Bosma Murder Trial 03.08.16 - Day 21

[Kamille]

TB's phone was still in Brantford as it was thrown out...would it ping when the battery dies?

I think we did discuss this at some point but I did mention before that according to cell phone experts from another trial that I followed a couple of years ago, a phone will ping just before it loses battery power. This could be from the battery dying, the battery being removed or a phone being destroyed or submerged right at that moment.

Since we know that the employees at Kemira had to plug the phone into a charger to get it to work, and a phone is still accessing power even when shut off, I'm guessing that if the very last ping from that phone was at 10:56pm, that is when the battery died.

MOO

 

[brightii]

The video testimony today has me going back to the cell phone activity, and as I'm trying to line everything up, I found this strange inconsistency:

On trial day 3, Det. Sgt. Greg Jackson testified that at 10:01pm TB's phone accessed the browser data and at 10:02pm the phone was shut off. This is around the same time the vehicles departed the Bobcat dealership in Brantford. Then, at 10:56pm TB's phone pings at Colborne St in Brantford. How could TB's phone ping after it was turned off? Is this possible? Three different reporters (Adam Carter, Susan Clairmont, Nicole Martin) tweeted this so it doesn't seem like an error in the reporting. Maybe in error in the testimony?

The vehicles were captured on video in Cambridge by 10:26pm, so it's not like they went back to Brantford and turned TB's phone back on at 10:56pm.

You can review the tweets about the mysterious 10:56pm ping here.

It is my understanding that the cell phone could be shut off without being completely shut down. On my phone I have to press hard on the button for longer than a second or so to completely shut it off, but if I press lightly on the same button the screen goes black and it appears to be shut down but is not. Also depending on how much charge was left on the cell phone at the time it was discarded, it could IMO last anywhere from minutes to several hours before running out of battery life. HTH

What strikes me as odd is the addresses TB's cell phone pinged in two different locations a half an hour apart and not just from the one where the cell phone was actually later located, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe we are about to hear how and why that happened? I don't know the area at all so I'm no help in figuring out where TB's truck, phone or the Yukon were at theses times.

All MOO.

 

[andreww]

I'm finding it hard to believe a phone will ping when powered off. Has anyone verified that?


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[Kamille]

Colborne St. isn't near Oak Park Rd. It must be 9:56? You can drive from Colborne St. to Oak Park Rd. in that time. Why oh why would they drive through downtown Brantford? If they had taken the 403 there is an exit to Oak Park Rd.

edit: No. Can't do it that quick, and the time still doesn't work. Must be an error on the time.

Do we know what carrier TB used? When they give a cell phone ping location, it is the tower that the phone pinged from. If the tower for his carrier was near Colburne, that doesn't necessarily mean the phone was.


MOO

 

[Kamille]

I'm finding it hard to believe a phone will ping when powered off. Has anyone verified that?


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It does not. It will ping when it is powered down. See my post #325

MOO

 

[billandrew]

I'm putting together a consolidated timeline for May 6, 2013. I'll try to update it as I get more information:

https://goo.gl/URpYBy

 

[Kamille]

Yes if the phone is turned off it still will ping. So even if you turn your phone off but someone calls/texts you, they will expose your location.

A cell phone will not ping when it is turned off. It will ping once as it is powered down.

MOO

 

[Night_is_Mine]

I'm finding it hard to believe a phone will ping when powered off. Has anyone verified that?


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It will.

 

[Night_is_Mine]

A cell phone will not ping when it is turned off. It will ping once as it is powered down.

MOO

Incorrect. Look it up.

 

[billandrew]

I'm putting together a consolidated timeline for May 6, 2013. I'll try to update it as I get more information:

https://goo.gl/URpYBy

Something interesting I noticed: the Yukon drives south down Trinity (toward Bosma's house) at 8:46pm in front of Super Sucker. This location is about a two minute drive, or less, from Bosma's house. The Bate phone called TB at 9:05pm. This is the time they were essentially walking up TB's driveway. So there's about 19 minutes there. They probably scoped out the area and figured out where to park the Yukon during this time. They also needed to walk some distance from the Yukon to Bosma's house.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Considering the video evidence and Tim's phone pinging on Colborne Rd. (which really just means that's the tower his phone pinged from, not that he or his phone were actually on that road) I do find the timing rather curious.

