Bosma Murder Trial 03.07.16 - Day 20

[Ontario Mom]

While I agree with you...has the Crown been able to confirm unequivocally that it was MS that was there? I believe Igor identified them both as being on his test drive but I don't think SB or the tenant at their home (sorry..can't recall his name) confirmed that it was MS. MOO

When SB was giving her testimony she was asked if she'd ever seen those two before May 6th. I don't recall the exact wording but it's been suggested what the wording was intended to show, was that she DID see those 2 on the 6th, but had never seen them before that.

 

[billandrew]

Except for the fact that both SB and WDB saw him get in the truck with Tim and DM and drive away. Did DM stop and let MS out first? For that matter, there's actually no evidence DM was in the truck at the time of the murder. They could have pulled over, DM got out, MS took the wheel... etc.

All we know so far, is that those 2 left the Bosma residence in the truck with Tim, and Tim was dead within moments. I suppose the Crown has plenty of evidence if they intend to prove they BOTH shot him, and that is what they have stated they intend to prove.

BBM. This is what most people, including myself, currently believe about TB's time of death. However, I'm not aware of any actual evidence being presented about this yet.

For whatever it's worth, I noticed that the police recorded an occurrence time for the murder of 9:15pm (see pic below). I don't know if this time is just a rough estimate, or if they have some specific knowledge of the time of the murder and we just haven't heard about it yet. Either way, it's interesting, so I thought I'd share it here!



PS: this pic is from the computer forensics exhibit.

 

[brightii]

Hi everyone: I hope you all had a good weekend.

It's good to know the Crown has now called about 2/3 of its witnesses. I believe they are carefully building their case block by block and saving the best witnesses for last. Once all witnesses have testified for the Crown they will then paint a very clear picture of all the evidence and then we'll see the big picture and how their strategy all makes sense, IMO.

Today's testimony from the blood spatter expert strengthens the Crown's position IMO as it does not identify either DM or MS specifically as the shooter, and unless DM or MS dispute the incriminating totality of the evidence presented, by offering a story of their own to counter it, they will both be held responsible for shooting TB, IMO. I hope so!

All MOO.

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

I just mean, as far as we know/via mainstream media, that SB has never been asked to state in court that MS and DM were the people present at the test drive.

Which is different from saying she cannot identify them.

If I'm incorrect, and she has been asked and has declined or been unable to identify them, let me know.

Edit: It's possible I'm still missing nuances of this.

I don't think you are missing nuances...it is how everyone interprets the different nuances. I remember commenting on SB's exact words when she was testifying and the question that was asked of her. Here is the original Tweet:

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 52s52 seconds ago Hamilton, Ontario
Crown points to Dellen Millard + Mark Smich asks Sharlene Bosma, have you ever seen these men before May 6, 2013? Crying, Sharlene says no

That question, to me, was HUGE! They didn't ask her to identify them by straight up asking her if those were the men on her driveway. They asked her if she had ever seen these men before that night....which is a backwards way of her being able to say that the two men on her driveway were the ones she is looking at in court but she had never seen them before that night. I have a feeling this point will be brought back up by the Crown in their closing. MOO

 

[dar107]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2h2 hours ago

Jones is the 67th witness called so far by the Crown at the Tim #Bosma murder trial. Another 39 to go. We're on Week 6.

Wow, it does not seem like there has been 67 people on the stand already....

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

When SB was giving her testimony she was asked if she'd ever seen those two before May 6th. I don't recall the exact wording but it's been suggested what the wording was intended to show, was that she DID see those 2 on the 6th, but had never seen them before that.

You and I are in each other's heads. While I was typing up my response with regards to SB's testimony (which involved having to find the original Tweet...) you were pointing out the same thing that came to mind. Well done!

 

[SnooperDuper]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
And we're back. #Bosma

 

[swedie]

Unfortunately, up to this point (and I stress "up to this point"), I have yet to see any solid evidence that puts MS in the truck at the time of the murder. So, IMO, not only has the Crown yet to prove who pulled the trigger, they've not even proved MS was there, only that his phone may have been.

The Crown hasn't presented any evidence of blood in the Yukon yet and maybe they won't because perhaps there was no blood found in it. IMO if MS was sitting in the back seat of Tim's truck and shot him, no doubt MS would have had blood and matter on him. He would have transferred blood into the Yukon. I think that will be the telling evidence whether blood was found in the Yukon and how much. MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Jones still on the stand. Pillay up now to cross-examine. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 33s34 seconds ago
Pillay is cross examining Jones about cleanup of #Bosma truck.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Some parts of truck were removed. Some blood stains were altered, Pillay suggests. Jones agrees.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Pillay asking about clean up, seats being removed. Could've been a significant amount of blood on seats? Jones says he can't say. #Bosma

 

[Gibson67]

The Crown hasn't presented any evidence of blood in the Yukon yet and maybe they won't because perhaps there was no blood found in it. IMO if MS was sitting in the back seat of Tim's truck and shot him, no doubt MS would have had blood and matter on him. He would have transferred blood into the Yukon. I think that will be the telling evidence whether blood was found in the Yukon and how much. MOO.

I am thinking he would have had blood and matter on him either way..even if he was still sitting right behind Tim and Dellen had shot him..I think..correct?

