Bosma Murder Trial 04.12.16 - Day 33

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Well, if you throw in a box or two of ammo, a couple illegal hand guns, perhaps a few bogus cell phones, you might be getting up there in weight. What I find quite curious is, none of this stuff has physically made it into evidence. Where did it all go? Someone disposed of it. The only thing we know about thus far is that MS buried a gun in the forest.

Something else that just doesn't make sense IMO, why would DM would leave a bunch of drugs at the Maplegate house (AM gathered up and put in the backpack) but yet deliver a toolbox full of drugs to MH? IMO I believe there where two "2" guns in that toolbox along with other items I mentioned above. If you look at images of that toolbox, it has an accommodation for a small lock...a very small lock which would be nothing for these goons to pick or cut off or snip the plastic surrounding it (IF DM didn't give MH the key). Curiosity would have gotten the best of them if they didn't know for certain what was in that toolbox. AM went to MH house so they could do just that...remove the lock, my speculation of course. If this was the case, I highly doubt we will get the truth from AM if asked. He is not going to put himself in that position of knowing what was in that toolbox and him and MH disposed of incriminating evidence. ALL MOO.
Thanks Swedie! I never thought of ammo- that makes sense. We haven't heard of any ammo being found in any of the searches and I doubt DM had a gun or guns without a nice supply of ammo for them. If DM was staying at the hangar for any length of time, I'm sure he'd he would have the gun(s) and ammo together. Toss in the drugs at the hangar and IMO, you can call it a 4-5 lb day. MOO
 
I have a sneaky feeling that AM is going to be crucified on the stand when TD crosses him. I am working on a timeline thing, and it's not working out so far.. will post when I have it.
The cross should be interesting. IMO, we may very well see shorter more gentler crosses than we saw with MH. From the tweets and news reports, it doesn't appear that AM is anywhere close to the wounded bird that MH was- he appears to be composed and somewhat confident. AM has also provided some very crucial evidence against DM & AM- together and individually. IMO, he's a nightmare witness for the D. DM told AM he was stealing a black dodge pickup- "nice guy or a-hole" comment, then next day AM is there for conversation with DM & AM when they come back from the IT test drive- then AM see's a "normal" DM on the Tuesday night and THEN, AM gets calls and texts from MS on the 10th & 11th- to let him know DM had been arrested, that MH had something DM had given him and to make arrangements to get everything off of him and MH.

So how does either side rip AM apart without damage to their own client? IMO, they would want AM off the stand asap. Sure, Dungey can try the same "you're trying to protect DM line- with the risk of a sincere, no tears "no way" but IMO, AM's actions of gathering up the drugs at Maple Gate were at MS's request- he wasn't doing something at DM's request; it was at the request of Dungey's client. On the other hand, P & S have this guy up there that saw and spoke with their client immediately before and after the murder. He has stated that DM wasn't home on the Monday night and MM called him at 6 am Tuesday morning indicating DM & MS were still together. IMO, we may be surprised at how short the D teams are with AM. I'm thinking that it was AM's statement that DM was referring to in his letter to CN- the one he was desperate to get changed. MOO
 
Tim Bosma Murder Trial: The revelations of Andrew Michalski | EXHIBIT # 129 and #130

[video=youtube;tRxCc6vXz3M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRxCc6vXz3M&list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA&index=1[/video]
DM's text to AM a month before about having to make 100K a month and he'll be out of the hole- sounds like bopping WM wasn't quite the payout DM thought it would be. It's also interesting that AM was game for assisting DM to make money. Maybe we'll hear more today about what the game plan was for DM's income stream. The texts about MM's phone call to AM looking for MS came shortly before DM & MS picked up MM at her apartment- then by 8:12, DM is saying MM is with MS. Wonder if he means they dropped them off somewhere or if they were together in the Yukon with him.
 
