Bosma Murder Trial 03.08.16 - Day 21

[billandrew]

Adam Carter
Mar 8 2016 12:10 PM
In the meantime, here's my recap from this morning:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/gun-likely-fired-inside-tim-bosma-s-truck-1.3481024

***Since it appears to me that the gun may be sitting on the table in the office of the Millard house, I'd love to know what was considered too prejudicial to be shown that has been blocked out in that picture.


MOO

Maybe a talented photo analyst among us can make out the reflection in the gun?

 

[jash]

Mar 8 2016 12:36 PM
Assistant Crown Tony Leitch asking about May of 2013, when Plaxton first became involved, back when it was a missing person's case.

Mar 8 2016 12:37 PM
Investigators direct Plaxton to areas with video surveillance systems to download and study it.

Mar 8 2016 12:38 PM
PLaxton was originally asked to look for other vehicles like a White Pickup, a Grey Toyota, a Yukon or Suburban.

BBM - I wonder what the significance of the white pickup or grey Toyota is. This was probably when they still believed a third vehicle may have been involved.

 

[billandrew]

Adam Carter
Mar 8 2016 12:10 PM
In the meantime, here's my recap from this morning:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/gun-likely-fired-inside-tim-bosma-s-truck-1.3481024

***Since it appears to me that the gun may be sitting on the table in the office of the Millard house, I'd love to know what was considered too prejudicial to be shown that has been blocked out in that picture.


MOO

I was disappointed when I opened the PowerPoint slides for this, and there was a gray box over the picture that you can delete, but then the actual picture underneath was greyed out too!

 

[Satchie]

I google streetviewed along Oak Park Rd, it looked a) to have very few street lights - they wouldn't want anyone passing to be able to see in the cab....b) Bobcat seems to be the first place where someone could pull in where no one would be there. Most of the other businesses have gates - the options for randomly pulling over are extremely limited along there.

Also wondering about the passenger window. If blown out by gunshot it'd be loud, also leave a mess.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Of course it's not offensive. All very reasonable. I think the difference for me is that it's a reasonable assumption that it was not a surprise to either man that a gun was brought to the test drive in what I think was a pretty clearly premeditated theft. It's not reasonable to me that one or both expected to relieve Tim of his truck and his phone just by overpowering him manually with fists or force. Given that I think it's fair to assume that the weapon was intended to threaten and control Tim at a minimum it was an inherently dangerous situation. They both signed on to a situation where the potential for deadly violence was so foreseeable that you couldn't really be just 'along for the ride'. It might have been a tragically stupid decision by a person much less culpable in some ways, but I understand why the law does not, cannot and should not see it as such.

I think it's safe to sum up their intentions as, they may not have planned murder, BUT they did not preclude it.

 

[Kamille]

BBM - I wonder what the significance of the white pickup or grey Toyota is. This was probably when they still believed a third vehicle may have been involved.

Not sure they ever considered a third vehicle, just a third person. The other vehicles that Plaxton was asked to look for were in play when it was still a missing person's investigation. I think those may have been vehicles that witnesses in the area reported seeing around Trinity Rd on the night in question. And any of them could have been the one that dropped off the two men in TB's driveway I suppose?

MOO

 

[Sphinx]

Exactly - because he PLANNED to kill.

DM really wanted to go Baha desert racing, and was determined to get that truck. If he left a witness who could easily identify both he and MS, there is a good chance he never would have made it to the race, so he planned to kill the owner, and destroy the body, thinking he would get away with murder a third time. It sounds like something out of a violent video game, but that is where their minds were -- pathetic as that sounds. IMO

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

BBM - I wonder what the significance of the white pickup or grey Toyota is. This was probably when they still believed a third vehicle may have been involved.

CN's driveway has two grey vehicles. Other than one being a mini-van, not sure what the makes and models are.

 

[JuneBug67]

I wonder if the stop over on video we learned about today could be further support for the unplanned murder theory. It's easier to imagine it as a "Christly hell WHAT do we do now" discussion rather than a "Here we are, as planned, stopping for a smoke with our corpse before we head out to the farm".

 

[artemis17]

Totally a possibility. The cell phone evidence and general sloppiness has me most of the way convinced that this was not a planned murder.

