Bosma Murder Trial 04.13.16 - Day 34

[redwing7225]

"l still don't understand why AM wouldn't have just driven, rather than going on a search so that MH could take his parent's car instead."
Maybe he was paranoid about his car being followed or there being a bolo on his license plate.... Just a thought.

IIRC AM had just gotten license back, I agree with your thought of having a bolo on the plate. Add the fact he was "the accused" roomie...I'm sure he wanted skirt under the radar.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Yes, but my confusion is from how MH came to have the dog. MH said AM had the dog and now today AM says MH had the dog. It makes no sense to me that MH would have had the dog. It would make more sense to me that the dog was at Maplegate and AM got the dog when he got the "stuff" for the drop, so I wonder why he says MH had the dog?

All MOO.

I don't think MH did have the dog, but maybe CN will be able to clear that up.

According to MH, AM came with the dog and they left him at MH's grandmother's while they did the drop in Oakville. When they came back from Oakville, they picked the dog up and AM took him back to his dad's house.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 1m1 minute ago
When they got back they took DM's dog Pedo to Michalski's house. That's the last time he had seen him, he says. #Bosma

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 2m2 minutes ago Toronto, Ontario
Hagerman says the men took Dellen's dog to Andrew's house, and then 'that was the last time I saw him' #Bosma

AM says that MH had the dog and he (AM) gave the dog to MB and CN at his dad's place. I take that to mean AM's dad's place since he said he was staying there after DM was arrested. That makes no sense to me that he would give them the dog at his dad's place if the dog was at MH's place???

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 13h13 hours ago
Matt Hagerman had the dog, he says. Then michalski gave it to Burns and Noudga, at his dad's house.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 13h13 hours ago
Michalski says he gave the two of them the dog at his father's place.

 

[Kamille]

Although none of it makes sense, IMO, MH wold be the one doing the drop. AM seemed quite busy communicating with someone (MS) telling that person the location specifics. I believe MH testified that AM was texting during their travels.

MH was driving his parent's car and wanted nothing to do with meeting up with MS once he heard about what was happening with DM on the radio. So he apparently pulled into a strip mall parking lot. I think it was probably the passenger, AM, who got out and hid the items while texting MS to tell him where he was putting them.

I think I believe MH over AM on a lot of those details. AM was in full DM protection mode, thanks to his call from MS. MH was a little in the dark about what was going on by the time this was happening. AM likely had full knowledge of everything at that time (we know he knew about the truck theft), even though he won't admit to it on the stand. So I think it's MH who is mad at AM for the lies, hence the reason they are not talking.

MOO

 

[Melzack]

I think AM knows so much more. DM tells him he got the truck and he asks no more questions? They were very close to just stop at that answer. AM doesn't want to be the one that puts his buddy away for life. Because of everything DM gave him, he still feels as if he owes him for all the fun stuff he got to do. Unfortunately, his good friend was a killer. I'm really scared that they won't be charged with first degree murder. I really hope Marlena has the strength to say the truth. I think CN will be a hostile witness unless the crown threatens her with life in prison. The Bosma's and especially Tim's daughter need justice for what happened to Tim. The Bosma's have a strong faith and through the power of prayer they will see these two put away.

 

[Kamille]

"l still don't understand why AM wouldn't have just driven, rather than going on a search so that MH could take his parent's car instead."
Maybe he was paranoid about his car being followed or there being a bolo on his license plate.... Just a thought.

I think AM was setting MH up to do the drop to MS himself. MH likely didn't have a lot of information about what was going on but AM sure did. It appears he didn't tell MH what he knew either. Do you think MS didn't tell AM about the owner of the truck being "gone, gone, gone?" Or even DM told him earlier in the week for that matter? I think AM knew exactly how serious this was and tried to use MH to get the evidence to MS.

And MH, once he heard the news on the car radio about the charges against DM, just pulled the car over into the nearest strip mall and told AM he wasn't going to have any more part in this. What he should have done was pulled right into the nearest police station. But he was probably very angry with AM for getting him involved in this drop off at that point and just wanted the stuff out of his parent's car. And I'll bet he was angry at AM for the lies he likely told to get MH to drive to Oakville in the first place.

