Bosma Murder Trial 04.12.16 - Day 33

[Abitcountry]

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2013/12/dellen-millards-engagement-photos.html

I thought this was interesting information.

Wonder if she got good money when she sold the rock you can see on her ring finger ???

 

[swedie]

There were more about a half hour ago. Glad to see this case has had so much attention from day one. Justice is coming Tim.

There are currently 120 users browsing this thread. (38 members and 82 guests)

 

[Claroon]

It is an interesting peice of the puzzle alright. I'd also like to know how MS found out DM had been arrested. It couldn't have been announced on the news by that time, could it?

(I'm frustrated as I replied to this complete with article links but by the time I was done I was logged out and lost it all. Here's the short version sans links.)

After DM's arrest, the police searched the Riverside property. I would assume that set off the chain of texts/calls as someone where would know.

It is daylight in the photos of the hoses, unless they were taken the next day and sunset was 8:30 pm so by the time MS called AM, 10-10:50, that was completed. The Maple Gate home was searched May 11.

 

[Kamille]

...except MH joked that it was full of guns.

Why would he do that when no one seems to know or believe that DM ever owned a gun?

TBD.

I'm interested in who DM contacted from jail and how that information filtered down the line to MS and not his roommates

No, DM removed the weapons from the home. There was 1 lb pot left behind and MS phoned AM to tell him to get the drugs out of the house and get them to him, and also MS wanted whatever it was that MH had (did not specify).

According to AM. Not sure if I believe everything he's selling just yet.

The toolbox is quite small, and 1 lb pot is quite bulky. You'd really have to stuff 'er in there IMO. I don't think the pot was originally in the toolbox. It might not fit.

I think it would have fit in there just fine. And would have prevented a gun from rattling around in there as well. So what drugs were in the backpack? Where did AM locate them in the house? They apparently weren't in the toolbox. How did AM know where to find them?

MS gave AM a location and AM went to the wrong place, so he called MS and updated him on where to go.

This part I can believe, even though MH seems to be fuzzy on the details of that drop off.

TD suggested that MH knew the toolbox had a gun in it. The drugs that were normally in the toolbox were "narcotics", and that means pills. They would fit in there. The backpack was big enough for the 1 lb weed. We haven't got that far, as to the rest.

Still makes no sense. MS knew there was a pound of weed at the house and some narcotics? And he knew where to tell AM to find them? They were not in the backpack...AM made the decision to put them in there according to him. And of course, no one seems to be asking him just what he put in the backpack. Why not?

I'm also curious as to whether a cut or broken padlock was found anywhere in MS's mess of a room. And of course the blue backpack. Was it found? And why did Pillay try to put a backpack in MS's possession at the time of the murder? Was that just a coincidence?

MOO

 

[Satchie]

why did DM change his theft methodology for the TB truck (e.g. No lookouts, allow himself to be seen by two witnesses) ? To me this is interesting given that the location TB's home seemed ideal to apply his previous methods if he simply needed to steal a truck

AM said he'd been looking on Kijiji for those trucks with DM back in December 2012. I wonder whether they'd tried to steal one and it didn't work? There's lots of anti-theft elements built in.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

So let's see. DM has a toolbox that everyone knows is full of drugs.

He gives the "magic toolbox" to MH in the very early morning of May 10th. Contents apparently unknown. Toolbox locked.

DM is arrested early evening of May 10th. On Cawthra Rd, on his way home from Oakville. Neither of his roommates are aware of this but somehow MS finds out? No police presence at his home that evening? So AM finds out from MS that DM has been arrested. Did DM call him from jail? How did MS find out within hours of DM's arrest?
MOO

 

[brightii]

It was all over the T.O. news by the evening of the 7th. Unlike most of the witnesses, I remember that day clearly.

I'm in TO as well and I heard about the crime quickly, although my adult children and friends did not. I've followed along from the beginning although there are many people I know of who haven't.

Still, in context of DM sharing with AM his plan to steal the same kind of truck as TB's, one that AM admittedly had seen an ad for on DM's computer and had discussed it with him, on the very weekend prior to TB's truck theft on the Monday, I find it highly implausible that AM was oblivious to the MSM news about the incident. I find it even more unlikely that AM did not catch on to make any association with TB's truck theft and DM's plan the instant he saw the so-called FB post, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[Nevy]

is that both JV and AM now who both happened to see kijiji ads for this type of truck on DM's computer?

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

So let's see. DM has a toolbox that everyone knows is full of drugs.

He gives the "magic toolbox" to MH in the very early morning of May 10th. Contents apparently unknown. Toolbox locked.

DM is arrested early evening of May 10th. On Cawthra Rd, on his way home from Oakville. Neither of his roommates are aware of this but somehow MS finds out? No police presence at his home that evening? So AM finds out from MS that DM has been arrested. Did DM call him from jail? How did MS find out within hours of DM's arrest?

