Bosma Murder Trial 04.21.16 - Day 38

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Im still not buying that she is telling the truth. The fact that she said they didn't discuss the truck seemed weird. She knew the mission, only makes sense that they would talk about it, especially given the fact that they said they wanted to celebrate. An event like that would be burned in her mind given what she learned a few days later.

I will agree with you somewhat...I think you are right.. I think she hounded him for info. Where I don't agree is that he answered. And I think by her own admission that he sometimes didn't treat her so well, I think she knew when to back off. JMO
 
Surely her memory wouldn't be that blurry.

Oh yes, it could be, very easily. Memory is a tricky thing. The kind of memory we're talking about here is episodic memory, that is, memory of events, things seen and heard. This type of memory is very unreliable in everybody, with rare exceptions for savant syndrome types. However, most people think their memory is good to great, when actual experiments and tests show the opposite to be the case. Eyewitness testimony is hugely unreliable, and one problem that occurs when people are repeatedly asked to describe something that happened, is that every time part of the real memory gets dropped out and the brain inserts something else to take its place and before long the whole "recollection" is quite distorted from the real event.

One of the acknowledged world experts in the field is Elizabeth Loftus, whom I had the privilege of hearing at a professional symposium recently. I recommend any of her books, but anyone interested might want to start with some of her YouTube offerings. For an overview, here's the Wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Loftus

One can have a spectacular memory in other ways but will be no better than anyone else at episodic memory. I could remember whole pages of the dictionary as a kid but I now know I would not be a good witness to an auto accident just because I readily remember 25-digit numbers or multiple things in print. These are different kinds of memory and use different brain structures. Others have spectacular visual-spatial memory (chess masters) or motor memory (gymnasts, violinists).

Memory is a fascinating topic,but quite complex. I for one did not find it surprising that many of the witnesses didn't remember significant things (and said so). Typically, people only remember what they pay attention to, and that only for a short time and usually in a mixed-up way.
 
MM testified that MS was on the phone requesting the drugs be taken out of the house and brought to him. There are several tweets about MM overhearing MS's end of the conversation but not once did she mention the toolbox being requested. AM said that MS had asked for it but it seemed by today's testimony that MS was not expecting the toolbox. So, did DM direct that it be given to MS if he was arrested or was AM telling the truth that MS specifically requested it?
 
"We were pretty close, but, he wasn't always the greatest to me."
by Adam Carter 10:19 AM

She says she hasn't talked to Smich since he was arrested, and they're no longer together. "The day I got arrested, I just figured why even bother still being with him."
by Adam Carter 10:19 AM

Meneses says she met Millard through Smich. "They were really close, like brothers. I would say Mark cared for Dellen more than he cared for other people. He was in love with him."
by Adam Carter 10:20 AM

"You could just tell that was Mark's feelings towards Dellen.
by Adam Carter 10:21 AM


Alex Pierson has an interesting report on courtroom atmosphere. Esp after this comment:

https://soundcloud.com/am900chml/th...-is-on-the-stand-today-in-the-tim-bosma-trial
 
Isn't it odd that her story and AM's story line up, and AM was the only one that knew DM was arrested bc, IIRC, the cops next stop was their house? And also odd that MM and AM are still friends to this day. Perhaps it was AM that called MM's phone to alert them? When did AM's calls start that we know of?

LE never went to Maplegate that night. And MS called AM to tell him of DM's arrest.

One of the reasons why LE didn't show up at Maplegate was likely because DM's driver's license conveniently had him living at Riverside. Not to mention he gave them the farm address in the morning of the same day. And from what I understand, LE were present at the farm on the 10th. So it may have taken a while before LE knew where he actually lived because I don't believe they showed up at Maplegate until the 11th. I wonder if AM had already left to meet up with MH by the time LE showed up? I don't think we heard anything about any interaction AM had with LE at the house on the 11th did we?

