point that Millard had been to a bi-annual racing event in the Baja and wanted to return and do it again. An acquaintenance recommended that if he was going to haul a heavy trailer containing his racing vehicles DM should consider getting a diesel version of the Dodge Ram. He was aiming for the Calgary Races in the spring of 2013 Jane then on to the Baja.... That was apparently why he was on Kijiji and setting up appointments to view trucks. And that is how he came upon Tim Bosma's ad and his Dodge diesel for 24,000 dollars only DM had no intention of paying and we are now at Week 4 of this trial.
Very shortened version but hopefully fills a bit of the gap.
By the way, did you see the post that sees the scribble as GSE (Ground support Equipment as in at airports)....and I think that is an excellent possibility as well.
Click to expand...

There is no proof at the moment that he was planning to attend any races in Calgary (likely just a lie told to IT) and we've yet to see any that he was heading to Baja ,other than the one witness who said DM mentioned towing to Baja back in 2009, nor that it was a bi-annual event for him. While that is my personal opinion, and that he was rushing to get a trailer finished and needed a truck to pull it to make it to the Baja race, that is not a fact at the moment.

When we post something with MOO (my opinion only) or JMO (just my opinion) etc., it is just that...an opinion. And if posting an opinion, it's good practice to use that disclaimer.

MOO
 
Abitcountry said:
There was a lot of information at one point that Millard had been to a bi-annual racing event in the Baja and wanted to return and do it again. An acquaintenance recommended that if he was going to haul a heavy trailer containing his racing vehicles DM should consider getting a diesel version of the Dodge Ram. He was aiming for the Calgary Races in the spring of 2013 Jane then on to the Baja.... That was apparently why he was on Kijiji and setting up appointments to view trucks. And that is how he came upon Tim Bosma's ad and his Dodge diesel for 24,000 dollars only DM had no intention of paying and we are now at Week 4 of this trial.
Very shortened version but hopefully fills a bit of the gap.
By the way, did you see the post that sees the scribble as GSE (Ground support Equipment as in at airports)....and I think that is an excellent possibility as well.
Click to expand...

Not sure that the "Calgary Race" has ever been verified or proven.....this came up IIRC bc of IT's testimony. Also, lots of speculation about the Baja race....and I agree it was a definite possibility bc of his attendance previously....but we don't know for a fact this was DM was planning on racing in 2013. Maybe I missed an article - do you have a link for it? As for the diesel....I heard the testimony......but a diesel does not necessarily equal a manual transmission.....so that connection is still lost on me. In my opinion "GSE" makes more sense.....accounting notes about which expense line to put the purchase under. MOO

eta - Kamille....you beat me to it.....
 
Abitcountry said:
There was a lot of information at one point that Millard had been to a bi-annual racing event in the Baja and wanted to return and do it again. An acquaintenance recommended that if he was going to haul a heavy trailer containing his racing vehicles DM should consider getting a diesel version of the Dodge Ram. He was aiming for the Calgary Races in the spring of 2013 Jane then on to the Baja.... That was apparently why he was on Kijiji and setting up appointments to view trucks. And that is how he came upon Tim Bosma's ad and his Dodge diesel for 24,000 dollars only DM had no intention of paying and we are now at Week 4 of this trial.
Very shortened version but hopefully fills a bit of the gap.
By the way, did you see the post that sees the scribble as GSE (Ground support Equipment as in at airports)....and I think that is an excellent possibility as well.
Click to expand...

If G56 is indeed a misinterpretation, it is pretty ironic that this misinterpretation happens to be a high-performance manual transmission for the same truck TB had. This tranny can be swapped to replace the automatic in TB's truck. Crazy irony!

http://www.dieselbombers.com/5-9l-cr-performance/33242-auto-manual-swap.html

ETA - to be clear, I too think GSE makes more sense
 
Kamille said:
Except they were not an airport. They were an MRO at the airport. I would think the airport would be responsible for a ground service crew to clean aircraft. At the terminal. Not on the far outskirts of the airport. And they didn't even have any clients at the time. I would think there were a lot more important purchases that needed to be made at that time. Not to mention WM had brought in some very experienced MRO employees to help with the start up of the business. Why on earth would DM and SS, neither with any knowledge of the industry, be making equipment purchases for the company.

Which is all a moot point really. Because they told the person they bought the incinerator from that it was for farm animals. So unless they were expecting a lot of flights full of dead animal carcasses to pass through their MRO, I'm thinking there is no good or legitimate excuse for why that incinerator was bought around the same time that DM was trying to procure a gun or two.

MOO
Click to expand...


IMHO......I don't think they were seriously thinking of doing any sort of ground support or servicing of any planes whatsoever. I will just bet the last plane that was in that hangar was used for a soft *advertiser censored* video starring DM's friends.....Way back there were oodles of pictures of so-called models draped on all manner of equipment and I seem to recall a small plane.

Further and in MOO...It didn't matter that they weren't really in business.....it is what they could "show on the books". GSE is a perfect cover for a bunch of ne'er do wells who are up to a whole lot of no good with a hangar full of toys.....and if they can get the expenses covered as a business expense, well then all the better in their eyes. Hey we are talking about a group of poeple who are literally capable of murder.

Finally and this is my personal assessment....They told everyone a different story and whatever worked best for them at the time.....and in many instances it was likely complete and utter ********....depended who they spoke to and what they thought would fly ( pardon the pun!)
 
LayzeeDayzee said:
Question (forgive me if already asked/discussed).