If not planned as a murder how do you plan to steal a truck from someone on a test drive where many people including the seller see both you and your buddy and know the phone number you used etc?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[musicaljoke]

So we know how many people are following along and have interest in this case. HTH.

And now we have more visitors. There are currently 168 users browsing this thread. (52 members and 116 guests)

That info is at the bottom of each pg, so anyone can see it.

 

[brightii]

DM really wanted to go Baha desert racing, and was determined to get that truck. If he left a witness who could easily identify both he and MS, there is a good chance he never would have made it to the race, so he planned to kill the owner, and destroy the body, thinking he would get away with murder a third time. It sounds like something out of a violent video game, but that is where their minds were -- pathetic as that sounds. IMO

Both DM and MS would have to be among the most brazen criminals in history to be unconcerned that both SB and WdB could ID them, IMO.

I think it's hard for the average person to get inside the heads of those who think like that, but it is very possible IMO, if DM and/or MS had killed before without causing too much suspicion that they could have thought that they'd get rid of TB's body by way of the Eliminator and no one could trace them to the scene of the crime.

I think DM and/or MS simply felt invincible. Obviously, they lacked judgment in so many ways and for whatever number of reasons.

All MOO.

 

[ABro]

....that I can't wait to read about, along with seeing SS and CN take the stand
for the crown (since if they didn't comply then it was to be 'bye bye' to jail for a much longer time).

Exactly what incentive do you think the Crown had to make a deal with either of these people?

Deals are made because the Crown (believes it) needs to make them.

They must also be disclosed.

 

[ABro]

But then the system is looking for your phone on the network, is unable to contact, and switches to the voice mail system. I am not sure that there would be a ping because by definition the phone can't be found on the network.

No. Voice Mail doesn't go to your phone. It goes to a mailbox with your cell provider until you retrieve it.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

That info is at the bottom of each pg, so anyone can see it.

And it changes over time, by writing a message it gets recorded at a point in time for all to reference

 

[ABro]

Yes if the phone is turned off it still will ping. So even if you turn your phone off but someone calls/texts you, they will expose your location.

This is not true. Go look at the cell pings powerpoint where the messages flood in to Mark Smich's phone after he turns it on.

 

[matou]

[h=1]Tim Bosma Murder Trial: Was a gun stored in this toolbox at Smich's house? | EXHIBIT #91[/h]
[video=youtube;iUqyOOoOKHw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUqyOOoOKHw&index=2&list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA[/video]

 

[matou]

[h=1]Tim Bosma Murder Trial: Who is holding this gun? Dellen Millard | EXHIBIT #96[/h]
[video=youtube;2l3VnxV-BSc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l3VnxV-BSc&index=1&list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA[/video]

 

[artemis17]

Exactly what incentive do you think the Crown had to make a deal with either of these people?

Deals are made because the Crown (believes it) needs to make them.

They must also be disclosed.

I think the crown has told CN that she better cooperate during her testimony in this trial as her trial comes after which I believe to be planned for her to fulfill her end and maybe she will get lesser charges or something to that effect

Mar 8 2016 11:06 AM
The next witness is a supervisor with the fingerprint section of Toronto Police. She mumbled the spelling of her name, so I can't say exactly what it is.

Mar 8 2016 11:07 AM
She is now in the qualification process to be an expert witness for fingerprinting.

Mar 8 2016 11:09 AM
Got her name - it's Christianne Lys. She's qualified as an expert.

Mar 8 2016 11:11 AM
Court now seeing a presentation from Lys about the automated fingerprint identification system, which is a storage, search and retrieval database for finger and palm impressions of "known individuals" along with unsolved prints from crime scenes. It uses an algorithm to assist the examiner in the case.

Mar 8 2016 11:12 AM
In February of 2014, a photo of a finger was emailed to her section. "We were asked if an individual can be identified from a photo of a finger," Lys says.

Mar 8 2016 11:13 AM
She says it depends on many factors, like resolution, etc.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[ABro]

I think the crown has told CN that she better cooperate during her testimony in this trial as her trial comes after which I believe to be planned for her to fulfill her end and maybe she will get lesser charges or something to that effect



Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

CN has to show up in court and testify. Nothing she says can be used against her at her own trial unless she perjures herself.

The charge against her is the same as it's always been. The Crown opposed her bail.

Again, what incentive does the Crown have to make a deal with CN in your opinion? It takes two to make a deal not just one.