Not really sure why his phone pinged off that tower when there are towers much closer - according to this cell tower map http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/cancellsites.html (the one on Colborne is a Wind Mobile, and the two closer to where his phone were found are Rogers and another Wind).

I've always heard that yes, your phone will still ping if it's off, but I don't know if that's actually true. I know the only way it STOPS pinging, is if the battery dies or is removed (and Tim's wasn't removed).

 

[Kamille]

Incorrect. Look it up.

This indicates to me that you have a source that says a shut off cell phone continues to ping a tower? Do you have that link handy? Perhaps things have changed in the last couple of years since I followed another trial.

TIA

 

[Ironworker736]

I'm not sure if either DM or MS planned to kill TB, but I do think the evidence suggests strongly that one or both went on that test drive prepared to kill TB if things didn't go as they expected, IMO.

The thing that makes me lean toward the idea that the murder was planned is in context to what we presume to know about LB and WM having been murdered prior to TB by one or both of the accused, IMO. Unfortunately, as I understand it, the jury will not have information about LB or WM's deaths to prejudice their assessment of the situation regarding TB's murder, but these prior murders surely prejudice mine, IMO.

All MOO.

<BBM>
Exactly...those allegations have not been presented in court, let alone proven. And I don't find it unfortunate at all that they won't hear about them, quite the contrary. Condemning a person based on unproven allegations is not justice, for the accused or for the victim.

ETA - do not read this as support for either of the accused. I am simply trying to look at the evidence objectively, not based on assumption and emotion.

 

[JuneBug67]

It's been proven by circumstantial evidence. They loaded the gun: they intended to kill, not intimidate.

Glad DM has at least one fervent supporter.

I don't read support for DM in any of andreww's posts at all. I think he's just stating facts the way that several members also interpret them with regard to premeditation.

 

[swedie]

Wasn't it tweeted way back by one of the reporters MS had shut off his phone or pulled the battery out prior to or after the test drive with TB? Which means MS's phone wouldn't ping or be traceable once he did that? MOO.

 

[Night_is_Mine]

If your phone is off and someone calls you, they still can leave a voice mail right? So there is your ping mystery.

 

[Arnie M]

I'm finding it hard to believe a phone will ping when powered off. Has anyone verified that?


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When turning off a cell phone it always communicates that info to the surrounding towers and lets the cellular system know the phone is not receiving calls and sends stuff to voice mail or whatever

Same as when you turn it on ... the phone is now "logged in" to the system , and pings the nearby towers , and keeps track of what towers you get switched over to as you travel

That is how the cellular system knows if you are in Brantfort Ontario or Vancouver BC.

 

[SnooperDuper]

If your phone is off and someone calls you, they still can leave a voice mail right? So there is your ping mystery.

But then the system is looking for your phone on the network, is unable to contact, and switches to the voice mail system. I am not sure that there would be a ping because by definition the phone can't be found on the network.

 

[JuneBug67]

If your phone is off and someone calls you, they still can leave a voice mail right? So there is your ping mystery.

But the voice mail is not left on your phone. It could be that the carrier tries to locate the phone as being on and in a service area, can't, and then redirects the call to the voice mail system. I'm not sure what the relationship would be between the ability to have voice mail recorded and the ability to send a ping.

 

[SnooperDuper]

When turning off a cell phone it always communicates that info to the surrounding towers and lets the cellular system know the phone is not receiving calls and sends stuff to voice mail or whatever

Same as when you turn it on ... the phone is now "logged in" to the system , and pings the nearby towers , and keeps track of what towers you get switched over to as you travel

That is how the cellular system knows if you are in Brantfort Ontario or Vancouver BC.

I don't think the phone network saves state. It may seek a phone on the network and if not found, switch to voice mail. However the state of the phone would not be saved (would clog up the network with useless data)