Bosma Murder Trial 04.12.16 - Day 33

[Claroon]

One other thing, regarding the backpack. AM testified that the last time he saw DM was May 7. That means if he was given the backpack by DM it was on or before May 7, and would be before DM realized he had any heat on him from LE.

I'm thinking something is weird about this timeline.

He lived with DM on the main floor, partied with DM. He probably, IMO, knew where the backpack and the drugs were. MS told him to get the drugs out of the house. I doubt there needed to be a hand-off.

 

[Lorelei1]

DM never asked MH to give the toolbox to MS.........MS asked AM to get the toolbox from MH.........How did MS know that MH had the tool box ?.............CN ?? (speculating)

Hmm I'm not sure that DM wanted MS to have that toolbox, oh I don't know !!

Maybe DM told MS during his 50 minute visit with him in Oakville on May 10 that he had given the toolbox to MH at 4 am that morning. He had just been questioned by police that afternoon and IMO he may have wanted to make sure they had their stories straight and all the evidence would be taken care of. He was arrested on his way home from that visit.

I'm wondering how MS knew on the evening of May 10 that DM had been arrested and that he had to get the backpack out of DM's Etobicoke house? Did DM message MS after his arrest? Had it already been on the news that night?

 

[Claroon]

Nobody in DM's posse read the news, listen the radio, or watch TV. AAAAAmaaaaazing!

In their defense, it wasn't Toronto news. I didn't even hear about it until Thurs 9th. A young man from Toronto I talked to yesterday about the case had still never heard of it.

 

[SnooperDuper]

MS probably told him about it as MS knew the area well.

MS directed AM to one location and they ended up somewhere else entirely. AM found a stash place there and let MS know the coordinates. There must be staircases like this all over.

 

[Claroon]

Michalski says he "panicked about what he had in his car." "It needed to go to Mark, and that was it."
by Adam Carter 4:26 PM

Why was he panicking about drugs in a bag? Unless there was something else in that bag that he isn't being honest about...

Because DM said LE was on the way. Caught with a significant amount of drugs could have him put away.

 

[MsSherlock]

So far nothing in anyone's testimony gives me the impression that their words will put DM away for life. So what was DM referencing in the letter to CN about showing someone how to change their words? If AM wasn't answering the same way as his original statement on the 13th of May, 2013 and during other interviews, the Crown would be all over it. Makes me think he hasn't veered too far off script... yet. We haven't been told how many times he spoke with LE in the early days after May 13th. Surveillance on Smich started the 14th. Coincidence? Don't think so.

IMO, AM is a very believable witness and has testified that DM & MS were planning on stealing a truck, that DM had differentiated between the characters of the owners of the trucks and that finally DM and MS had successfully stole a truck. IMO, even though AM was aware that they had stolen a truck, it wasn't until he saw the news while at work that he realized that the owner of the truck DM & MS stole was missing- DM wasn't charged with auto theft- he was charged with forcible confinement.

IMHO, that's a very big deviation from what AM thought had gone down. IMO, AM and MH would have been both speculating about what DM & MS had done to the owner of the truck. DM & MS had obviously taken truck theft to a different level. I think AM shows that the "mission" was very well planned and premeditated. Further, DM's demeanour on the night of the 7th sure doesn't sound like DM was besides himself with a truck theft gone bad. MOO

 

[Satchie]

So far nothing in anyone's testimony gives me the impression that their words will put DM away for life. So what was DM referencing in the letter to CN about showing someone how to change their words? If AM wasn't answering the same way as his original statement on the 13th of May, 2013 and during other interviews, the Crown would be all over it. Makes me think he hasn't veered too far off script... yet. We haven't been told how many times he spoke with LE in the early days after May 13th. Surveillance on Smich started the 14th. Coincidence? Don't think so.

Not sure I agree -eye witness of DM's stated intention to steal a truck. From subsequent actions, it is clear that the method for stealing truck was intended to be to kidnap and, if necessary kill, the owner. Eye-witness to statements from both MS and DM that they were going to do the "nice guy" test drive next. To me that's looking like pre-meditated murder.

 

[Typhoo1961]

He lived with DM on the main floor, partied with DM. He probably, IMO, knew where the backpack and the drugs were. DM told him to get the drugs out of the house. I doubt there needed to be a trade-off.

Actually MS asked him to get the drugs out of the house and bring them to him. It is in AM's testimony. DM had been arrested and could not contact any of them.

 

[Inspector_North]

So far nothing in anyone's testimony gives me the impression that their words will put DM away for life. So what was DM referencing in the letter to CN about showing someone how to change their words? If AM wasn't answering the same way as his original statement on the 13th of May, 2013 and during other interviews, the Crown would be all over it. Makes me think he hasn't veered too far off script... yet. We haven't been told how many times he spoke with LE in the early days after May 13th. Surveillance on Smich started the 14th. Coincidence? Don't think so.

