Bosma Murder Trial 04.14.16 - Day 35

[Abitcountry]

fftobed:Good night all.....guests too !

 

[Sillybilly]

Reasonable doubt is not "an absolute certainty" (100%) but is more than the "balance of probabilities" (51%) but needs to be closer to "absolute certainty" (Supreme Court of Canada, R. v. Lifchus, is the judicially recommended standard for understanding the concept):

a quick wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Lifchus

Google "R. v. Lifchus". It's hard (if not impossible?) to find the actual case in full, but here's a good paper with examples, including a summary of Lifchus (scroll down):
http://cans.ubclss.com/application/...aw_120_-_Criminal_Law_Winter_2011_STANLEY.pdf


ETA: The appeal:
http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/1543/index.do?r=AAAAAQAHTGlmY2h1cwE

 

[newone]

First time poster. I was a friend of Wayne, employee of Carl and had met DM several times while he was a child. I would love to think he is innocent of this.. The most damning aspect of this Imo his reaction after the fact. Seem's significantly proofed that he was there. Myself, and I think 99.999% of people would be a wreck if they had accidentally killed someone (even in self defence). The one Constant throughout all the self serving (protecting) testimony is that Dellen wasn't rattled even a bit.. I reluctantly have a hard time believing it was an unplanned or accidental murder

Thanks for being here!!

I have wondered if his high achievement as a pilot at an early came with a sacrifice of emotions.....aka not a typical kid ....


Welcome to Websleuths:welcome6:

 

[Sillybilly]

Supreme Court Judgments, R. v. Starr, starting at Pg 15 of 75:

C. The Adequacy of the Instruction to the Jury on Reasonable Doubt

(1) The Decisions in Lifchus and Bisson

81 As Iacobucci J. ably describes, our recent decisions in Lifchus, supra, and R. v. Bisson, [1998] 1 S.C.R. 306, provide the framework for a review of a trial judge’s charge to the jury on reasonable doubt. I wish to emphasize the following points regarding these decisions ...

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/1804/index.do

 

[Sillybilly]

First time poster. I was a friend of Wayne, employee of Carl and had met DM several times while he was a child. I would love to think he is innocent of this.. The most damning aspect of this Imo his reaction after the fact. Seem's significantly proofed that he was there. Myself, and I think 99.999% of people would be a wreck if they had accidentally killed someone (even in self defence). The one Constant throughout all the self serving (protecting) testimony is that Dellen wasn't rattled even a bit.. I reluctantly have a hard time believing it was an unplanned or accidental murder

Hi Stumper, and Welcome to Websleuths.

This must be a difficult case for you to follow. I truly hope that ultimately your good memories of your friend Wayne will outweigh and outlive any that this case may bring about :rose:

 

[Maple1]

Agree, they have to demonstrate process. Jury may also use known speech pattern of sender, receivers?
Does this make sense.
My first post.
Thanks to everyone who does the text data entry. Interesting to see differences in the reporting as I am sure they type as fast as they can.

 

[Maple1]

They have to both make the case that this was MS's phone (by content) and present what was found on that phone alone, first.

Then I guess they will present the DM phone, and THEN a presentation that links that conversations between the two, IMO.

This relates to my answer on post 446. Oops. Made a mistake on attaching the quote.
Where I agree with above statement.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I actually thought that TD was strategically probing and simultaneously restrained in his cross of AM, and I thought TD was highly effective today, IMO.

TD didn't need to highlight AM's character flaws as AM did that himself by his own words and actions, long before this crime, in the days leading up to it, and in its aftermath, even when AM knew TB had been murdered, IMO.

DM said about TB's truck to SS in a text: "What truck?" I say to you and others about AM: What character?

When it came to AM speaking about his fear, what I found most compelling was AM's fear for himself in the circumstances he found himself in, after being charged with first degree murder, IMO. AM said he was afraid of MS, yet that assertion did not come across to me as believable as it was not mentioned at all when AM testified that he was in the presence of MS when AM says that DM talked about stealing a truck, IMO, nor when AM talked on the stand about making the drop, IMO. He said earlier that he just didn't want to be near MS or be involved in the crime, and that rang true to me, IMO, because I see AM acting out of self-interest and in protection-from-suspicion mode from the get-go, IMO.

I suspect because AM did not want to get into any trouble with LE if he had been caught making that drop directly to MS, IMO, he had good reason to want to avoid MS if there was drugs and/or gun(s) in the items he was dropping in MS's girlfriend's or her sister's "hood", IMO. At no point that I recall did AM suggest that he had felt frightened by MS, rather AM said he felt angry at DM supposedly for DM's intention to steal a truck, IMO, and that to me sounds rather unlikely given that AM himself had on previous occasions participated in thefts and knew about others (Harley) and AM knew what DM was all about, IMO. Why was this particular theft the kind that would suddenly inspire anger from AM? It sounds to me like that would have been a first for AM to challenge DM over a theft, and since AM said too on the stand that he found DM intimidating. AM is likely selectively scared and intimidated by DM and/or MS now, when in the past he eagerly went along to aid and abet other crimes with them without so much as raising a brow in concern, IMO.

From my perspective, TD made his points very clear regarding AM. I wonder how the jury will interpret AM and his testimony?

All MOO.

bbm

My understanding is AM didn't raise an eyebrow in concern re thefts until DM seemed to plan a dangerous theft possibly including murder of the car owner. He wasn't in the position to tell "boss" DM definitely fun and thrill would be crossing a certain border, therefore he said only "F..k off!" and turned aside.
After the mysterious truck theft and a missing car owner and in respect of many big thefts/many drugs in the past and possibly/probably 1 or 2 weapons, AM logically was scared of both, DM and MS. He didn't know all the actions DM/MS had taken but he had the worst fear. If it was known to him like it was known to MS' "best friend" D that MS had a short temper and was prone to violence, then of course he didn't want to meet him under the given circumstances with a sack full of drugs and an ominous toolbox (perhaps even under surveillance by LE).
AM was scared of MS as well as he was now scared of DM who was in prison but nobody would know, how long he would be locked up. AM feared for himself because of his participation in thefts/drugs in the past AND feared the revenge of DM in case of pending lack of loyalty, so he told LE lies or held back important infos.
When I think of the arrested MS who first appeared in court with handcuffs, shackles and a black eye (don't find the link now, sorry) which suggested some sort of recalcitrance, I'm not surprised by AM's fear he had when Mark was still without handcuffs and shackles before (ie behind buildings in an isolated area).

 

[musicaljoke]

It's early in the morning here. The house is quiet, but my mind is on this trial. I thought I would go back to the very first thread about this case, to see if there were prophets amoung us who made early predictions that turned out to be right.

On May 7, 2013, thread #1, post #7, Jash wrote: "if this did have anything to do with selling his truck, hopefully there is a trail of emails or phone calls that police can follow."

May 8, 2013, Chorley8 was the first who called it. "Doubt they were after the truck."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Bosma-32-Hamilton-Ontario-6-May-2013-1/page4

 

[Coldpizza]

Weekend discussion thread