Bosma Murder Trial 04.12.16 - Day 33

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It's called reasonable doubt ;) The jurors are getting the big picture, the cake, the crumbs are irrelevant kwim.

Interesting...MH "thought" there were drugs in the toolbox. When him and AM met up, no doubt AM told him he had collected all the drugs from the Maplegate house putting them in the backpack. So was MH still believing there were drugs in the toolbox?! ;) IMO MH knew exactly what was in the toolbox because DM told him when he dropped it off. MH had to lie on the stand to cover his own hiney knowing right well he would also face charges of AATF/HTE for helping DM get rid of evidence. MOO.

I don't think MH would be facing charges if he fessed up but his dad might send him off to live under the Gardener if he finds out his son hid guns in his house.
 
To me what AM has said so far that could put DM away for life is that DM did look at the kijiji ad, AM was with him when he did it. He always intended to steal a truck, he just didn't know which of the two men to take it from. He said after TB went missing that "he got the truck". DM took TB out in the truck and TB never was seen again. If he took the truck but did nothing to TB in the process and kicked him out of the truck somewhere alive, why is his blood in the truck and why wouldn't he call police right away?!

Even if he did no wrong other than stealing the truck (which by the way I don't believe for a millisecond), go to the police. I would rather go down for grand theft auto than murder.

So to me, this removes basically any reasonable doubt when it comes to DM in this trial.

All MOO.

Well said. I agree. DM admitted to stealing the truck, and as you've said, LE found it with blood in it that could not be excluded from being TB's blood.
 
I don't think MH would be facing charges if he fessed up but his dad might send him off to live under the Gardener if he finds out his son hid guns in his house.

Now I get it - I was was wondering what that meant - basement apartment below the hired help at his Mom's place?
 
Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 9m9 minutes ago
The #Bosma family was visibly upset in court today.
 
Not the way my brain works.....I can recall in vivid detail the smallest of things connected with key memories.....I can recall conversations word for word of those same key memories....doesn't matter joyous sad, embarrassing , triumphant, fearful etc
but then I avoid lying to myself and others. When you are always changing the story in your head and veering from the truth then absolutely stress, tension or pressure make recall difficult....

I don't think that I am unique either......

You may not be that unique but if your memory is that crisp and accurate I do think you'd be the exception and not the rule. I've been following "true crime" cases since I was about 11 years old (so, over 40 years) and one of the things that is a pretty much globally agreed on issue in criminal cases, is that eye witness testimony is incredibly unreliable, for a wide variety of reasons (as ellie b pointed out). Even among those who are not prone to lying to themselves and others, how the brain processes things in a high tension/traumatic moment may not always be how things actually happened. I don't have any links handy but I've read numerous studies over the years on this especially in the area of child abuse (adult survivors primarily). It's really a rather fascinating field of study.

That said, I'm not at all surprised or think it's any kind of CYA when some of these witnesses from DM's circle say things like "I can't remember" or "I don't know". While they may in fact be in CYA mode, it's rather reasonable to assume they really can't remember certain details about specific days or conversations, or what kind of "mood" someone was in on a certain day 3 years ago. This is pretty common for most people. However, once you toss in drugs use, alcohol use, the fact that you've been involved with crimes with the accused in the past, and the fact you just learned he killed a man and stole his truck, the trauma (emotional - on the brain) of the events surrounding those few days in May of 2013 would really do a number on your memory. Which is really good then, that we have statements given at the time, to help these guys remember what they said then, compared to what they recall now.

moo.
 
Apparently MS was sick the night they did a test drive with Igor. Could that have anything to do with it ?

Total speculation, but I can imagine that 'sick' meant 'chickened out' and DM was shaming him about it in front of AM.
 
Why, why, why do people still say this? You do not need a physical phone to trace calls. By 2 a.m. on May 7 they had all the phone info for the relevant hours. The Hamilton cops were at Igor's workplace on Tuesday.

