Bosma Murder Trial 03.03.16 - Day 19

[andreww]

This isn't the first time DM's played the thespian when the shell casing has been mentioned.

Id love to know if its a sincere "how did you leave that there you idiot" look or a fake "why oh why did you shoot him without my knowledge" look?

 

[MsSherlock]

Sachak suggesting the shell could not have rolled there is a joke. Of course it did not roll there, hopefully a firearm expert will refute this silly line of questions. The shell fired from the firearm pointed to the right regardless if front or back will eject a shell to the right at TOWARDS the back window. The shell could then get stuck behind the seat or in the seat and thus sloppy 'clean-up' failed to find and dispose of a key piece of evidence.

If they didn't bother to notice the corn stalk in the seat, I'm not surprised that they missed a shell casing and we're assuming they only shot once. I'm thinking that most of this evidence is as a result of DM's plans being uprooted by the knowledge that AJ had called CS's. MOO

 

[Typhoo1961]

With all of the stripping, sanding, removal of seats etc. from the truck, it really is amazing that they missed the shall casing. Amazing, but not surprising. And a great lucky break for LE.

A lucky break for TB as well. He needs that kind of evidence there in the cab of the truck to help prove what those dirtbags did to him.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

He's saying it couldn't have rolled to the back from the front. He's trying to establish that it was always in the back.

I believe MS's lawyer asked previously if it could have rolled from the front to the back when the truck was moved by LE.

They are trying to blame each other.

Its going to be VERY interesting to hear the separate defense presentations when we get to that. I think you are right and they will be VERY adversarial. IMO Guilty for sure but the defense will be showing 'the other guy is more guilty than my guy'.

 

[Abitcountry]

Further to the issue of " childlike documents" - Banks' wording here is significant. Something "childlike" is, by definition, something produced by someone who is NOT a child, just as "cat-like movements" are those of a being other than a cat. So we can rule out real children here; Banks would have used "childish" or "child's" if he were referring to something he actually believed was drawn or written by a child.

With respect to the printing vs cursive issue, French schools in France, and the Toronto French School here, do not teach young children printing. They are taught a French cursive script from the beginning, starting in Kindergarten. So DM probably never learned to print properly in English, and his cursive would look strange at best, as the letter formations are different and so are the joins.

IMHO. And respectfully........I refer you to any of the pictures of DM's letter to CN from Hamilton Detention center. That does not look like any French cursive script to me. It looks like plain, simple printing...and not even the mature print style that many adults develop and use in their daily lives...... I apologize for not attaching a photo but my device does not allow me.

 

[Ironworker736]

He's saying it couldn't have rolled to the back from the front. He's trying to establish that it was always in the back.

I believe MS's lawyer asked previously if it could have rolled from the front to the back when the truck was moved by LE.

​BBM

They are trying to blame each other.

They are definitely trying to blame each other, but the whole argument is ridiculous. In this scenario, that casing ends up in the back regardless of who pulled the trigger. IMO

 

[palisadesk]

DM's letter to Dee was all printed

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2013/08/dellen-millards-letter-from-jail.html

True, but it looks like the work of a Grade 7 student. My point was that he didn't learn the same writing skills in school as most Canadian kids and this probably contributes to the immature look of his English written output. He also forms his numerals in the European (UK and French) way.

 

[puppyraiser]

If they didn't bother to notice the corn stalk in the seat, I'm not surprised that they missed a shell casing and we're assuming they only shot once. I'm thinking that most of this evidence is as a result of DM's plans being uprooted by the knowledge that AJ had called CS's. MOO

I, too, suspect there was more than one shot fired. I don't know a lot about guns but I imagine that small caliber would do damage but not enough to silence person immediately, depending on location of injury.

 

[Kamille]

Sachak suggesting the shell could not have rolled there is a joke. Of course it did not roll there, hopefully a firearm expert will refute this silly line of questions. The shell fired from the firearm pointed to the right regardless if front or back will eject a shell to the right at TOWARDS the back window. The shell could then get stuck behind the seat or in the seat and thus sloppy 'clean-up' failed to find and dispose of a key piece of evidence.

