Bosma Murder Trial 04.06.16 - Day 31

[brightii]

In defense of TD's cross today of BD, IMO he extracted some very important information about DM, how DM was thought of by BD (sketchy) and by MS (afraid of him, being framed for TB's murder by him). To his credit, TD also put forth another scenario about the gun in the toolbox having been a surprise to MS which IMO does make sense. That gun in the toolbox and perhaps drugs too was sent as a "message" from DM to silence or mollify MS, IMO. These are details that the Crown or DM's defense would not welcome being put forward, so I think so far, while Dungey may seem to be trying to confuse, I see it as him trying to get the witness to tell the whole truth for his client's benefit, IMO. By reiterating that BD is not a snitch, but a citizen, I see TD trying to make him feel safe and comfortable about telling the court everything BD knows.

IMO, Dungey has to walk a very thin line with BD because he did get some gems from him and BD is testifying as MS's best friend (at the time) so IMO, TD does not want to completely obliterate his testimony. Perhaps, as his cross nears the close, TD will be harder on BD?

All MOO.

 

[Velma]

"So the gun in the video has nothing to do with the gun in the toolbox," Dungey says in that statement. "Correct," Daly says.
by Adam Carter 2:12 PM

"Mr. Smich never told you that his gun was the one in the toolbox," Dungey says. "Yes he did," Daly says.
by Adam Carter 2:13 PM

Daly again says he didn't know which gun Smich had.
by Adam Carter 2:14 PM

Assistant Crown Brett Moodie now re-examining.
by Adam Carter 2:14 PM

 

[SnooperDuper]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 27s27 seconds ago
There's confusion here, Dungey says: "Mr Smich never told you his gun was the one in the toolbox."

Daly says yes he did. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 11s11 seconds ago
"He doesn't tell you what gun he had," Dungey says. Daly agrees. #Bosma

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 37s37 seconds ago Toronto, Ontario
Dungey has repeatedly had Daly repeat his frame of mind was 'hazy' when he was talking to police, and when he hung out with Smich

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 36s36 seconds ago
No further questions from Dungey. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 1m1 minute ago
Daly says he didn't know which gun Smich had. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Was originally scheduled for four months.

 

[Kamille]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 51s51 seconds ago
He says Smich said they were for a gun he wanted, but he ended up with a different one and Dell got that one that he'd wanted. #Bosma

Goodman cautions the jury that they shouldn't be considering that another firearm was mentioned in terms of reaching a verdict in this case.
by Adam Carter 1:07 PM

Thanks for that. So either there are two guns or BD was confused about what MS was saying regarding the purchase of a gun/guns. Because at the time they were discussing it, it seems that there was only one gun around and it was in the toolbox. So if there were two guns at some point, long before this murder going back to the beginning of 2012, are we to assume that one was used in the LB and/or WM murders, and possibly confiscated by LE at the time of WM's death, and the other was the one that MS supposedly got and they still had at the time of TB's murder? And seriously, do we believe that MS was ever able to put out a couple of thousand dollars for a gun?

MOO

ETA: After billandrew lightened up that picture of MS holding the gun, you can see that it's the same gun as the one DM was holding. I believe there were even the same scratch marks. It's just that the resolution in the camera in older model Ipads was very poor so the actual pic of the gun is very blurry and you can't really see any detail.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 1m1 minute ago
Crown now reexamining Daly.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Crown (Brett Moodie) up to reexamine. Re: Dungey's last Q, when you say he didn't tell you what gun he had are you referring to the type?

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
"Exactly," Daly says. Smich didn't tell him what type of gun he had. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 2m2 minutes ago
Daly says he didn't know what type of gun Smich had. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
Moodie asking about Smich's concerns people were coming after him. Moodie says he won't repeat the word Daly says Smich used... #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Dungey finished. Crown Moodie doing re-exam. Daly was sober for second statement to police. Smich said "n....s" coming to get him. Who was?

