Bosma Murder Trial 02.22.16 - Day 12

[Sphinx]

Both of today's witnesses had to travel a long distance. I wonder if they actually flew in Thursday (expecting to be called Friday). Now one of them has to return to court tomorrow.

Does anyone know if a witness outside of Canada has to obey a summons? Either way, it's appreciated. I'm sure this is an inconvenience to them, but is obviously very important.




I wonder if time for legal arguments was built into the court schedule, or if they will have to make up this lost time somehow in the coming months.

I was a witness for The Crown a few years ago in a criminal case, which resulted in a conviction. LE and The Crown treated me very well. An OPP officer came to my house a few days ahead of the court date, and offered to drive me to and from the court house, about 30 miles from my house. We were in court for 2 days, but I had the impression that it would be for the duration of the case, however long it was. When I said I could drive myself, they offered to pay for my gas, and I accepted that. Everyone in LE and those representing The Crown were very polite, and considerate. I think they appreciated a citizen willing to do their civic duty. I was retired at the time, and did not need compensation for lost pay. I cannot remember if anything was mentioned about compensation for people having to take time off work.

 

[matou]

Looks like two different styles of handwriting and one has the "French 7" with the slash through the number 7. LOL

 

[Stratocaster]

I dunno, a $15,000 livestock incinerator to get rid of trash or tires seems like overkill. Alarm bells for me for sure.

....bingo, with today's evidence presented about the corresponding emails and SS inquiring about making the unit mobile leads me to believe him and DM probably has some closed door discussions about this thing. With a $15,000 price tag, I wouldn't call that an impulse buy, and I'm sure they did their own research on the topic. The simple fact of inquiring to make it mobile speaks volumes to me as part of a master plan. All MOO

 

[palisadesk]

Could it be that SS will give testimony in favour of DM? He could testify that DM had some particular intention for the incinerator, something inconsistent with what he originally told Penner.

Either Crown or defense could call SS as a witness; the Crown would have first option to do so. If SS were to behave in such a way that he appeared unwilling to say anything not favorable to DM, he could be ruled by the judge a "hostile witness" which would allow the Crown attorney to pose leading questions, which otherwise he could not do. See this definition of "hostile witness":

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/H/HostileWitness.aspx

If he is not called by the Crown, SS could be called by the defense, who will in any case be able to cross-examine him.

SS however could not testify to DM's "intentions," only to DM's actions or statements that he himself personally saw or heard. His opinions or inferences on those things are not facts, and the judge would have to instruct the jury to disregard them. Further to that, should SS testify to something DM said to him, again, the only "fact" there is the sworn fact that according to the witness DM said the attributed thing, not that the thing DM said is factually true. The judge would clarify these points, if they come up, in his charge to the jury, if not before.

The likeliest reason for defense objections to the incinerator co. guy repeating what SS told him about the alleged reason for purchase is that it is is not evidence. If SS were on trial, then the company guy could testify to what SS told him.

 

[billandrew]

Either Crown or defense could call SS as a witness; the Crown would have first option to do so. If SS were to behave in such a way that he appeared unwilling to say anything not favorable to DM, he could be ruled by the judge a "hostile witness" which would allow the Crown attorney to pose leading questions, which otherwise he could not do. See this definition of "hostile witness":

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/H/HostileWitness.aspx

If he is not called by the Crown, SS could be called by the defense, who will in any case be able to cross-examine him.

SS however could not testify to DM's "intentions," only to DM's actions or statements that he himself personally saw or heard. His opinions or inferences on those things are not facts, and the judge would have to instruct the jury to disregard them. Further to that, should SS testify to something DM said to him, again, the only "fact" there is the sworn fact that according to the witness DM said the attributed thing, not that the thing DM said is factually true. The judge would clarify these points, if they come up, in his charge to the jury, if not before.

The likeliest reason for defense objections to the incinerator co. guy repeating what SS told him about the alleged reason for purchase is that it is is not evidence. If SS were on trial, then the company guy could testify to what SS told him.

Great insights - thanks!


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[billandrew]

GSE account ? The first letter doesn't look the same as the G in Garbage but it also doesn't look like an O as in account - so it's hard to say.

View attachment 89598

Speaking as an accountant myself, I have never come across a G56 or GSE account. My best guess is that it refers to a capital equipment account, for example "General Service Equipment". The actual name is insignificant.

The cost of a capital item is amortized over time for financial reporting and tax purposes because the use of that item takes place over a number of years.

The "garbage/utilities" account is a general expense account, and based on the nature of the incinerator, it would actually be a violation of tax rules to claim 100% of the incinerator's cost in the year it was purchased.


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[jash]

I'm not sure if anyone was posting Susan Clairmont's tweets today. I've pasted the ones I found interesting/containing new info below.

Witness = Darryl Denny (Chief Building Official, North Dumfries Township)

@susanclairmont 9:12 AM - 22 Feb 2016
On aerial view of farm, marked to show proposed position of new building. Application includes certificate of design, by engineer.