MOO

 

[Claroon]

If it isn't him in the video, he dressed the same as the guy in video when he picked up MM in the early morning of the 7th. MOO

Really good point! I have clipped him out of the videos--quite blurry and not likely allowed in court of law, but for our viewing. I notice that bulky pocket sticking out.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv7OWZQrbrQ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt_AvHl7vfU

 

[Claroon]

My take on this cross is Sachak has no relevant or intelligent questions to ask of AM. Just wasting court's time?

Perhaps trying to portray it could have been someone else at hangar with Pedo since Pedo wasn't "glued to Millard's side at all times."

 

[Claroon]

So DM didn't take Pedo everywhere. Pedo was not on the May 5 test drive, but was on May 6? Seems DM knew he wasn't going to be home the night of May 6. I think after the May 5 test drive bombed out, DM just made up his mind that on May 6 he was getting a truck come hell or highwater.

So the question remains, how did Pedo and the other pup mysteriously end up at the hangar?

 

[Claroon]

You'll notice Sachak just skipped on by that text. He mentioned it to AM but then suggested that regardless of that text, AM still believed DM was rich and could afford a truck.

I don't think TD or the Crown on re-cross is going to be quite as willing to skip by that text.

MOO

If someone steals a truck, that might be seen as personal use. Personally, DM was giving off an air of being rich paying for meals, trips, etc. so AM reasoned he should have money for a truck. Business financials can be a completely different ballgame. A small business owner might have savings, but to stay afloat still needs the business to bring in money.

 

[Claroon]

But you are contradicting yourself. What precipitated the change of plan? With the exception of accidental discharge, the only other possibility is a response to an action from Tim. The fact that one of those things did happen leads to the question "what evidence is there that there plan was to shoot him outside?"

All IMO, I'd suspect the gun was pulled with one of them saying, "Give me your phone" which was then thrown out the window, i.e. they didn't want him calling anyone once they kicked him to the curb. Perhaps when they grabbed the phone TB tried to wrestle the gun down and was shot. Only one scenario. But the phone was 1 min. back from Bobcat stop and on the passenger side.

 

[Claroon]

There post actions say that the location of the murder (inside the truck) was unplanned. DM had to keep the guys away on the 7th, with an emergency text early in the morning. But we have heard evidence of preparing the Eliminator prior to the test drive, with the question to SS about the state of the generator.

You are saying it was an armed robbery that went wrong. I am saying it was a planned theft and murder, with the murder not going as planned. Big difference. MOO

Another good eye. I didn't realize the questioning about the generator was before May 6. I had thought it was after, but you are right.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...llen-millard-called-his-incinerator-1.3514560

 

[Sillybilly]

AM could not have been at work when he saw that news on the 11th because the 11th is the day they were doing the drug and tool box drop and they were heading back from Oakville around 4:00.

<rsbm>

AM worked at Campbell Soup which iirc is round the clock shift work. FWIW, I know they used to have televisions in the cafeteria, so probably still do.

 

[Claroon]

And as far as the party guy...the entertainer guy ...the wealthy guy....the toy guy....the world travel guy ---that was all zero too.....
The only ones he fooled were a bunch of lost boys who couldn't tell the difference between smoke and mirrors and the real thing....but he seduced them with weed, a party pad, a bunch of old cars and a hangar he couldn't pay for.
He led them down the garden path and in the end he ruined his own life utterly and took a good shot at doing the same to theirs.
He conned them all and in the end their loyalty proved that he pretty much owned them all as well.

Yes, unfortunately this story is sad that he had to "buy" friends.

 

[Claroon]

"l still don't understand why AM wouldn't have just driven, rather than going on a search so that MH could take his parent's car instead."
Maybe he was paranoid about his car being followed or there being a bolo on his license plate.... Just a thought.