The accumulated testimony and evidence tells me they are not far away. AM gave two very important pieces to information today.

1) DM told him he was planning on stealing a truck
2) That he was successful on the second test drive. Bosma's.

This is very important for linking the videos to DM and MS. Including the video of them firing up the Eliminator.

All we need now is some additional information about the gun, and the Eliminator. I believe MM and CN can add something about the gun, and CN can explain what she knows about moving the Eliminator on the 9th.

DM may have thought AM was the person LE would pressure at that time. CN was not charged with anything until almost a year later. If DM was to reach out to those he thought could send him away for life, that list is a lot longer today.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

So let's see. DM has a toolbox that everyone knows is full of drugs.

...except MH joked that it was full of guns.

He gives the "magic toolbox" to MH in the very early morning of May 10th. Contents apparently unknown. Toolbox locked.

DM is arrested early evening of May 10th. On Cawthra Rd, on his way home from Oakville. Neither of his roommates are aware of this but somehow MS finds out? No police presence at his home that evening? So AM finds out from MS that DM has been arrested. Did DM call him from jail? How did MS find out within hours of DM's arrest?

TBD.

So MS knows what DM's been arrested for because he is also involved. His first response to this news is to ask for drugs and weapons to be removed from DM's home and delivered to him? And he knows that MH has the toolbox and that the toolbox no longer contains drugs? Seems odd.

No, DM removed the weapons from the home. There was 1 lb pot left behind and MS phoned AM to tell him to get the drugs out of the house and get them to him, and also MS wanted whatever it was that MH had (did not specify).

So AM, who also knows about the magic toolbox, somehow finds wherever DM stashed all the drugs that were removed from the toolbox before it went to MH and puts them in a backpack found in the house? Wonder where he found them? Why isn't anyone asking him? And he decides to put this backpack full of drugs in the trunk of his car and then hide his car from LE should they happen to show up.

The toolbox is quite small, and 1 lb pot is quite bulky. You'd really have to stuff 'er in there IMO. I don't think the pot was originally in the toolbox. It might not fit.

So then AM contacts MH and says they have to deliver the "item" he has, that MS told him about, along with the backpack of drugs from the house, to a drop off point in Oakville for a friend of MS to pick up. Both of them, not AM alone...the person who has been in contact with MS. In fact, AM does not even use his car and instead convinces MH to drive his parents car.

MH says that AM is directing the drop off location, although AM claims that he went to the wrong place?

MS gave AM a location and AM went to the wrong place, so he called MS and updated him on where to go.

TD seems to be implying that MS was expecting a toolbox full of drugs to be dropped off. He is claiming there was a pound of weed and a gun in it? What about the backpack? The toolbox was found in MS's bedroom. Where is the backpack?

MOO

TD suggested that MH knew the toolbox had a gun in it. The drugs that were normally in the toolbox were "narcotics", and that means pills. They would fit in there. The backpack was big enough for the 1 lb weed. We haven't got that far, as to the rest.

 

[brightii]

So let's see. DM has a toolbox that everyone knows is full of drugs.

He gives the "magic toolbox" to MH in the very early morning of May 10th. Contents apparently unknown. Toolbox locked.

DM is arrested early evening of May 10th. On Cawthra Rd, on his way home from Oakville. Neither of his roommates are aware of this but somehow MS finds out? No police presence at his home that evening? So AM finds out from MS that DM has been arrested. Did DM call him from jail? How did MS find out within hours of DM's arrest?

So MS knows what DM's been arrested for because he is also involved. His first response to this news is to ask for drugs and weapons to be removed from DM's home and delivered to him? And he knows that MH has the toolbox and that the toolbox no longer contains drugs? Seems odd.

So AM, who also knows about the magic toolbox, somehow finds wherever DM stashed all the drugs that were removed from the toolbox before it went to MH and puts them in a backpack found in the house? Wonder where he found them? Why isn't anyone asking him? And he decides to put this backpack full of drugs in the trunk of his car and then hide his car from LE should they happen to show up.

So then AM contacts MH and says they have to deliver the "item" he has, that MS told him about, along with the backpack of drugs from the house, to a drop off point in Oakville for a friend of MS to pick up. Both of them, not AM alone...the person who has been in contact with MS. In fact, AM does not even use his car and instead convinces MH to drive his parents car.

MH says that AM is directing the drop off location, although AM claims that he went to the wrong place?

TD seems to be implying that MS was expecting a toolbox full of drugs to be dropped off. He is claiming there was a pound of weed and a gun in it? What about the backpack? The toolbox was found in MS's bedroom. Where is the backpack?