MOO

Maybe DM was talking to MS on his cell phone when he pulled over and arrested on Cawthra. Doubt is, but always a possibility. I can't remember what the cell phone records may have shown for that day.

 

[brightii]

It's called reasonable doubt

Thank you, swedie.

Signed,

The alien among us.

:alien3:

 

[SnooperDuper]

Why would he do that when no one seems to know or believe that DM ever owned a gun?

That's a very good question.

I think it would have fit in there just fine. And would have prevented a gun from rattling around in there as well. So what drugs were in the backpack? Where did AM locate them in the house? They apparently weren't in the toolbox. How did AM know where to find them?

No, you forget there is a removable tool tray with handle that takes up half the box when the tray is inside and the box is closed. It's a small toolbox.

AM put the drugs in the backpack: they weren't normally stored there.

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 4h4 hours ago
Re: Smich's direction to get the drugs out, he says he put them in a blue backpack in his trunk and then drove around the street. #Bosma

Still makes no sense. MS knew there was a pound of weed at the house and some narcotics? And he knew where to tell AM to find them? They were not in the backpack...AM made the decision to put them in there according to him. And of course, no one seems to be asking him just what he put in the backpack. Why not?
I'm also curious as to whether a cut or broken padlock was found anywhere in MS's mess of a room. And of course the blue backpack. Was it found? And why did Pillay try to put a backpack in MS's possession at the time of the murder? Was that just a coincidence?

MOO

MH testified that he knew the toolbox as storage for "narcotics". When AM cleaned the house of drugs though, he only scooped up 1 lb weed into the backpack. As far as we know so far.

 

[chaines]

"steal it from the*******or the nice guy" "........not........ "steal it from an ******* or a nice guy"

The choice of words in AM's testimony clearly suggests to me that DM was already familiar with the two vendors that he was plotting to steal a truck from. How else could he know that one of the owners was "the nice guy"??
This bothers me immensely because it gives the impression that he may have thoroughly scouted his prey well in advance.....and I don't mean between 8:45 and 9:05 when he showed up in the Bosma driveway.
While it is not proof of premeditation, it certainly does suggest it.
And that has me reconsidering if I would ever again use Kijiji or any other site that require that name, telephone number or postal code be attached .....the worst being the telephone number that can be easily traced to an address using reverse phone number searches.
In addition to being personally cautious, I think buy & sell sites should be required by law or statue to better protect their users from abuses that may arise from using their sites.

FYI there are ways to protect your identity when using sites like kijiji... On kijiji you only need to enter an email address - a phone number and name are NOT required. Use an email that is NOT your name ie abitcountry123@whatever.com
for postal code DO NOT ENTER YOUR OWN. I always just enter the postal code of the Main post office of my city. And I always meet the person in a public place, never at my own home.

 

[swedie]

Personally, I'm not overly concerned about the inconsistencies 'cos I find them somewhat irrelevant to the issue: that MS was deeply involved with DM all through the crime and immediately after, and that he was not being 'set up' by anyone. IMO.

I agree, it's clear who was with DM that night when TB was murdered. I think the big questions are;
1) Was MS aware there was a gun brought along for the test drive and there was intent to also murder TB?
2) Was it MS's or DM's gun used to shoot TB?
3) Was MS in the truck when TB was shot?
4) Who was the actual murderer?
5) Did MS believe he was only going to help DM steal TB's truck?
ALL MOO.

 

[Kamille]

I somewhat agree, but what they're 'lying' about are the thoughts and suspicions they may have had, and in the end we're not accountable for our thoughts , only our actions. I don't believe any of them participated in the crime of murder, or knew about it before hand, It's true they didn't want to be the one responsible for putting their friend in jail.

I'm just a little curious about some of the things that AM said. Like he was at the house 3 to 4 times a week hanging with DM prior to moving in. And yet during this week he claimed not to have seen him at all for a few days or hung out with him and spoken with him about anything really for at least a week.

The Maplegate neighbour claimed that DM was in his driveway that week and doing "yard work" with a few guys. Who were they? Where was AM at this time? Because according to him, he never saw or really even spoke to DM that week.

I think he is lying about this and knows a lot more than he's saying. DM was home quite a bit that week. He was home early on the evening of the 8th and I assume this is the night the neighbour saw him and some other guys in the driveway. Did some washing at some point apparently, maybe the same night. He was up early on the morning of the 9th and making phone calls. RB saw him and CN at home on the evening of the 9th. And yet AM did not see him or speak to him at all?

MOO

 

[Claroon]

Agreed. And it's not even the case that AM was claiming not to have heard about Tim. He says he did, but didn't make the connection to the truck he knew DM had stolen and that he (AM) had actively helped look for online. I'm not buying it.