<modsnip> Maybe we do because we--the laity--the public--base our info on news reports not what LE is doing behind the scenes that we aren't privy too. That they had permission to trace the phone only came out in the trial (I suppose, I wasn't following the case then). . I think if we look at when the public was told about Igor in the news it was probably the 9th or 10th. What are we supposed to believe when we're led to believe a certain chain of events LE makes public.

If on the 7th I'd told people police had traced the calls there would probably be a privacy act uproar.
 
Now I get it - I was was wondering what that meant - basement apartment below the hired help at his Mom's place?

I think DM was referring to the Gardiner (misspelled), which is an elevated expressway that runs through downtown Toronto.
 
I thought it was DM's misspelling of Gardiner (Expressway) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardiner_Expressway

"live under the Gardiner"

There are always rummies there to wash your windows and take your change...

Yes, it was the mispelling threw me off (I haven't lived in TO for many years), until I read it phonetically I was struggling to interpret what it meant to "live under the guy who does the gardening."
 
Why, why, why do people still say this? You do not need a physical phone to trace calls. By 2 a.m. on May 7 they had all the phone info for the relevant hours. The Hamilton cops were at Igor's workplace on Tuesday.

In fact you don't always need the physical phone to retrieve text messages. Like I said before, carriers have SMS retention policies. The messages are encrypted in transit, but the carrier has the key.

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-07/fyi-how-can-i-stop-my-wireless-carrier-spying-me
 
I'd expect DM to call mom upon his arrest.

MB probably started calling all his friends to demand to know which one got DM into trouble ;)

I was thinking DM would call CN, to tell her to get the message to MS and also for CN to call MB. One call and kill 2 birds with one stone.
 
<modsnip> Maybe we do because we--the laity--the public--base our info on news reports not what LE is doing behind the scenes that we aren't privy too. That they had permission to trace the phone only came out in the trial (I suppose, I wasn't following the case then). . I think if we look at when the public was told about Igor in the news it was probably the 9th or 10th. What are we supposed to believe when we're led to believe a certain chain of events LE makes public.

If on the 7th I'd told people police had traced the calls there would probably be a privacy act uproar.[/QUOTE]

There was mention at the beginning of the trial that LE was able to get access to phone records quickly because of the fact that a man was missing and his life was in danger. It was the same for getting access to the contents of the trailer.
 
All excellent questions and I'm going to piggy back in bold:

So let's see. DM has a toolbox that everyone knows is full of drugs.

He gives the "magic toolbox" to MH in the very early morning of May 10th. Contents apparently unknown. Toolbox locked.

DM is arrested early evening of May 10th. On Cawthra Rd, on his way home from Oakville. Neither of his roommates are aware of this but somehow MS finds out? No police presence at his home that evening? So AM finds out from MS that DM has been arrested. Did DM call him from jail? How did MS find out within hours of DM's arrest? I've wondered the exact same thing.

So MS knows what DM's been arrested for because he is also involved. His first response to this news is to ask for drugs and weapons to be removed from DM's home and delivered to him? And he knows that MH has the toolbox and that the toolbox no longer contains drugs? Seems odd. It doesn't seem odd, it seems insane. Your buddy just gets nailed by the police and you want incriminating evidence YOUR possession. What?? What kind of a lunatic does that?

So AM, who also knows about the magic toolbox, somehow finds wherever DM stashed all the drugs that were removed from the toolbox before it went to MH and puts them in a backpack found in the house? Wonder where he found them? Why isn't anyone asking him? And he decides to put this backpack full of drugs in the trunk of his car and then hide his car from LE should they happen to show up. And I'd add: where were the drugs? why were they not already in the magic tool box where they were normally kept? what kind of drugs are we actually referring to here? why did the back pack smell like pot?

So then AM contacts MH and says they have to deliver the "item" he has, that MS told him about, along with the backpack of drugs from the house, to a drop off point in Oakville for a friend of MS to pick up. Both of them, not AM alone...the person who has been in contact with MS. In fact, AM does not even use his car and instead convinces MH to drive his parents car. Why not just go to MH's place, collect the toolbox and drop them both off with MS? Why did MH have to come along?