 

[swedie]

Except for the fact that both SB and WDB saw him get in the truck with Tim and DM and drive away. Did DM stop and let MS out first? For that matter, there's actually no evidence DM was in the truck at the time of the murder. They could have pulled over, DM got out, MS took the wheel... etc.

All we know so far, is that those 2 left the Bosma residence in the truck with Tim, and Tim was dead within moments. I suppose the Crown has plenty of evidence if they intend to prove they BOTH shot him, and that is what they have stated they intend to prove.

IMO I don't think they can safely say without a doubt who the actually shooter was, that is why they are both being blamed.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 16s17 seconds ago
No question in Jones' mind that there was a cleanup. But he doesn't know the extent of it or if cleaning agents were used.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
He doesn't know how many people cleaned it, for how long, using what.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
It's possible, Pillay says. Jones agrees. Pillay says floors were painted. Other parts (incl carpets) removed. Jones: correct. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 59s60 seconds ago
P: but what you don't know is the extent of the cleanup...how long or how many people involved. Jones: correct. #Bosma

 

[SnooperDuper]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 32s33 seconds ago
P: You don't know if there were bloody clothes involved in the cleanup that transferred blood from one area to another. Jones agrees. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 28s29 seconds ago
Pillay: "You don't know if there was bloody clothes used during the cleanup that spread blood from one area to another?" Jones: "No."

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
P: you can't provide us with what exactly occurred in the truck and where. Jones agrees. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 53s54 seconds ago
Jones says there had to be a blood source in front of glove compartment. But he can't say what exactly happened inside truck. #Bosma

 

[SnooperDuper]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Pillay asks about blood becoming airborne, creating a stain. Asks if pool of blood can "go airborne" to cause spatter stain. Jones says yes.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 31s32 seconds ago
#Millard lawyer Pillay now questioning blood spatter expert on things he can't be sure of; ie: was the blood cleaned with water? Rag?

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 21s21 seconds ago
Pool of blood on seat could create spatter? Jones says depends on if it's absorbed by fabric.

 

[swedie]

I am thinking he would have had blood and matter on him either way..even if he was still sitting right behind Tim and Dellen had shot him..I think..correct?

Sorry I left out that IF MS had gotten out of Tim's truck prior to Tim being shot, MS wouldn't have gotten blood and matter all over him (as opposed to sitting in the back seat, behind Tim when shot) and then transferred it to the Yukon. HTH and MOO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

BBM. This is what most people, including myself, currently believe about TB's time of death. However, I'm not aware of any actual evidence being presented about this yet.

For whatever it's worth, I noticed that the police recorded an occurrence time for the murder of 9:15pm (see pic below). I don't know if this time is just a rough estimate, or if they have some specific knowledge of the time of the murder and we just haven't heard about it yet. Either way, it's interesting, so I thought I'd share it here!

View attachment 90279

PS: this pic is from the computer forensics exhibit.

I noticed that from the slides last week as well (which is why I said moments). That was the evidence tag on the iPad found in MS bedroom.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Power washer into a fabric seat could cause spatter? Jones says it could. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 16s17 seconds ago
Force of water from hose could cause blood to disperse, Jones agrees. Pillay suggests blood source could be person or a pool of blood.

 

[swedie]

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 15m15 minutes ago
Millard's lawyer Ravin Pillay now beginning his cross examination of Jones.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 14m14 minutes ago
Pillay asks if it's fair that he believes there was a cleanup in the vehicle. He says that's fair.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 15m15 minutes ago
Jones says he can't know how much blood could have been on the front seats or carpets.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 12m12 minutes ago
You'd agree with me that blood could have been moved around the vehicle as the result of the cleaning process? Pillay says

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 11m11 minutes ago
"You don't know if blood fell off the seats or pooled off the seats during cleanup?" Pillay asks. "That's correct," Jones says

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
Pillay asks if any hypothetical (like the three the Crown put forth) is "pure speculation." Jones says that's fair.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 2m2 minutes ago
You agree with me that blood can spatter from trying to move a body that has been bleeding? Pillay says. Jones says it's possible.

 

[Ontario Mom]

You and I are in each other's heads. While I was typing up my response with regards to SB's testimony (which involved having to find the original Tweet...) you were pointing out the same thing that came to mind. Well done!

I was just too lazy to go find the tweet, so well done for you

 

[brightii]

:tyou: Kamille and SnooperDuper and swedie for today's tweets!

I was out this morning and following along with AC's live blog on CBC on my phone. Of all the journalists covering this trial, I think AC does a wonderful and thorough job in particular.

What I find most valuable though in following this case is having the opportunity for feedback and discussion on this site - that can't be overstated!! Watching tweets roll by with tidbits of information cannot take the place of WS and all of your input which, for me, expands and deepens my own understanding of the case. I especially appreciate having an opportunity to be exposed to all the various viewpoints that enlighten and challenge my thinking. Following this trial without you all would be a lonely experience and it can't be fully comprehended by one mind or one heart alone, IMO. Thank you all so much for your input!

I imagine the jury to be made up of ordinary people like us, working together as a team. I'm sure they come from a variety of backgrounds and experiences and each have a perspective on the evidence as it unfolds. Unlike us, they have the benefit of hearing and seeing all the evidence, the witnesses, the accused, the lawyers and the victim's family in real life as the trial progresses. I trust that they are like us in questioning and examining every little detail and I trust they will come to the right verdict.

All MOO.