MOO

You are brilliant! lol I'm actually serious.Great post!

All MOO.

 

[swedie]

One other thing, regarding the backpack. AM testified that the last time he saw DM was May 7. That means if he was given the backpack by DM it was on or before May 7, and would be before DM realized he had any heat on him from LE.

I'm thinking something is weird about this timeline.

Apparently it was MS who contacted AM telling via cell phone telling him to get the drugs/backpack out of the Maplegate house as he obviously knew DM had been arrested and it was only a matter of time before LE showed up at the house with a warrant. IMO MS wanted the drugs but wasn't expecting, nor did he want the toolbox with the gun inside. MS was going to make sure he got his "payoff" for helping DM with the theft of TB's truck. MOO.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2h2 hours ago
Re: the call from Mark. "He said they got Dell and I should get all the drugs out of the house," Michalski recalls.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2h2 hours ago
Michalski says Smich didn't say what they got Dell for. "I could just imagine what it was for," he says.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2h2 hours ago
He imagined it was for stealing the truck.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2h2 hours ago
Re: Smich's direction to get the drugs out, he says he put them in a blue backpack in his trunk and then drove around the street.

 

[Typhoo1961]

MS directed AM to one location and they ended up somewhere else entirely. AM found a stash place there and let MS know the coordinates. There must be staircases like this all over.

Yes I saw that later on. Just too lazy to edit my post.

As for those staircases, I know of a few of them from when I lived in Toronto.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I am wondering if MS was "dope sick". A heroin addict who got money for his fix from DM. Could explain the dependency??

We only know about a pile of weed. That won't help someone who is dependent on opiates, at all.

 

[Claroon]

AM decided on the drop off location. Wonder how he knew about the stairwell to the electrical room as a good spot?

This is where I thought the testimony got iffy but doesn't really matter. I took it that MH said they heard about DM on the news in the car--suddenly pulled off the road, deciding to ditch the items. Where AM makes it seem as though maybe MS suggested a location--maybe one he's used before. I say it doesn't matter because if AM was texting while MH was driving, a person texting doesn't always communicate what is going on in the texts. IMO

 

[MsSherlock]

Maybe DM told MS during his 50 minute visit with him in Oakville on May 10 that he had given the toolbox to MH at 4 am that morning. He had just been questioned by police that afternoon and IMO he may have wanted to make sure they had their stories straight and all the evidence would be taken care of. He was arrested on his way home from that visit.

I'm wondering how MS knew on the evening of May 10 that DM had been arrested and that he had to get the backpack out of DM's Etobicoke house? Did DM message MS after his arrest? Had it already been on the news that night?

And that's a million dollar question- how did MS know that DM was arrested. IMO, when LE took DM down, he wouldn't have had the ability to text or call anyone. If he was allowed a phone call upon his arrest, who did he call? MB or CN? DM's arrest sure didn't come to MS in a dream and I seriously doubt that DM would have called MS. Maybe CN will shed some light on how everyone knew DM had been arrested. MOO

 

[Typhoo1961]

And that's a million dollar question- how did MS know that DM was arrested. IMO, when LE took DM down, he wouldn't have had the ability to text or call anyone. If he was allowed a phone call upon his arrest, who did he call? MB or CN? DM's arrest sure didn't come to MS in a dream and I seriously doubt that DM would have called MS. Maybe CN will shed some light on how everyone knew DM had been arrested. MOO

It is an interesting peice of the puzzle alright. I'd also like to know how MS found out DM had been arrested. It couldn't have been announced on the news by that time, could it?

 

[SnooperDuper]

And that's a million dollar question- how did MS know that DM was arrested. IMO, when LE took DM down, he wouldn't have had the ability to text or call anyone. If he was allowed a phone call upon his arrest, who did he call? MB or CN? DM's arrest sure didn't come to MS in a dream and I seriously doubt that DM would have called MS. Maybe CN will shed some light on how everyone knew DM had been arrested. MOO

I'd expect DM to call mom upon his arrest.

MB probably started calling all his friends to demand to know which one got DM into trouble

 

[Claroon]

Personally, I'm not overly concerned about the inconsistencies 'cos I find them somewhat irrelevant to the issue: that MS was deeply involved with DM all through the crime and immediately after, and that he was not being 'set up' by anyone. IMO.

It seems this testimony is more of a corroboration of MH testimony. A few viewpoints different doesn't make a diff. They are both admitting DM had drugs, they are establishing their whereabouts, they are implication MS. All as needed to convince the jury of DM & MS involvement.

 

[Typhoo1961]

MB probably started calling all his friends to demand to know which one got DM into trouble

Haha!! Good one!