Bosma Murder Trial 04.12.16 - Day 33

[ellie b]

And that's a million dollar question- how did MS know that DM was arrested. IMO, when LE took DM down, he wouldn't have had the ability to text or call anyone. If he was allowed a phone call upon his arrest, who did he call? MB or CN? DM's arrest sure didn't come to MS in a dream and I seriously doubt that DM would have called MS. Maybe CN will shed some light on how everyone knew DM had been arrested. MOO

Seems likely that it was CN eh ? She had a lot of information, I would have thought that he would contact her first....MOO

 

[Claroon]

Yep. DM had AM helping him look for diesel Dodge Rams. When you're actively helping your buddy look for a diesel Dodge Ram to steal, you're going to notice them everywhere. The Tim Bosma missing posters and messages and whatnot all prominently showed his truck. There's no way that AM didn't think there might be a connection.

He's lying, just like MH and SS before him.

It looks like many posters want to believe AM is honest, just like with MH. Unfortunately, I don't think that's the case - he's lying. All we can hope for is that the crown draws out of him the information they are looking for (and TD too!) and the jury can pick it out from between the lies.

IMO

He has a right as a witness to not incriminate himself. So he will tell the parts that are important to incriminate DM & MS, IMO.

 

[qdm]

When was news of the ambition tattoo released? As soon as that hit the airwaves everyone who knew DM would automatically think of him. And I don't buy the bunk that these witnesses never heard of the new re Bosma. The have cars, worksites where radios are on and it was wide spread. People where talking about it non stop. It's sad to see how easy it is to be under oath and to absolve yourself all it takes is a "I dunno" and a few "I don't remembers"

 

[Satchie]

Yep. DM had AM helping him look for diesel Dodge Rams. When you're actively helping your buddy look for a diesel Dodge Ram to steal, you're going to notice them everywhere. The Tim Bosma missing posters and messages and whatnot all prominently showed his truck. There's no way that AM didn't think there might be a connection.

He's lying, just like MH and SS before him.

It looks like many posters want to believe AM is honest, just like with MH. Unfortunately, I don't think that's the case - he's lying. All we can hope for is that the crown draws out of him the information they are looking for (and TD too!) and the jury can pick it out from between the lies.

IMO

I somewhat agree, but what they're 'lying' about are the thoughts and suspicions they may have had, and in the end we're not accountable for our thoughts , only our actions. I don't believe any of them participated in the crime of murder, or knew about it before hand, It's true they didn't want to be the one responsible for putting their friend in jail.

 

[redheart]

When was news of the ambition tattoo released? As soon as that hit the airwaves everyone who knew DM would automatically think of him. And I don't buy the bunk that these witnesses never heard of the new re Bosma. The have cars, worksites where radios are on and it was wide spread. People where talking about it non stop. It's sad to see how easy it is to be under oath and to absolve yourself all it takes is a "I dunno" and a few "I don't remembers"

Agreed. And it's not even the case that AM was claiming not to have heard about Tim. He says he did, but didn't make the connection to the truck he knew DM had stolen and that he (AM) had actively helped look for online. I'm not buying it.

 

[redheart]

I somewhat agree, but what they're 'lying' about are the thoughts and suspicions they may have had, and in the end we're not accountable for our thoughts , only our actions. I don't believe any of them participated in the crime of murder, or knew about it before hand, It's true they didn't want to be the one responsible for putting their friend in jail.

Well, that's certainly not the only thing they're lying about, but I hear you. It just really upsets me that no one did the right thing. It wasn't "just" a theft or "just" drugs that they didn't want to tell the truth about, it was the murder of an innocent man.

 

[Satchie]

It is an interesting peice of the puzzle alright. I'd also like to know how MS found out DM had been arrested. It couldn't have been announced on the news by that time, could it?

Wasn't on the news until next day. I think he called the lawyer and told him to call MS.

 

[swedie]

He knew he needed something to buy a lawyer.

OR that was just an excuse to make some money. Was MS hoping of making enough money to disappear with? Or perhaps he wanted the drugs for himself and pals? MS felt like he earned them and DM owed him?

It's becoming much clearer MH made numerous lies and was evasive during his testimony. AM seems to be the more truthful of the two. Things AM says he can't remember, IMO they really aren't important details. And there are a couple from the list below where he is able to recall and clarify eventually. MOO.

AM's testimony where he doesn't recall or cannot remember.
molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3h3 hours ago
Crown asks again what Millard's demeanour was like. Michalski doesn't recall.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3h3 hours ago
He doesn't recall what time their convo took place. But says he worked a normal day on Tues.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3h3 hours ago
That was their only contact that day. Crown asks if recalls anything about his or Millard's comings/goings that day. He does not.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3h3 hours ago
After reading, Michalski now recalls he was going for a run (when they had the convo) and there was no further discussion after that.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3h3 hours ago
Crown asks what Hagerman's demeanour was like. Michalski says he can't recall, they were both "uncomfortable."