MOO
 
Yeah, but she didn't make herself bleed like LW, and she handed over info on all of her phones.

She didn't evade questions for 40 pages of a 60 page statement.

It didn't take 4 interviews to get the truth.

She was a totally willing witness, and while one might not like the story MS told, I think MM's story is the truth of what she knows, was told, understands.
Yes. Marlena is the first one to actually have a conscience and show sadness at the murder of Tim Bosma. Others showed zero emotion and worried about their own butts first. SS should be charged with something. Moo
 

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 44s44 seconds ago
Now shifting to day of Millard's arrest - Smich was with her at her sisters place when Millard's picture flashed across the TV news. #Bosma


All the tweets about this are on page 15 of this thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?305676-Bosma-Murder-Trial-04-21-16-Day-38/page15

Im reading the written news reports and they all say "when MM seen DM's name" none of the reports I've looked at so far say "seen his picture". Reporter errors in the court room? Maybe there was a breaking news banner that she seen?

*when Millard’s name popped up on the screen. The newscast said he’d been arrested in connection with Bosma’s disappearance.
http://globalnews.ca/news/2653558/d...y-happy-after-tim-bosma-vanished-trial-hears/

Marlena Meneses, 22, said she and Smich were watching the news on May 10, 2013, when Millard's name appeared on the screen*
http://m.thespec.com/news-story/6508117-bosma-trial-girlfriend-says-smich-told-her-dell-did-it-all-
 
Is the consensus that this part of Meneses's testimony is 1) a lie, or 2) a misrecollection? I was hoping somebody here would recall hearing about Millard's arrest on the Friday night (May 10), but most people seem pretty convinced that there was absolutely no announcement until the next day. I personally cannot remember, nor can I find a good source about the news coming out on the 10th.

What bothers me about this is that Meneses's testimony fits so well into the timeline, and something alerted Smich to start calling Michalski about getting the drugs out of Maple Gate. And in all of the testimony we heard, there was no mention of Noudga or anyone else reaching out to Smich to tell him that Millard was arrested. If there was no news until Saturday, I'd like to understand how Smich found out, and why Meneses is lying/misremembering.

I looked back at the original thread on this board, and there was literally no mention of an arrest in the thread until after 11 am on the 11th. I'd imagine, even if we didn't have the name until the press conference on the 11th, that if the arrest had been in MSM as MM is recalling, we certainly would have been discussing it. My best guess is that the description of DMs tattoos were on tv, causing MM to connect the Bosma case to the successful mission. That, or someone tipped them off about the arrest. Perhaps MB contacted CN who in turn got word to MS, as she knows the extent of the mission, and perhaps had been told by DM to tell Mark asap if he should be arrested. MOO
 
LE never went to Maplegate that night. And MS called AM to tell him of DM's arrest.

One of the reasons why LE didn't show up at Maplegate was likely because DM's driver's license conveniently had him living at Riverside. Not to mention he gave them the farm address in the morning of the same day. And from what I understand, LE were present at the farm on the 10th. So it may have taken a while before LE knew where he actually lived because I don't believe they showed up at Maplegate until the 11th. I wonder if AM had already left to meet up with MH by the time LE showed up? I don't think we heard anything about any interaction AM had with LE at the house on the 11th did we?

MOO
Good points Kamille, thanks for clarifying MY memory! We didn't that I know of. This time period seems to be being presented a bit hazily by prosecution. By design or because it's a weak link?
 
I sat in today and I don't have much to add but I don't think the reporters mentioned this - when MM testified about MS talking about DM doing the killing, DM was GLARING at MS for a few minutes. Additionally, when a surveillance photograph of MM and MS was shown, MS looked to have slummed a bit and put his head in hands.

DM made my friend and me super uncomfortable. Before the day began he was sitting and laughing with his lawyers. When we were dismissed for the afternoon recess, he stood up, turned to watch the spectators and smiles. I don't know how the friends and family do it everyday.