Yesterday I was astonished that DM told AM already on the 3rd December 2012 he would lay off all his employees (except SS). Wayne died on 29th November. Pretty early to know how to solve the hangar problem. IF there were so huge debts then I could understand a suicide, especially because Wayne must have noticed how minimal DM's interest in the company was. BUT I don't trust DM anymore so a murder isn't unimaginable.
 
re: knowing about toolbox Someone posted a long while back that it was likely during that 50 minute conversation that day of arrest.
How did MS discover that DM had been arrested on May 10th?

How did MS know that DM had given a toolbox to MH (at 4am on the day DM was later arrested) which was supposedly supposed to be given to MS?
 
Or perhaps DM called DP and he contacted MB? I doubt that MB would call MS or even have his phone number. I'm thinking it was DP-MB(DM has been arrested)-MB-CN( What's going on!! Dell is in jail!!) -CN-MS(there's trouble- DM is in jail)-MS-AM( Dell is in jail- clear his house of drugs and get the thing MH has- bring it all to me) AM-MH (Dell is in jail, there's a missing guy and MS wants this stuff asap) I think that's how the phone calls went down. MOO

I think that once MM takes the stand, we will hear how she found out about DM's arrest, That will most likely tell us how MS found out, and when.

MOO
 
You may not be that unique but if your memory is that crisp and accurate I do think you'd be the exception and not the rule. I've been following "true crime" cases since I was about 11 years old (so, over 40 years) and one of the things that is a pretty much globally agreed on issue in criminal cases, is that eye witness testimony is incredibly unreliable, for a wide variety of reasons (as ellie b pointed out). Even among those who are not prone to lying to themselves and others, how the brain processes things in a high tension/traumatic moment may not always be how things actually happened. I don't have any links handy but I've read numerous studies over the years on this especially in the area of child abuse (adult survivors primarily). It's really a rather fascinating field of study.

That said, I'm not at all surprised or think it's any kind of CYA when some of these witnesses from DM's circle say things like "I can't remember" or "I don't know". While they may in fact be in CYA mode, it's rather reasonable to assume they really can't remember certain details about specific days or conversations, or what kind of "mood" someone was in on a certain day 3 years ago. This is pretty common for most people. However, once you toss in drugs use, alcohol use, the fact that you've been involved with crimes with the accused in the past, and the fact you just learned he killed a man and stole his truck, the trauma (emotional - on the brain) of the events surrounding those few days in May of 2013 would really do a number on your memory. Which is really good then, that we have statements given at the time, to help these guys remember what they said then, compared to what they recall now.

moo.

IMO I'm not really sure about this. I believe most people WOULD remember. Think about it this way: if a few days after seeing my buddy I found out he was charged with murder I would remember exactly his demeanour the last I saw him. Ie, holy crap he was so calm! Or holy crap no wonder he was freaking out! I think my last interaction with him would haunt me daily, especially knowing that I would likely end up in court over it. JMO of course.
 
DM's text to AM a month before about having to make 100K a month and he'll be out of the hole- sounds like bopping WM wasn't quite the payout DM thought it would be. It's also interesting that AM was game for assisting DM to make money. Maybe we'll hear more today about what the game plan was for DM's income stream. The texts about MM's phone call to AM looking for MS came shortly before DM & MS picked up MM at her apartment- then by 8:12, DM is saying MM is with MS. Wonder if he means they dropped them off somewhere or if they were together in the Yukon with him.

The communication from MM to AM was said by AM to be from around 6am, but AM didn't txt DM until just before 8am. Then by the time DM replied, it was after 8am and DM had already picked up MM. (See times of txts on the video posted just above by Matou). It almost sounds like MS and MM were gone from the Yukon by then, otherwise one might assume DM would say something more like, 'She's with us now'? I guess MM will enlighten us when she finally takes the stand - from memory, I believe the Crown has already said that she will tell us more about where she was going that morning when she gives her testimony.
 
Wow, that is really telling about how little respect DM had for his father. Sounds like he regularly let various lowlifes stay there, not even privately away from WM, and WM didn't want them there... DM is a real piece of work.
 
It's interesting because MH testified that AM said DM would have wanted MS to have the toolbox, not that MS had called asking for it.