 

[hellkat2]

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2013/12/dellen-millards-engagement-photos.html

I thought this was interesting information.

 

[hellkat2]

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...ived-at-home-of-wayne-and-dellen-millard.html

Thought this was also interesting. Re the living arrangements of Smich and Marlene Menese

 

[Nevy]

Hi all,

First post but been lurking since the start of trial. Some lingering questions in my mind:

All MOO

-The TB truck theft appears to have been planned and then shared with those around DM who were aware of or admittedly involved in previous thefts (AM, MH, possibly SS, LW2) prior to May 6; why did DM change his theft methodology for the TB truck (e.g. No lookouts, allow himself to be seen by two witnesses) ? To me this is interesting given that the location TB's home seemed ideal to apply his previous methods if he simply needed to steal a truck

-I get the impression that AM/MH were only willing participants in thefts (certainly not muder); it speaks volumes regarding their financial desperation at the time of their friendship with DM that they were accepting $50/$100 pay offs to assist in middle of the night thefts;

-would DM have trusted MS enough to partner up for a murder with him? Hopefully MM can complete this picture for us of what the DM/MS relationship was actually like (so far this is unclear for me)

I still find myself leaning towards a theory that suggests that someone or something went off-script with the test drive (e.g. TB resistance to being forced out of truck, either MS or DM firing upon TB against the agreed upon plan). What was planned for IT? If they backed out due to the mention if IT's military background, it suggests they anticipated a possible struggle that they might not come out on top in. Did they alter this plan for Bosma (I.e. No messing around this time, just get rid of owner)? If the plan was a point blank execution to an unsuspecting TB, it makes me wonder why that could not have been done with IT, despite his military training.

Be kind, as I said, first post!

All the above is MOO

 

[Claroon]

Maybe DM told MS during his 50 minute visit with him in Oakville on May 10 that he had given the toolbox to MH at 4 am that morning. He had just been questioned by police that afternoon and IMO he may have wanted to make sure they had their stories straight and all the evidence would be taken care of. He was arrested on his way home from that visit.

I'm wondering how MS knew on the evening of May 10 that DM had been arrested and that he had to get the backpack out of DM's Etobicoke house? Did DM message MS after his arrest? Had it already been on the news that night?

Very good catch about what the 50 min visit was about, IMO, likely to plan their strategy and story.

 

[redheart]

Hi all,

First post but been lurking since the start of trial. Some lingering questions in my mind:

All MOO

-The TB truck theft appears to have been planned and then shared with those around DM who were aware of or admittedly involved in previous thefts (AM, MH, possibly SS, LW2) prior to May 6; why did DM change his theft methodology for the TB truck (e.g. No lookouts, allow himself to be seen by two witnesses) ? To me this is interesting given that the location TB's home seemed ideal to apply his previous methods if he simply needed to steal a truck

-I get the impression that AM/MH were only willing participants in thefts (certainly not muder); it speaks volumes regarding their financial desperation at the time of their friendship with DM that they were accepting $50/$100 pay offs to assist in middle of the night thefts;

-would DM have trusted MS enough to partner up for a murder with him? Hopefully MM can complete this picture for us of what the DM/MS relationship was actually like (so far this is unclear for me)

I still find myself leaning towards a theory that suggests that someone or something went off-script with the test drive (e.g. TB resistance to being forced out of truck, either MS or DM firing upon TB against the agreed upon plan). What was planned for IT? If they backed out due to the mention if IT's military background, it suggests they anticipated a possible struggle that they might not come out on top in. Did they alter this plan for Bosma (I.e. No messing around this time, just get rid of owner)? If the plan was a point blank execution to an unsuspecting TB, it makes me wonder why that could not have been done with IT, despite his military training.

Be kind, as I said, first post!

All the above is MOO

Great first post, Nevy, and welcome!

I think we'll know more about DM and MS murderous partnership when we learn more about what happened to Laura B.

I think DM knew his other friends - SS, MH, AM et al. were sketchy enough to thieve with him, but not to go as far as murder. If MS spoke of violence, as per BD testimony, then he probably spoke of it with DM too.

 

[Abitcountry]

"should I steal it from the ******* or the nice guy"

My blood ran cold with that statement.

"steal it from the*******or the nice guy" "........not........ "steal it from an ******* or a nice guy"

The choice of words in AM's testimony clearly suggests to me that DM was already familiar with the two vendors that he was plotting to steal a truck from. How else could he know that one of the owners was "the nice guy"??
This bothers me immensely because it gives the impression that he may have thoroughly scouted his prey well in advance.....and I don't mean between 8:45 and 9:05 when he showed up in the Bosma driveway.
While it is not proof of premeditation, it certainly does suggest it.
And that has me reconsidering if I would ever again use Kijiji or any other site that require that name, telephone number or postal code be attached .....the worst being the telephone number that can be easily traced to an address using reverse phone number searches.
In addition to being personally cautious, I think buy & sell sites should be required by law or statue to better protect their users from abuses that may arise from using their sites.