MH says that AM is directing the drop off location, although AM claims that he went to the wrong place? I think what happened there is that they (MS and AM) had a spot planned, and when MH heard the news on the radio he freaked out, changed the plan and said something like "nope, we're dumping them right here". At which point AM texted either MS or Arthur and told them where the new spot was. Anyway that's the way I read it, and it made sense.

TD seems to be implying that MS was expecting a toolbox full of drugs to be dropped off. He is claiming there was a pound of weed and a gun in it? What about the backpack? The toolbox was found in MS's bedroom. Where is the backpack? Indeed, where is the backpack, what was actually in it, and if there were party drugs actually in it, where did they go?

MOO
 
And that's a million dollar question- how did MS know that DM was arrested. IMO, when LE took DM down, he wouldn't have had the ability to text or call anyone. If he was allowed a phone call upon his arrest, who did he call? MB or CN? DM's arrest sure didn't come to MS in a dream and I seriously doubt that DM would have called MS. Maybe CN will shed some light on how everyone knew DM had been arrested. MOO

Maybe if she was his one phone call and she subsequently tipped others off to get rid of and hide evidence, this plays into her charges?
 
And Igor did say that there was a change in temperature in the truck when he said that he had been in the army. I think they did this first test drive to practice for the second one with the "nice guy." It really shows what a psychopath DM is and how he had MS following him around to help him with his dirty work. DM knew that the others wouldn't go along with armed robbery so he didn't even bother asking them; however, MS being the gangster he thought he was living at his mom's house was happy to accompany him. I can't even imagine the Bosma's sitting through this and now knowing that Tim was a marked man before he even met them on that fateful night.
 
Where does the one pound of weed info come from? How was this even verified if no one knew what was in the bag? JMO
 
There was mention at the beginning of the trial that LE was able to get access to phone records quickly because of the fact that a man was missing and his life was in danger. It was the same for getting access to the contents of the trailer.

From day 5

Adam Carter &#8207;@AdamCarterCBC 17s17 seconds ago
Iaccio has been sworn in as an expert in cell communications. He got a call from police on May 7 after #TimBosma vanished. #HamOnt #Bosma

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 30s30 seconds ago
There were 2 production orders by HPS in this case for 2 numbers--one was the Lucas Bate phone (the phone that called #Bosma on May 6)

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Also a phone registered to Brendan Daily. Spelling is unclear.

Mark Carcasole &#8207;@MarkCarcGlobal 1m1 minute ago
289 number belonged to a "Brendan Daly." #MillardSmich

Mark Carcasole &#8207;@MarkCarcGlobal 2m2 minutes ago
Iaccio says in the particular case, @HamiltonPolice made 2 production orders. 1 for "Bate" records & 1 for records of a 289
number. #Millard

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont 56s56 seconds ago
May 7 he got call at home at 2 am from @HamiltonPolice asking for help for a "humanitarian" request.

Mark Carcasole &#8207;@MarkCarcGlobal 1m1 minute ago
Iaccio received emergency call for request late at night while at home in bed. Logged on to network from home. #MillardSmich

Adam Carter
Feb 8 2016 2:45 PM
The court is seeing entry records as to when police contacted Iaccio looking for information.

Adam Carter
Feb 8 2016 2:42 PM
Police contacted Iaccio looking for information on a particular number on May 7, after Bosma disappeared. They were claiming there was an "imminent threat to life" at the time.

Lisa Hepfner &#8207;@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
Iaccio got a call at 2am on May 7, 2013, from #HamOnt police wanting info on the phone that called #TimBosma for test drive

Mark Carcasole &#8207;@MarkCarcGlobal 2m2 minutes ago
Humanitarian request. As we learned last week, an emergency situation. Police can get info without court ordered a life is in danger. #Bosma
 
Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont 9m9 minutes ago
The #Bosma family was visibly upset in court today.

My heart breaks daily for the Bosma family as we learn more and more.

Today hearing that even DM referred to TB as "the nice guy" just drives home how insanely evil he must be. He even knew he was a nice guy and had no problem just murdering him so he could get the truck he wanted.

Sickening and so heart breaking.

MOO.
 
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