Bosma Murder Trial 02.29.16 - Day 16

[Deleted member 102539]

My understanding is that the stains were from TB, CN and DM.......MOO

TB, CN, unknown male plus Millard (inside gloves) - is that right?


molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 39 Min.Vor 39 Minuten
Going back to black nitrile gloves. Millard could not be excluded as source of DNA. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 42 Min.Vor 42 Minuten
Millard cannot be excluded as DNA match on second of three gloves.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 43 Min.Vor 43 Minuten
Millard's DNA could not be excluded from the inside of the black nitrile gloves, Sloots says. #HamOnt #Bosma #TimBosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 43 Min.Vor 43 Minuten
Three black nitrile gloves found on Millard at arrest. Millard cannot be excluded as source of DNA.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1 Std.Vor 1 Stunde
One other unknown DNA male profile on glove. Sloots will come back to that...

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1 Std.Vor 1 Stunde
Back. Summary of gloves: 3 profiles detected. Noudga/Bosma could not be excluded as sources. One remained unknown. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1 Std.Vor 1 Stunde
Jury has returned. Crown Fraser is recapping glove evidence: #Bosma cannot be excluded as source, nor can Noudga.

 

[flipflop]

She didn't kill anyone. This trial is to show that DM and MS are guilty of murder. Once that is done, perhaps other charges will be brought forth.

Neither did CN, according to her charges.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

You mean regular cigarettes? :whoosh:

I don't know a single pic of him with cigarette in his hand.

 

[JPC]

Because TB's blood was found on his man purse? Just proving its his and not someone else's. How does the victims blood get on your murse if you have nothing to do with this?

MOO

During the testimony today did we ever hear anything about the murse having blood that was tested for DNa? I wasn't sure if I missed something?

 

[JPC]

I am not sure if anyone can answer this question or not but my assumption is that employees (although it sounds like this number had declined prior to May 2013) and others who had regular contact with the Hangar would have provided elimination finer prints. Is it possible to provide elimination DNA as well? Just wondering if one of the only employees on payroll would have provided DNA sample to rule them out? Many years ago my workplace was broken in to and staff had to give elimination prints.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

A male DNA profile was found on a cigarette profile at the hangar, and it couldn't be excluded from Mark Smich. The chances of it coming from anyone else are 1 in 11 trillion.
by Adam Carter 4:10 PM

Court now seeing a canvas diesel shoulder bag that was seized from 5 maplegate drive in Etobicoke. A blood stain was found on the bag.
by Adam Carter 4:11 PM

On another part of the bag, Dellen Millard could not be excluded in DNA comparison. The chances that the DNA came from anyone else is 1 in 22 thousand.
by Adam Carter 4:11 PM


The infamous man purse/satchel?

I don't understand at all: It's HIS bag, why not his DNA on this bag? And if the bloodstain is meant, it had Tim's DNA.

 

[ADAWG]

So why no charges for MM?

I imagine the DNA was used as a way to get her to talk. The ok what do you know. Here is what we have on you start talking


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gibson67]

so the gloves all contained DNA for Millard on two and CN on 1 of 3 gloves. There was also another male DNA found on the gloves that they will come back to. If the gloves are just shop gloves then SS DNA could also be on them. 2 Cig butts found outside door of hangar, one belonging to MM and the other to MS. Was there any DNA for Smich found on any gloves?

 

[JuneBug67]

I don't understand at all: It's HIS bag, why not his DNA on this bag? And if the bloodstain is meant, it had Tim's DNA.

I think any item that has both the victim's and the accused's DNA on it is going to be significant.

Am I recalling correctly that the Bosma's boarder testified that the taller man at the house had a shoulder bag?

 

[swedie]

We learned from the phone evidence that MS was at the hangar Thursday night. We did not hear that CN (or at least her phone) was to my knowledge. It appears that DM dropped off MS in Oakville after loading the truck in the trailer and then proceeded to Etobicoke and met up with CN. At least that's how the phone evidence made it seem.

MOO

Oh right, good catch Kamille, the cell phone records. Do you know off hand if CN's cell phone pinged Thursday night in Etobicoke and Ayr? Seems to be a lot of phone activity May 9th between 11 and 11:40pm with CN and DM. CN calling Haggerman four times in approx. 5 mins. 11:28 (Kleinburg), 11:29, 11:30, 11:34 unknown text at 11:31. All calls from CN to Haggerman are pinging around Kleinburg and later closer to the areas south/west, Woodhill area 11:31pm and 11:34pm. MOO.

 

[cansleuther]

From AC's live blog:

Court now seeing a canvas diesel shoulder bag that was seized from 5 maplegate drive in Etobicoke. A blood stain was found on the bag.