@susanclairmont 9:15 AM - 22 Feb 2016
Land there is very hilly, says Denny. Building was to be a drive shed. Would not be able to see it from the road.

@susanclairmont 9:18 AM - 22 Feb 2016
Pillay objecting to question. Of whether drive sheds are common on farms.

Witness = William Penner (Canadian distributor of Eliminator)

@susanclairmont 11:08 AM - 22 Feb 2016
Has an after-burner to eliminate emissions. Emission is hot, clean air. "It doesn't smoke."

@susanclairmont 11:12 AM - 22 Feb 2016
Unit comes with an "ash rake" to remove ashes from bottom. Schlatmann deciding between 250 and 500 lb. unit. On June 19, 2012.

@susanclairmont 11:18 AM - 22 Feb 2016
Now seeing Schlatman letter to Penner: "I forwarded prices to my boss. I will let you know within a day or so of his decision." #Bosma

@susanclairmont 11:19 AM - 22 Feb 2016
June 20, 2012: "My boss would like to order the SN500. No roll up door please just the plain lift open door and using propane to fuel it."

@susanclairmont 11:28 AM - 22 Feb 2016
Aug. 14, 2012 Shane to Penner: "Dell has lost the receipt for the $5,000 visa transaction. Is it possible for you to email me a copy...?"

@susanclairmont 11:30 AM - 22 Feb 2016
Penner says he never dealt with Dell. Only Schlatman, who mentioned Dellen Millard was his boss.

@susanclairmont 11:37 AM - 22 Feb 2016
July 3, 2012. Eliminator on the road heading to Millardair. No problems at border.

@susanclairmont 11:54 AM - 22 Feb 2016
Inside Eliminator, animal put I loading door and lays on concrete cylinders. For big carcass, recommends roll back door.

@susanclairmont 11:59 AM - 22 Feb 2016
Lifespan on The Eliminator is 15 years, says Penner...Crown is done...Pillay is asking for break. Jury dismissed.

@susanclairmont 12:51 PM - 22 Feb 2016
Writing on this document says "garbage or utilities account." That was written after it was sent to Schlatman, suggests Pillay.

@susanclairmont 12:57 PM - 22 Feb 2016
Penner insisting that copy of the invoice he is looking at comes from his company. Pillay is suggesting he doesn't know that for sure.

@susanclairmont 12:58 PM - 22 Feb 2016
Pillay gets Penner to agree he doesn't know where paper was found, when, or who wrote on it. Pillay says they were found in a vehicle.

Witness = Tim Cook (Plant manager at Eliminator manufacturer)

@susanclairmont 1:01 PM - 22 Feb 2016
Cook owns and operates Eco Concepts which makes incinerators for the "ag industry." Since 1998. Before 2014 called Super Nova.

@susanclairmont 1:07 PM - 22 Feb 2016
Farmer with bigger animals are best off with the roll-back lid. 1600 F for main burner, after burner is 1800 F.

@susanclairmont 1:11 PM - 22 Feb 2016
Full load of turkeys takes 4.5-5 hours to burn. Swine take a little less because of fat content. A 170 lb. animal would take up to 3 hours.

@susanclairmont 1:14 PM - 22 Feb 2016
Crown says Mr. Bosma's bones found in Eliminator. Crown asks if this happens with animals. Cook says it does sometimes.

@susanclairmont 1:15 PM - 22 Feb 2016
Door on The Eliminator found at Millard farm is meant for poultry, not hogs.

@susanclairmont 1:16 PM - 22 Feb 2016
Can run on propane, natural gas or diesel. Eliminator found on farm runs on propane. #Bosma

Also, in response to a question about reporting what the legal arguments were about after the case, she said:

@susanclairmont 12:42 PM - 22 Feb 2016
Eventually. But not immediately after the trial.

 

[Ironworker736]

BTW...I just want to say that I have been following this site since the start of this case (3 year lurker)...I think this is a great forum!
I would also like to say that my heart goes out to the Bosma family and their many friends!

 

[Abitcountry]

Looks like G56 to me

Could it be capital B instead of G............Check out the B in garbage

 

[Gibson67]

Kind of off topic...this trial is really reminding me of Aaron Hernandez's trial. A young defendant with a lot of money at his disposal, who thinks he is above the law, endless amounts of dumb mistakes by the accused, a defence team that seems to be putting up a very weak fight ...and an absolute mountain of evidence! Hopefully we see the same outcome.

I agree his Lawyers don't seem very aggressive..

 

[Kamille]

But would this char the corn under it? Sheet metal with a fire on top?
I still believe this is from the almost 6' seat assembly and I think the pics are deceiving us on the actual shape and size of that site.

I assume that the darker "square" looking site is considered the "smaller" burn site. The items relating to the seats and centre console were found in the larger site according to the tweets.

MOO

 

[jash]

Looks like two different styles of handwriting and one has the "French 7" with the slash through the number 7. LOL

I thought the same thing about different handwriting, but I think the "French 7" is actually a 2 ("P #230" in blue and "P 0230" in black).