"Hagerman told the court that Michalski said Millard would have wanted the toolbox and backpack to go to Smich."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/bosma-matt-hagerman-snivelling-1.3525024

Trying to get caught up (daughter's in the hospital having a baby this morning!) but the discrepancy in testimony between AM and MH seems more like a misunderstanding (between them) than anything else.

I *think* what happened was, MH didn't realize it wasn't DM that wanted the toolbox and back pack delivered to MS, but probably just assumed that to be the case since AM was the one in communication with MS, and that's where he was telling him these things needed to go. Anyway, that's the only thing that makes sense to me right now, but I could be totally missing something.
 
Yesterday I was astonished that DM told AM already on the 3rd December 2012 he would lay off all his employees (except SS). Wayne died on 29th November. Pretty early to know how to solve the hangar problem. IF there were so huge debts then I could understand a suicide, especially because Wayne must have noticed how minimal DM's interest in the company was. BUT I don't trust DM anymore so a murder isn't unimaginable.
When you factor in WM died on Nov 29th- a Friday and DM was shutting the works down on Tuesday- it does make your head shake!!! DM was moving to shut down an operation that employed 13 people, had just obtained their MRO license plus had just secured a 3.7Million dollar Line of Credit within 2 business days of WM's untimely death?? That guy puts new meaning to "grieving son". MOO
 
I'm just a little curious about some of the things that AM said. Like he was at the house 3 to 4 times a week hanging with DM prior to moving in. And yet during this week he claimed not to have seen him at all for a few days or hung out with him and spoken with him about anything really for at least a week.

The Maplegate neighbour claimed that DM was in his driveway that week and doing "yard work" with a few guys. Who were they? Where was AM at this time? Because according to him, he never saw or really even spoke to DM that week.
I think he is lying about this and knows a lot more than he's saying. DM was home quite a bit that week. He was home early on the evening of the 8th and I assume this is the night the neighbour saw him and some other guys in the driveway. Did some washing at some point apparently, maybe the same night. He was up early on the morning of the 9th and making phone calls. RB saw him and CN at home on the evening of the 9th. And yet AM did not see him or speak to him at all?

MOO

- According to testimony from AM yesterday, he was employed at the time as a plumber, I presume hours of work would be 7am - 4pm then the drive home, possible DM was at the home when AM was at work.

did a quick review of the timeline spreadsheet...
- May 7th @ 8:44pm Yukon arrived at hanger, 11:40pm Yukon leaves hanger
- May 8th DM's phone was pinging at hanger @ 5:56pm, then later in the range of Halton Hills, Etobicoke area. Neighbor at farm testified that there were lights seen at the farm around 11-11:30
- May 9th DM phone @ 5:49pm ping at farm, then hanger, Oakville, Etobicoke and then Kleinburg

IMO, these ping times leave a high probability that AM may not have seen DM on these dates or if he did, a brief period of time. DM had a lot of "work" to do in a very short period of time.
 
It seems DM was reluctant to let go of any of his toys to help get himself out of the hole. AM has helped make sense out of this madness. DM wanted a diesel truck, and the only way to get it was to steal it. Even if it meant making a 'nice guy' gone, gone, gone.

We have still not heard anything around selling things obtained on missions. We have also heard that the hanger was not bringing in enough money to be self sustainable. DM has also said that his real estate activity was just breaking even.

That only leaves drug dealing and asset leveraging as his main living income. Oh! and the money he was getting from rent.

I am sure the hole was growing fast, and DM had little time to waste on unproductive activity. It is not hard to imagine his 'needful ways' getting violent.

As for Mark. Being stupid and joining a terrorist group, doesn't allow you to use stupid as a get out of jail excuse. Same kind of thing with Mark going on, the test drive, being part of a murder, and burning the body afterwards. MS also went out of his way to dispose of key evidence.