If the Incinerator was ordered in June 2012 and Bosma disappeared May 2013.....well obviously it was ordered in 2012 for a reason, obviously not with using it specifically for Bosma. I'd be curious to know if it was used prior to Bosma. Obviously it was purchased to get rid of bodies...........so I wonder who else's body it may have been used for prior to May 2013? That is just so completely creepy. To me it speaks to premeditation. If was obviously purchased to get rid of human remains which thereby indicates that DM had prior plans to murder someone and use such an incinerator to get rid of the body (or bodies?). This just gives me chills. You don't spend several thousand dollars on an incinerator if you have no legit need for it (farm animals, pet cremation, etc), unless you're planning to use it/need it to get rid of human bodies.

Curious - when SS was ordering the incinerator for DM (on DM's behalf), surely he would have wondered and/or asked DM what DM would want such an incinerator for. I wonder what he was told? Could SS have known what it was going to be used for?

Were did the incinerator reside from the time it arrived at Millard Air in ?July 2012 to when it was found on the rural property in May 2013?
Click to expand...

See the LB (Laura Babcock) thread.....disappeared in July 2012.....right around the time the Eliminator was delivered.....HTH

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Smich-charged-w-Murder-in-the-First-Degree-1

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Smich-charged-w-Murder-in-the-First-Degree-2
 
Abitcountry said:
I don't think they were seriously thinking of doing any sort of ground support or servicing of any planes whatsoever. I will just bet the last plane that was in that hangar was used for a soft *advertiser censored* video starring DM's friends.....Way back there were oodles of pictures of so-called models draped on all manner of equipment and I seem to recall a small plane.

It didn't matter that they weren't really in business.....it is what they could "show on the books". GSE is a perfect cover for a bunch of ne'er do wells who are up to a whole lot of no good with a hangar full of toys.....and if they can get the expenses covered as a business expense, well then all the better in their eyes. Hey we are talking about a group of poeple who are literally capable of murder.

They told everyone a different story and whatever worked best for them at the time.....and in many instances it was likely complete and utter ********....depended who they spoke to and what they thought would fly ( pardon the pun!)
Click to expand...

There had never been a large aircraft in the hangar. You are perhaps confusing it with the old hangar? And at the time the incinerator was purchased, DM's father WM was still alive and was in the process of setting up the business with some experienced help and his son the CEO who had his own personal automobile mechanic on the payroll for some reason. :rolleyes:

MOO
 
Kamille said:
There had never been a large aircraft in the hangar. You are perhaps confusing it with the old hangar? And at the time the incinerator was purchased, DM's father WM was still alive and was in the process of setting up the business with some experienced help and his son the CEO who had his own personal automobile mechanic on the payroll for some reason. :rolleyes:

MOO
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to hear what type of relationship DM had with WM. Maybe inheritance was just an added bonus?
 
Ive never followed a case like this before and have some questions about how the evidence has been presented, in particular the order. When evidence was presented in regards to DMs Yukon, its's contents etc. why didn't we hear about any forensic evidence being taken? Or did we and I just happened to miss that? My thought is that if MS drove the Yukon on the night of the crime and if he was present when TB was shot, transferring blood to the Yukon, then I think the Yukon would be an important piece. Perhaps they don't need such evidence though if they have someone who will place MS in the Yukon. Or maybe that evidence is coming.

One other question I have is about the evidence gathered from TBs truck. Was all the blood TBs? I don't remember someone specifically testifying that or a blood splatter expert analyzing the crime scene. Again, maybe not needed or yet to come.
 
Kamille and RAndom Name.....So Sorry.....IMHO always until I get too tired to think straight...Point taken and you are absolutely correct....Thank you both
 
LibTech said:
Ive never followed a case like this before and have some questions about how the evidence has been presented, in particular the order. When evidence was presented in regards to DMs Yukon, its's contents etc. why didn't we hear about any forensic evidence being taken? Or did we and I just happened to miss that? My thought is that if MS drove the Yukon on the night of the crime and if he was present when TB was shot, transferring blood to the Yukon, then I think the Yukon would be an important piece. Perhaps they don't need such evidence though if they have someone who will place MS in the Yukon. Or maybe that evidence is coming.

One other question I have is about the evidence gathered from TBs truck. Was all the blood TBs? I don't remember someone specifically testifying that or a blood splatter expert analyzing the crime scene. Again, maybe not needed or yet to come.
Click to expand...

Yes the evidence does seem to be coming out in some type of order that we seem to think is in order of when things were found and processed. Of course there is also the issue of trying to schedule witnesses which was likely a nightmare in this case.

I also would like to know if blood swabs were taken from the Yukon but I have to assume that it was a different forensic team that did it because the Yukon was taken into custody at a different time. So I'm assuming we're going to hear about it eventually. There are also a number of different police forces who were involved because of the large geographic area so each one will have to testify to their own part of the investigation and that has to be co-ordinated as well.

So while we're hearing that all these swabs were taken from various pieces of evidence, I think the results of the tests will be presented by the person(s) from CFS who processed this evidence.

MOO
 
CJPRINCESS said:
I'm looking thru the BAJA pics and don't seen anything yet..but someone in the last is discussion thread mentioned a police scanner on dash of DM's truck (assuming this was in reference to the Ram). That is not a police scanner, it's a CB radio.
Click to expand...

So I went looking for you because there was lots of talk on this topic just a short while ago. Go up to the advanced search box on the right at the top....Type Tim Bosma Weekend Discussion #3 page 16. You may also find it by typing in Tim Bosma 02.20.16. It is Post #<modsnip>
 
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