 

[Kamille]

Another point I'd like to make...when a casing is ejected, it travels to the right, rearward and slightly upward. It does so at a fairly high rate of speed and never at the exact same trajectory. IMO that casing could have ended up literally anywhere in that cab due to ricochet, regardless of which position it was fired from. If fired from the drivers seat, it likely bounces of the top of the rear driver's side window. If fired from directly behind the passenger, it probably bounces off the rear passenger's side window. In both scenarios, the casing hits a widow at an angle and high rate of speed. Also, the weapon could have been held at any angle, my point being that the location of that casing proves very little, if you ask me.

Agree. And it could very easily have landed on the back seat and gotten lodged down in the crease between the bottom bench and the upper back part of the seat. And when the seats were moved/manipulated and lifted up to search for and photograph evidence, it fell right through to the floor underneath.

MOO

 

[jash]

Could it be capital B instead of G............Check out the B in garbage

This is what it looks like to me.

 

[jash]

Speaking as an accountant myself, I have never come across a G56 or GSE account. My best guess is that it refers to a capital equipment account, for example "General Service Equipment". The actual name is insignificant.

The cost of a capital item is amortized over time for financial reporting and tax purposes because the use of that item takes place over a number of years.

The "garbage/utilities" account is a general expense account, and based on the nature of the incinerator, it would actually be a violation of tax rules to claim 100% of the incinerator's cost in the year it was purchased.


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Thanks for your insight!

As a witness testified today, the lifespan of the Eliminator is 15 years.

 

[flipflop]

Do the people of Ontario really want to spend the hundreds of thousands required for justice in the WM matter? Considering (hopefully) the perpetrator is already behind bars for 25 years min

I wouldn't want it swept under the carpet. If DM murdered TB, and LB, the case of WM could be the deciding factor of DM being a serial killer/dangerous offender, or whatever they call it! Do I want that.....hell ya!!!!!

 

[Abitcountry]

Looks like G56 to me

It is G56.......I just Googled it and you'll never believe what I came up with

Check this out. www.dieselpowerproducts.com

(I can't do a link from my tablet but I will just type out a bit of what it says at the beginning of the article.)

"2010-2016 6.7 L DODGE CUMMINS G56 MANUAL TRANSMISSION"
"Since mid model year 2005 Cummins equipped Ram sporting manual transmission with G56 six speed. The six speed........."

The G56 may well be in reference to the Dodge Ram that DM was told would be a better fit to pull his trailer for the races he wished to go to.

Hope this helps.

 

[Kamille]

I'm not sure if anyone was posting Susan Clairmont's tweets today. I've pasted the ones I found interesting/containing new info below.

Witness = Darryl Denny (Chief Building Official, North Dumfries Township)


Witness = William Penner (Canadian distributor of Eliminator)


Witness = Tim Cook (Plant manager at Eliminator manufacturer)


Also, in response to a question about reporting what the legal arguments were about after the case, she said:

@susanclairmont 12:42 PM - 22 Feb 2016
Eventually. But not immediately after the trial.

Okay now I get what Pillay was saying. The 2 Tristar invoices are the same. At some point DM thought he lost his copy showing the downpayment so he asked SS to email them to send another copy, which they did. Most likely it was the copy they sent that got written on in blue. At some point, DM probably realized he had the original that had also already been written on, or his accountant did. Somehow a copy of that also got into the file. So Pillay was trying to claim that the photocopied one was sent to SS with that information already on it. For no other reason than to confuse.

Or...the black copy is the second one and someone wrote on it in black lol. Either way they ended up with two copies.

MP230 Millard Properties, cheque or PO #230?

He's got nothing IMO.

MOO

 

[Fancypants]

It is G56.......I just Googled it and you'll never believe what I came up with

Check this out. www.dieselpowerproducts.com

(I can't do a link from my tablet but I will just type out a bit of what it says at the beginning of the article.)

"2010-2016 6.7 L DODGE CUMMINS G56 MANUAL TRANSMISSION"
"Since mid model year 2005 Cummins equipped Ram sporting manual transmission with G56 six speed. The six speed........."

The G56 may well be in reference to the Dodge Ram that DM was told would be a better fit to pull his trailer for the races he wished to go to.

Hope this helps.

When I looked at the invoice I saw G56 as well. Very interesting coincidence.....or not MOO

 

[Ironworker736]

It is G56.......I just Googled it and you'll never believe what I came up with

Check this out. www.dieselpowerproducts.com

(I can't do a link from my tablet but I will just type out a bit of what it says at the beginning of the article.)

"2010-2016 6.7 L DODGE CUMMINS G56 MANUAL TRANSMISSION"
"Since mid model year 2005 Cummins equipped Ram sporting manual transmission with G56 six speed. The six speed........."

The G56 may well be in reference to the Dodge Ram that DM was told would be a better fit to pull his trailer for the races he wished to go to.

Hope this helps.

Not to mention, towing a 6000lb? incinerator