 

[Velma]

Daly says when he said he didn't know what gun Smich had, he meant the type of gun.
by Adam Carter 2:15 PM

Daly says Smich didn't tell him who the people were who were after him or what group they were from. Moodie asks Daly if he'd like to reread his statement.
by Adam Carter 2:16 PM

Daly reading from his May 31 police statement. "I assumed that it had been a robbery and that a person's friends -" he says. Dungey objects as to an assumption.
by Adam Carter 2:17 PM

Goodman asks the jury to step out. Now going to be a legal argument.
by Adam Carter 2:19 PM

 

[SnooperDuper]

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 1m1 minute ago Toronto, Ontario
Crown now up with Daly again, reviewing police statement from May 31, 2013 #BosmaTrial

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
...but asks Daly who that was in reference to. Daly doesn't know. Moodie giving him his statement to refresh his memory. #Bosma

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 1m1 minute ago Toronto, Ontario
Crown going specifically through police statement, about who Daly said Smich thought was coming after him #BosmaTrial

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 43s44 seconds ago
Objection now from Dungey after Daly said "my assumption..."

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 29s30 seconds ago
Did Smich tell you what group of people he thought were coming after him? Moodie asks. #Bosma

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 30s30 seconds ago Toronto, Ontario
Jury being excused for a moment #BosmaTrial

 

[Juballee]

I agree except that TD isn't asking him to recall. He's putting words in his mouth, using the drug/alcohol angle to do so. He's even asking him to contradict his "forth-coming" police statements. And purposely creating as much confusion as possible. Classic smoke and mirrors routine. If it were Pillay up there, I am positive that there would be more outrage about this cross. ALL MOO

Yesterday after the crown questioned the witness, it seemed clear that there were two different guns, and that the one MS bought was the .38 that was locked in the toolbox by DM, and not the one with the zombie bullets that DM bought. The fact that his gun matched the casing found where he was last seen sitting, firmed up in my mind that it was in fact MS that brought the gun, which means to me that it was MS who had the premeditation and followed through on it.

But after Dungey claimed that everything negative that Daly had to say was a result of him being drunk and stoned, and that MS was shocked to hear his gun was found in the toolbox, I hear the confusion it has caused even amongst the sleuthers who are supposed to be able to keep all this info straight.

It seems almost as if Dungey has fans, which I honestly find a little surprising for those wishing to see justice for Tim. Personally, I find the badgering and misdirection to be an insult to my intelligence, and I hope that the jury sees through it.

My opinion only.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 25s25 seconds ago
Both are charged. Judge will instruct jury on decision tree for verdict.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 41s42 seconds ago
Justice Goodman sends jury out. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 23s24 seconds ago
Daly said that he assumed the people coming to get Smich were the friends of a robbery victim #TimBosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 15s15 seconds ago
Dungey objects. Witness and jury leave for legal arguments. #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 10s10 seconds ago
Jury asked to step out for a moment. #Bosma

 

[brightii]

Yes, I have respect for TD. Having respect for him as a capable lawyer in no way means I don't want to see justice for TB and his family. We all want that above all else, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[Londoneye]

That's because they've only been cross-examining so far. Bits and pieces. They'll get their turn to present their case when the Crown rests. It's pieces of a puzzle for them, as much as it is for the Crown. IMO

Agreed. But the cross is to discredit or disprove the Crown or at least un-incriminate their client. Haven't seen that at all. I've heard DM is an " always visible Rich business man who made bad choices in friends". I'm not here engineering the hang DM train trust me. If I sound like I'm jumping to conclusions or laying guilt before all evidence has been presented I apologize, but even with cross you can get a glimpse of the line of defense. Also they're not doing the same puzzle either. Each one puts together their own and tries to prove the complete and truthful picture. MOO

 

[billandrew]

Yesterday after the crown questioned the witness, it seemed clear that there were two different guns, and that the one MS bought was the .38 that was locked in the toolbox by DM, and not the one with the zombie bullets that DM bought. The fact that his gun matched the casing found where he was last seen sitting, firmed up in my mind that it was in fact MS that brought the gun, which means to me that it was MS who had the premeditation and followed through on it.

But after Dungey claimed that everything negative that Daly had to say was a result of him being drunk and stoned, and that MS was shocked to hear his gun was found in the toolbox, I hear the confusion it has caused even amongst the sleuthers who are supposed to be able to keep all this info straight.

It seems almost as if Dungey has fans, which I honestly find a little surprising for those wishing to see justice for Tim. Personally, I find the badgering and misdirection to be an insult to my intelligence, and I hope that the jury sees through it.

My opinion only.