MOO
 
In fairness for MH's belief of what was in the toolbox, I think we may have to think that perhaps DM was a big time supplier- a kilo of this, a good chunk of that, and a nice supply of ecstasy, oxy's and crack. When I think of a tool box, I think of the kind that has those trays that keep things organized. According to MH's testimony, the tool box was 4-5 lbs and nothing seemed to be moving around in it. Maybe someone can figure out how much a tool box like that would weigh and how much a gun or two would weigh.

<rsbm>

If you can find the same toolbox on Walmart or Canadian Tire, you could check the shipping weight. A 16" Stanley toolbox weighs 3 lb and a 24" one 8 lb according to WM, so it had to be a smaller model.
 
IMO I'm not really sure about this. I believe most people WOULD remember. Think about it this way: if a few days after seeing my buddy I found out he was charged with murder I would remember exactly his demeanour the last I saw him. Ie, holy crap he was so calm! Or holy crap no wonder he was freaking out! I think my last interaction with him would haunt me daily, especially knowing that I would likely end up in court over it. JMO of course.

While I don't disagree that most people do remember some things (people close to the accused) memory is a very slippery thing when it comes to traumatic or tragic events. It most definitely does affect the memory and lawyers know it. This is exactly why they ask the questions the way they do and why they make sure to have witness statements available (statements that were made at the time, as opposed to memory recall several years later). Also JMO of course :)

Either way, I think both AM and MH are still lying by omission at best. I think they both probably knew a heck of a lot more than they're letting on. But I don't think they knew DM was capable of killing a man to steal his truck. I think that did actually genuinely freak them out.
 
I know everyone thinks how did these young guys not hear of this it was all over the news. I look back to my early 20's which most of these guys were and between my social life, going to the gym, parties and everything else we never watched the news. If the TV was on it was for video games, sports or PPV for sporting events. The radio was never on it was always an iPod in the car or on a sound dock at home. Our conversations revolved around women and sports and where we were going to party on the weekend certainly not current events.

Also I can see how AM would not put 2 and 2 together about the truck. All other missions involved scouting and planning. He probably assumed the test drive was the scouting and later that night they came back and stole the truck. After all a black Dodge Ram is fairly common vehicle.



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I agree 100%! I was the same at that age. Couldn't tell you ANY current events. The only difference between me being in my early 20's and these guys being in their early 20's is social media. I remember when Tim went missing....every second Tweet was about him. Facebook was 90% Bosma. If one of them had said they hadn't heard about Tim then I'd buy it. But for so many of them to say they knew nothing of the story 3, 4, 5 days later is harder for me to swallow. MOO
 
<rsbm>

If you can find the same toolbox on Walmart or Canadian Tire, you could check the shipping weight. A 16" Stanley toolbox weighs 3 lb and a 24" one 8 lb according to WM, so it had to be a smaller model.

I believe the shipping weight would include the packaging. I can't imagine a plastic 24" toolbox weighing 8lb empty, can you?
 
Sorry if someone already mentioned this but I am just catching up. Looking at that photo of the stairs behind the pharmacy where they dropped off the items to be picked up....not what I was picturing at all. There is no way this was a random spot that they decided to "pull off the road" (I think that was close to the phrase they used) and just got lucky finding a perfect spot like that. I would like someone to ask them if they had used the spot before. I apologize...my recollection is a bit weak but didn't one of them say they were driving with the items and couldn't handle the pressure so they pulled off the road to drop the items so MS could pick them up? No way they randomly pulled over and found a perfect spot like that. My suspicion is this was a known spot that they had used before. MOO (Now someone can post the link where it shows someone saying that they did use it before so I can look like a fool.) :D
 
I believe the shipping weight would include the packaging. I can't imagine a plastic 24" toolbox weighing 8lb empty, can you?

The shipping weight is something stores save in their SAP implementation - they don't take into account final packaging, because that is not part of the measurable product attributes.

The big one has a big plastic tray in it....these toolboxes don't actually have a lot of empty space in them once the tool tray is in the box. That's part of the "hidden" weight.

Also it was quite a small toolbox from what I've seen.
 
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