One must follow the chain of events and evidence closely. AM pointed out what he knew, that it was a missing person's case. IMO I only thought it was about a stolen truck too. At that time no-one knew TB was murdered. We weren't looking for him we were looking for a stolen truck. Even then, I only heard about it May 9th from a Facebook friend. I'm in Waterloo region and, even then, didn't think it affected anyone in our area. AM did say he saw it on the TV at work.

As for when the phone was found and the ambition tattoo released:
"The discovery of the cellphone came on May 9, 2013, when Bosma was the focus of an intense search..." http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...-bosmas-cellphone-key-moments-in-murder-probe

Only after they found the phone on the 9th did they trace the burner and find IT. It was IT that remarked about the tattoo that began that search. I'm not sure if the news reported it 9th or 10th.They had already been to his hangar the 10th so....

I infer from this that police already had his tattoo on record. "Investigators searched for tips on people who had such a tattoo. Police sources in Toronto and Peel both came back with the same name: Dellen Millard, court heard."

 

[Georgeo]

Ridiculous. They should have hammered this all out on Friday.

Totally ridiculous. Like they are using every excuse to delay and prolong the trial!

 

[SnooperDuper]

I'm just a little curious about some of the things that AM said. Like he was at the house 3 to 4 times a week hanging with DM prior to moving in. And yet during this week he claimed not to have seen him at all for a few days or hung out with him and spoken with him about anything really for at least a week.

The Maplegate neighbour claimed that DM was in his driveway that week and doing "yard work" with a few guys. Who were they? Where was AM at this time? Because according to him, he never saw or really even spoke to DM that week.

I think he is lying about this and knows a lot more than he's saying. DM was home quite a bit that week. He was home early on the evening of the 8th and I assume this is the night the neighbour saw him and some other guys in the driveway. Did some washing at some point apparently, maybe the same night. He was up early on the morning of the 9th and making phone calls. RB saw him and CN at home on the evening of the 9th. And yet AM did not see him or speak to him at all?

MOO

I don't think the neighbour was sure of the date...AM had a job and a life and wasn't around a lot of the time; DM was apparently a very busy guy, awake and on the go for the last 36+ hours before his arrest and subsequent 24-hour interrogation, and AM, after all, is not DM's mother. I can totally imagine AM not running across DM ever again before his arrest, and being left wondering what the heck went on. Sure, DM perhaps joked that he was going to steal a truck. How real was that? Did AM really know a lot? Enough to merit going to LE, on what could have been seen as a joke?

 

[Inspector_North]

AM said he'd been looking on Kijiji for those trucks with DM back in December 2012. I wonder whether they'd tried to steal one and it didn't work? There's lots of anti-theft elements built in.

Since the browser history was analyzed by police, there should have been traces of other vehicles that met DM's need for the Mexico tow. Not sure other failed attempts will help prove premeditated murder at this point in the trial. We know he is a thief that plans, and pays minions to help.

As for needing lookouts for stealing a truck, I can't see why. The lookouts were mainly for watching out for approaching vehicles while they loaded onto a trailer. The truck was already on wheels.

If you look into vehicle theft, they are much different than stealing something that needs to be man handled onto a trailer.

 

[mimimic]

I have no idea what the missing word is. I think in case of testimony the words should be allowed here.

How did DM know who was a nice guy and who was a ******* at that point?

edit: nevermind got the *advertiser censored**hole off the 6:00 news

likely answered a few times already ...but i think the point of this comment is not the foul language bit- it is the question of how at THAT point did he form and opinion of nice guy vs. ** guy

 

[Gibson67]

Apparently it was MS who contacted AM telling via cell phone telling him to get the drugs/backpack out of the Maplegate house as he obviously knew DM had been arrested and it was only a matter of time before LE showed up at the house with a warrant. IMO MS wanted the drugs but wasn't expecting, nor did he want the toolbox with the gun inside. MS was going to make sure he got his "payoff" for helping DM with the theft of TB's truck. MOO.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2h2 hours ago
Re: the call from Mark. "He said they got Dell and I should get all the drugs out of the house," Michalski recalls.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2h2 hours ago
Michalski says Smich didn't say what they got Dell for. "I could just imagine what it was for," he says.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2h2 hours ago
He imagined it was for stealing the truck.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2h2 hours ago
Re: Smich's direction to get the drugs out, he says he put them in a blue backpack in his trunk and then drove around the street.

you missed this part..he wanted the toolbox too.

Apr 12 2016 4:22 PM"I put them into a blue Under Armour backback and put them in my car and drove around the street," Michalski says about the drugs. Smich contacted him again, he said: "He wanted me to meet up with Hagerman, and he wanted whatever I had and Hagerman had brought to him the next day."

Apr 12 2016 4:32 PMIn one of those texts, Michalski says "it's about the thing someone gave you." He says that he knew through Smich that Hagerman had a toolbox that Millard had given him.

Apr 12 2016 4:34 PMMichalski says the purpose of meeting Hagerman was to bring the toolbox and the backpack with the drugs to Smich.