The bag that was seized from DM's Yukon when he was arrested says "Chevignon Trademark USA Label" on it, so the Diesel brand bag that was seized from Maplegate must be another bag?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2HcLKBpswT4UDdFTW1nZXA2REE/view?pref=2&pli=1

 

[ADAWG]

I have a feeling there will be gun residue found in this bag once they get into that portion of the testimony


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cansleuther]

I think any item that has both the victim's and the accused's DNA on it is going to be significant.

Am I recalling correctly that the Bosma's boarder testified that the taller man at the house had a shoulder bag?

Actually he couldn't recall if either of the men were carrying a bag:

...Dungey says that De Boer can’t say if tall guy had a satchel or anything...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-trial-day-2-crown-presents-1st-look-at-forensic-evidence-1.3429830


It was IT that remembered the taller guy with a bag:

Asked to describe the taller guy, Igor said: “The guy was taller than me but not like basketball player” and “he was skinny not fat like me” and he “was wearing a man bag, I call this Indiana Jones but much smaller, more Hangover like bag.”

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/by-special-request-day-4-of-the-tim-bosma-trial.html

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Would make more sense to leave the key in the ignition of the truck that was stored in the trailer. I agree it was more of a trophy being on his key ring.

Perhaps he had to monitor the key because of mistrust towards others?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I can see the RP going to town on this - DM picked the stained gloves up by accident, no one could possibly be THAT stupid. Or MS threatened DM to get rid of TB and that's how the gloves appeared on his person.

It's a bit weird though, DM's shoes had no traces of blood stains upon his arrest, so he must've at least had the foresight to get rid of them. And now we're learning that other people might've also used the gloves (and/or had their bodies handled by them). DNA evidence gets curiouser and curiouser.

What's the matter with MS' shoes?? No word about his.

 

[swedie]

I think any item that has both the victim's and the accused's DNA on it is going to be significant.

Am I recalling correctly that the Bosma's boarder testified that the taller man at the house had a shoulder bag?

No that was IT who said the taller guy had a man purse. IT is the military guy who took them for a test drive May 5th, the day before TB was murdered. HTH and MOO.

 

[TOR]

If I'm following its:
- Gloves with DNA from DM, CN, and "unknown male" (MS, SS, or TB..?)
- DMs Satchel/Murse with DNA from DM (and TB?)
- Cigs at the hangar with DNA from MS and MM (but SS uncle said MS came there often; wasnt employees tho)

... no DNA linking murder to MS ... ?
... no charges for MM or SS ...?

 

[swedie]

I hate saying this (don't even want to think about it) but someone had to clean Tim's cremains out of the incinerator. I doubt DM did it alone if he did it at all. MOO

IMO it appears thus far into the evidence DM liked to play "boss" and have others do his dirty work. MOO.

 

[Orderly]

Interesting theory. In this case, is MS guilty of 1st degree murder?

I don't think MS was exactly scared of DM. Remember, he was there for the test drive so he knew that the plan was to steal the truck. Furthermore, they were armed with a weapon. Under section 344 (1) of the Criminal Code, a person found guilty of armed robbery will serve a minimum of five years in prison. So, if they let him go they still would have served time in prison. The goal of the Defence is to raise "reasonable doubt". So far, we cannot "reasonably" say that he was not there at the time of the other test drive because his defence has submitted that he was. Maybe, we can say he was not there the night of the murder. However, if we make that argument then we still have to explain why his cellphone was in the general area that night. Let's say, DM stole his cellphone. Then, we still have to explain what he was doing with DM that night on the video with the incinerator? How did he get to the hangar? Who would have driven him there? He didn't have a car of his own, so it is almost near certain that DM drove him there and he was in the car with him when they went to commit the robbery. It is highly improbable that MS, just walked into DM with an incinerator and just decided to help him clean up. Also, why did he text his girlfriend that the owner of the truck is "gone, gone, gone". If it was him that texted her, that means there is no chance that DM stole his phone. Then, there is the issue of the two cars. How does one person drive two cars, they don't. So, there were two people. Why did they drive right away to the hangar, if they were just planning to rob the car? Unless, they were planning to kill him and so driving to the hangar makes sense. The only saving grace I can see for MS is lack of physical evidence, but the circumstantial evidence is very, very strong. I think it is important to note that the doubt that the defence raises has to be reasonable, they cannot just say whatever they want and then claim that it happened the way they said it did. So it seems to me, first degree murder is the reasonable charge.

IMO

 

[swedie]

Because TB's blood was found on his man purse? Just proving its his and not someone else's. How does the victims blood get on your murse if you have nothing to do with this?

MOO

I just had to...
[video=youtube;tF7coG0GrQ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF7coG0GrQ8[/video]