I really don't understand why either lawyer is playing this "my client was in the front, yours in the back" game with the shell casing. After all that truck had been through prior to the discovery of that casing? Wherever that gun was fired from, that casing obviously ricocheted around and landed on the rear seat, actually rolling behind where MS was supposed to be sitting and lodging itself into the crevice.

MOO

 

[brightii]

:tyou: Velma and Kamille for the tweets! :cheers:

 

[Ironworker736]

I, too, suspect there was more than one shot fired. I don't know a lot about guns but I imagine that small caliber would do damage but not enough to silence person immediately, depending on location of injury.

A .380 packs plenty of punch, especially at close range. That's not to suggest only one shot was fired.

 

[Abitcountry]

He's saying it couldn't have rolled to the back from the front. He's trying to establish that it was always in the back.

I believe MS's lawyer asked previously if it could have rolled from the front to the back when the truck was moved by LE.

They are trying to blame each other.

When cartridges are ejected from a gun, I thought they were ejected with some force and likely were air born for a distance (such as from front seat area to back seat)
I was not under the impression that ejected bullets just sort of fell meekly somehow out of a gun and then rolled at their leisure.....pardon my humour.

 

[Velma]

The jury is now being recalled.
by Adam Carter 12:03 PM

I got myself a coffee and a snack during recess. Let's do this!

 

[Abitcountry]

I really don't understand why either lawyer is playing this "my client was in the front, yours in the back" game with the shell casing. After all that truck had been through prior to the discovery of that casing? Wherever that gun was fired from, that casing obviously ricocheted around and landed on the rear seat, actually rolling behind where MS was supposed to be sitting and lodging itself into the crevice.

MOO

�� can't believe it's that 'old shell game' again

 

[Kamille]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Jury back. Sachak still cross examining Banks. Seeing photo of back of #Bosma cab.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Dungey again objecting to speculation about movement of casing. Sachak throwing back to Dungey his own previous speculation on this issue.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
"What's good for the goose is good for the gander," says Sachak.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Judge tells jurors to hear the evidence and make up their own minds. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 5m5 minutes ago
"Go through all these obstacles to get where it ended up," Sachak says of casing's possible path along floor of cab.


***Maybe Dungey was reading here and realized the location of the bullet is actually favourable to his client and wants to end this speculation. LOL

 

[Prairie_dawg]

When cartridges are ejected from a gun, I thought they were ejected with some force and likely were air born for a distance (such as from front seat area to back seat)
I was not under the impression that ejected bullets just sort of fell meekly somehow out of a gun and then rolled at their leisure.....pardon my humour.

In fact if Sachak continues this line it makes the Crown more than likely to bring in an expert which they probably will and the trajectory of a shell is MORE likely to have sailed from the front seat to the back as a back seat shot would have been so close to the rear window it likely would ricochet off and bounce back towards the front seat. I think the shell there makes a front seat shot FAR more likely but then I am not an expert. JMO

 

[Velma]

Dungey objects, and says this is speculation. "The object could go in many ways. It could fly back. This is all speculation," he says.
by Adam Carter 12:07 PM

Sachak says that Dungey also put hypothesis to the jury previously about the shell casing. "What is good for the goose is good for the gander," Sachak says.
by Adam Carter 12:07 PM

Goodman allows the questioning, but says the jury can't take it as fact.
by Adam Carter 12:08 PM

#thatoldshellgame :wink:

 

[Kamille]

A .380 packs plenty of punch, especially at close range. That's not to suggest only one shot was fired.

Speaking of that, where would someone in Canada legally obtain Winchester .380 bullets for this gun? I'm surprised LE didn't find a box of them somewhere in the mess at Maplegate Dr.

MOO

 

[Velma]

"Once again sir, you see that this ledge or the wall extends from the left portion of the cab to the right portion. If a casing was in the front, driver's side and was rolling back, once it gets to the back, there's still this ledge or wall that it has to overcome," Sachak says.
by Adam Carter 12:10 PM

View attachment 90089
Here's a picture of the back where the casing was found.
by Adam Carter 12:11 PM

 

[Ironworker736]

Speaking of that, where would someone in Canada legally obtain Winchester .380 bullets for this gun? I'm surprised LE didn't find a box of them somewhere in the mess at Maplegate Dr.

MOO

Any gun shop. Even some Canadian Tire stores stock them. But you would need a valid PAL license.