 

[Satchie]

Well, that's certainly not the only thing they're lying about, but I hear you. It just really upsets me that no one did the right thing. It wasn't "just" a theft or "just" drugs that they didn't want to tell the truth about, it was the murder of an innocent man.

Yes, I agree. But did DM have any friends with strong integrity and good character? I suspect those people became ex-friends fairly quickly.

 

[Inspector_North]

Hi all,

First post but been lurking since the start of trial. Some lingering questions in my mind:

All MOO

-The TB truck theft appears to have been planned and then shared with those around DM who were aware of or admittedly involved in previous thefts (AM, MH, possibly SS, LW2) prior to May 6; why did DM change his theft methodology for the TB truck (e.g. No lookouts, allow himself to be seen by two witnesses) ? To me this is interesting given that the location TB's home seemed ideal to apply his previous methods if he simply needed to steal a truck

-I get the impression that AM/MH were only willing participants in thefts (certainly not muder); it speaks volumes regarding their financial desperation at the time of their friendship with DM that they were accepting $50/$100 pay offs to assist in middle of the night thefts;

-would DM have trusted MS enough to partner up for a murder with him? Hopefully MM can complete this picture for us of what the DM/MS relationship was actually like (so far this is unclear for me)

I still find myself leaning towards a theory that suggests that someone or something went off-script with the test drive (e.g. TB resistance to being forced out of truck, either MS or DM firing upon TB against the agreed upon plan). What was planned for IT? If they backed out due to the mention if IT's military background, it suggests they anticipated a possible struggle that they might not come out on top in. Did they alter this plan for Bosma (I.e. No messing around this time, just get rid of owner)? If the plan was a point blank execution to an unsuspecting TB, it makes me wonder why that could not have been done with IT, despite his military training.

Be kind, as I said, first post!

All the above is MOO

Welcome!

You do have a point that something unplanned happened. I just can't seem to understand the mind of a DM. On one hand I didn't think he would tell others about the theft plan if murder was part of it. On the other hand the cold response to AM about MM looking for MS was absolutely calloused. Doesn't seem like his first time dealing with this type of situation. If it was a theft that went wrong, the post actions were monstrous.

Moving ahead with the truck morphing is also troubling. DM was so bold, before and after.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

In their defense, it wasn't Toronto news. I didn't even hear about it until Thurs 9th. A young man from Toronto I talked to yesterday about the case had still never heard of it.

It was all over the T.O. news by the evening of the 7th. Unlike most of the witnesses, I remember that day clearly.

 

[Satchie]

"steal it from the*******or the nice guy" "........not........ "steal it from an ******* or a nice guy"

The choice of words in AM's testimony clearly suggests to me that DM was already familiar with the two vendors that he was plotting to steal a truck from. How else could he know that one of the owners was "the nice guy"??
This bothers me immensely because it gives the impression that he may have thoroughly scouted his prey well in advance.....and I don't mean between 8:45 and 9:05 when he showed up in the Bosma driveway.

Those words also remind me of someone writing a scenario - a fictional story or a video game.

 

[swedie]

bbm

Yet, IIRC, MH said they didn't hear of the new charges of FC until they (AM and MH) heard it on the car radio as they were driving on the way to make the drop to MS on Saturday? Is this not what MH said?

FWIW, I am not convinced by any of DM's missionaries' testimony. How can we pick the truth out from the lies or evasions?

All MOO

It's called reasonable doubt The jurors are getting the big picture, the cake, the crumbs are irrelevant kwim.

Interesting...MH "thought" there were drugs in the toolbox. When him and AM met up, no doubt AM told him he had collected all the drugs from the Maplegate house putting them in the backpack. So was MH still believing there were drugs in the toolbox?! IMO MH knew exactly what was in the toolbox because DM told him when he dropped it off. MH had to lie on the stand to cover his own hiney knowing right well he would also face charges of AATF/HTE for helping DM get rid of evidence. MOO.

 

[Nevy]

DM scouting TBs home and surrounding area is consistent with his actions surrounding other thefts; but if he was that calculating, why are so many parts of this murder appearing reactive and rushed to many of us?

I do believe based on the evidence that DM desperately wanted this truck. He also strikes me as a reasonably calculating person based on his previous crimes and one-sided relationships. TB's murder was a messy crime (phone records, DNA, witnesses); I can't see what transpired being part of any criminal's (let alone a murderer's) ideal plan.

All MOO