Can't wait till the Jury tells him he's going away for the rest of his life! Total Sociopath IMO!
 
Yes, I agree. But MM also texted her sister from the wedding "we're next"....

JMO but weddings are little a little world all in their own. So much happiness and love. Not just the bride and groom. Parents, friends., all stand up and share their innermost feelings. Everyone in attendance feels the electricity of the day. I can easily see her as a youngster putting aside the nightmare that has been her life for the couple weeks and dreaming of a future with a man she loved. Seriously..who the H wouldn't want to put their Hell behind them for one day. I am not saying it was right..I quite think it was wrong. .I am just saying I can see it happening.
 
But if I am not mistaken she did admit that MS said that "they" burned him.. Pretty sure I am not wanting to lie beside a guy who just admitted that to me.

Maybe he had her juiced or drugged out enough to ignore it. IMO
 
She says Meneses is finishing her cross-examination tomorrow morning "and then they'll break for the weekend."

Does she know something no one else in the world knows?

She said she thought the crown had about another hour after lunch, but that the cross exam wouldn't begin til next week because they didn't want to break it up? Only thing incorrect is that they broke right after lunch.
 
Were the early press releases regarding the timing of DM's arrest incorrect?

I'm using the "wayback machine" and looking at the news about the arrest of Dellen Millard in the Toronto Star as captured on Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 20:54.
Here's the link:
https://web.archive.org/web/2013051...im_bosma_arrest_made_hamilton_police_say.html

It says:


Was DM arrested on the evening of Friday May 10? Or the morning of Saturday May 11?

I live a few blocks from where DM was arrested. I can't vouch personally for when he was arrested, but I can tell you it was not until Saturday that media was there at the place he was arrested...then satellite trucks were everywhere.
 
Meneses's testimony today is the only evidence (that I'm aware of) that the jury has heard to explain how Smich was notified of Millard's arrest. And whether she was lying or not, I think everyone agrees that her explanation was wrong because the news of Millard's arrest did not actually hit the news until the following day.

Therefore, the jury has not heard any reliable evidence to explain how Smich found out about Millard's arrest. Of all the phone activity and extraction reports presented by the Crown, there is nothing to show that anyone contacted Smich between the time of Millard's arrest and the time that Smich first contacted Michalski to tell him "they got Dell." Is this not a critical or important event? If Millard's lawyer was the one who contacted Smich, would there be a reason why that couldn't be disclosed in the court?
 
I'm about four days behind on the comment threads, but have been trying to follow a couple of the reporter's tweets. Not sure if this has already been mentioned.

In MM's testimony, she stated:



I wonder if these charges are still pending or have been dropped:



http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5262706-co-accused-in-bosma-murder-case-faces-new-charge/

Maybe we'll find out during cross by the defense.

JMO

He may have reached out to her..Charge is not against her for responding. JMO
 
I wonder why MS thought it was so important to have the drugs removed from the house after DM was arrested. I know the house would be searched by LE and they would have found the drugs anyway if they were not removed but what was going through MS's mind at the time to worry him so much about it? At that point there was nothing linking the drugs to MS so why even bother in the first place and LE was more interested in finding a man still presumed missing at that point. Was MS just trying to save DM's *advertiser censored** or did he want the drugs for himself or both?
 
I think the question will be asked next week. She didn't see it on the news, but they both knew. He told AM when he called him that DM had been arrested. I am very curious about the 50 minute visit. I wonder if that's one of the things legal arguments prevented them from asking today.
MM is not the only one that has testified this. In JV's testimony on March 23 Molley Hayes tweeted:

BBM

"He never got paid, he says. Because Millard got arrested. He learned about it on TV Friday evening. #Bosma Mar 23, 2016"

I was expecting one of the D's to question this and they didn't. MM has now testified the same thing so perhaps it was a news flash or something? Strange that two of them would say it. MOO
 
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