I don't think it matters, but yes, he may have wanted the weed far away from his own car and yes to not wanting to be followed. IMO

 

[Sillybilly]

So the question remains, how did Pedo and the other pup mysteriously end up at the hangar?

I'm pretty sure the photo you are referring to was taken at some other time.

 

[Claroon]

<rsbm>

AM worked at Campbell Soup which iirc is round the clock shift work. FWIW, I know they used to have televisions in the cafeteria, so probably still do.

Yeah I kind of wondered when he said he went jogging around 4-5 on the 5th (?) if he worked a shift and got off maybe 3. That might make sense.

 

[Claroon]

I'm pretty sure the photo you are referring to was taken at some other time.

Well Pedo anyhow as he is in the video.

 

[deugirtni]

.... I can't help but think it didn't take much to impress his entourage.

(It's also given me cause to step back and be grateful for my own lot. If that's how the "rich" live, I'll stay where I am.)

Keep in mind that DM's entourage seemed to be comprised of individuals who were each anywhere from 2-5+ years younger than he was, so perhaps you're right in that it didn't take much to impress. I think he perhaps was hard pressed to find groupies and followers who were of the same age, and certainly who were of the same socio-economic status as he was. Free drugs of choice, being wined and dined, even accompanying as travel guests.. constant party-time, no parental cling-ons, probably some fun gamer events, access to cool wheels, perhaps no worries about loud music, pool parties in summer.. perhaps even a potential pad to 'rent' if mom and dad didn't care for the 'tude' exhibited at home. DM's parents probably didn't want to come down on him *too* hard now that he seemed to have a bevy of friends, if he had found it difficult to make friends during his childhood years. I can't *imagine*, seriously, what DM's poor parents must have thought of their prodigy, unless they were so self-consumed themselves, that they did not seem to notice that their son was purchasing and maintaining friends with the family wealth, bit to mention living the life of a completely irresponsible, self absorbed teenager with seemingly zero concept of or respect for money, even while he edged toward age 30.

 

[deugirtni]

Agree with all of the first paragraph and most of the second. IIRC, MH said the first they heard that DM was charged with forcible confinement of TB was on the radio in the car. AM had told him that DM was arrested, but they claim to have thought it was just for a theft of a truck prior to hearing it on the radio. AM could not have been at work when he saw that news on the 11th because the 11th is the day they were doing the drug and tool box drop and they were heading back from Oakville around 4:00. MH says they met at the park and he had to look for his parent's keys to use their car. The text message from AM said to meet at the park, but for some reason, AM now says they met at the house. I tend to think MH's story makes more sense. Still don't understand why AM wouldn't have just driven, rather than going on a search so that MH could take his parent's car instead.

JMO

The first that MH had heard about DM being charged with forcible confinement was in the car on the radio while on the way to the drop.... but that was AFTER AM telling MH that news of DM's arrest was all over the news. AM learned much earlier about the FC charge.

(from ACarter's blog)

10:35 AM
Hagerman says he still didn't link Millard's arrest to Bosma. "All I knew was Dellen was arrested for a stolen truck."

10:37 AM
When they were on the road to Oakville, that changed. "Andrew told me the story was all over the news. I turned on the news and it came up that there was a man still missing and that Dellen was a prime suspect. I panicked and we quickly pulled off the road and dumped what we had in a stairwell somewhere. I couldn't tell you where."

"AM could not have been at work when he saw that news on the 11th" - but yet that is exactly what AM testified:

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes - He says he was at work (on sat) and it came on the news that Dellen Millard had been arrested for forcible confinement. He panicked. #Bosma

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes - He was working at Campbell's Soup that day. So was Bochenek. #Bosma

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes - The news -- on the tv in the lunch room -- also mentioned the missing person Tim #Bosma.

 

[deugirtni]

IIRC AM had just gotten license back, I agree with your thought of having a bolo on the plate. Add the fact he was "the accused" roomie...I'm sure he wanted skirt under the radar.

May 11th was the day of the drop, but AM wasn't 'arrested' until May 13th - he was not yet a suspect. But yes, I suppose with just getting his license back, he wanted to be extra cautious in this case.