You can buy zombie bullets for a .380 ACP. The shell casing found in TB's truck, while not from a zombie bullet, was from a .380 ACP bullet. There is a picture of DM's hand holding a Walther PPK .380 ACP. The gun pictured with MS's hand also appears to be a .380 ACP and is possibly the exact same gun as in DM's picture.

Regardless of whatever BD has said, we have only heard about one type of gun being used in the murder so far, and it can shoot zombie bullets.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

In defense of TD's cross today of BD, IMO he extracted some very important information about DM, how DM was thought of by BD (sketchy) and by MS (afraid of him, being framed for TB's murder by him). To his credit, TD also put forth another scenario about the gun in the toolbox having been a surprise to MS which IMO does make sense. That gun in the toolbox and perhaps drugs too was sent as a "message" from DM to silence or mollify MS, IMO. These are details that the Crown or DM's defense would not welcome being put forward, so I think so far, while Dungey may seem to be trying to confuse, I see it as him trying to get the witness to tell the whole truth for his client's benefit, IMO. By reiterating that BD is not a snitch, but a citizen, I see TD trying to make him feel safe and comfortable about telling the court everything BD knows.

IMO, Dungey has to walk a very thin line with BD because he did get some gems from him and BD is testifying as MS's best friend (at the time) so IMO, TD does not want to completely obliterate his testimony. Perhaps, as his cross nears the close, TD will be harder on BD?

All MOO.

Bbbbut, why did MS want to take the toolbox from whoever if his gun was not in there and although he was afraid to be near this box with the dangerous content??

 

[Velma]

Jury now being recalled.
by Adam Carter 2:38 PM

 

[Londoneye]

That's because they've only been cross-examining so far. Bits and pieces. They'll get their turn to present their case when the Crown rests. It's pieces of a puzzle for them, as much as it is for the Crown. IMO

Another thing I feel but didn't really explain is the two dynamics of the attitudes of the defendants. DM is very noticeable in his mannerisms during the trial. I guess I personally feel this is not by the recommendation of his attorneys but more his entitlement. Can't strongly state more this MOO but maybe I'm wrong. Could very well be a calculated action.

 

[JuneBug67]

TD's suggestion that DM sent the murder weapon to SM to frame him makes no sense. All SM had to do was toss it and that "plan" is gone. I can't see that scenario being reality. AM dishing the "hot potato" sounds more believable to me, sans "frame"

The whole framing aspect has about as much traction in my mind as the co-worker trying to set DM up. It's just something guilty people who anticipate being formally accused blurt out preemptively when they see the hammer starting to fall.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 44s45 seconds ago
Jury back. Crown continues reexamination. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 11s11 seconds ago
Daly says Smich expressed concerns about the victims friends coming to get him. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6s6 seconds ago
Jury is back. Crown Moodie to Daly: did Smich express any concerns about the victim's friends coming to get him? Daly: yes.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 13s13 seconds ago
Back. Moodie asks specifically: did Mark Smich express concern about the victims' friends coming to get him? Daly says yes. #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 13s13 seconds ago
Did Smich express concern the victims friends were coming after him? Daly- yes! @AM900CHML #timbosma

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 13s13 seconds ago Toronto, Ontario
Back. Crown: Did Mark Smich ever express any concern about victim's friends coming to get him? Daly: Yes

 

[Velma]

"Did Mark Smich present any concerns about the victim's friends coming to get you?" Moodie asks. "Yes," Daly says.
by Adam Carter 2:40 PM

Daly is done. The next witness is Matt Hagerman.
by Adam Carter 2:42 PM

 

[SnooperDuper]

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 25s25 seconds ago
Daly done his testimony. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 53s53 seconds ago
Now, Moodie asks him about the zombie bullets--and whether Smich said 'he' or 'we' had them. Daly says he believes he said 'we.' #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 26s26 seconds ago
Daly done. Next witness up. Matt Hagerman.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 24s24 seconds ago
That's it. Daly is excused. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 51s51 seconds ago
Matt Haggerman is the next witness. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 36s36 seconds ago
Next up: Matt Haggerman. #Bosma

 

[Velma]

Hagerman is 26, and his highest level of education is a highschool diploma. He's a bartender/bar back at a pub in Toronto.
by Adam Carter 2:44 PM

He says he has known Millard most of his life -- he's a family friend.
by Adam Carter 2:44 PM

His grandmother was employed by the Millard family, he says.
by Adam Carter 2:44 PM