Bosma Murder Trial 04.25.16 - Day 39

[Sillybilly]

are they saying that MM just learned of the gun being used in the murder recently from the news? I am not understanding why they are not discrediting the fact that it was not released to the public until the trial..so how is it she is testifying she found out about the gun from the news and no one is jumping on it?

I suspect her memory is a bit fuzzy on the specifics ... she remembers that at the time everyone was freaking out about getting rid of the gun around the same she heard on the news that TB's remains were found. Would be pretty natural to think the gun was the weapon used to kill the victim. JMO

 

[Inspector_North]

I guess in order to do that, they would have to prove that piece of information never appeared in any newscast or article. Same with her saying she learned about Millards arrest on the news, prove she didn't.

When proof is not available, probability that it occurred trumps. And that is not a good thing for MM. MOO

 

[EspressoBean]

I always was thinking MS had two sisters and thankfully you are also on this path. Does he have two or one - I want to know after 3 years thinking of 2??

(I remember one sister being at AutoTrader ...?)

He has 2 sisters.

 

[Inspector_North]

I suspect her memory is a bit fuzzy on the specifics ... she remembers that at the time everyone was freaking out about getting rid of the gun around the same she heard on the news that TB's remains were found. Would be pretty natural to think the gun was the weapon used to kill the victim. JMO

She totally lost her recollection when asked if she was invited to be a lookout. She did recover with a possible but didn't go. MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

She has been challenged on several things and they mostly resulted in her admitting it was a lie. She stated a very important observation on Thursday about their mood in the Yukon, and I was hoping her credibility would hold. If DM's defense team managed to make her look like a liar, I expect it will be benign compared to Dungey's cross. He may go easy on her, but you can be sure he will discredit her damaging accounts of MS. And in doing so, make the mood in the Yukon even that more questionable.

MOO

I simply don't get the concern surrounding the difference between 'happy' and 'celebrating'. One is an adjective used 3 years ago to describe mood; the other is a verb used 3 years later to describe how they were exhibiting happiness. IMO, when one is celebrating, they are happy. What'd I miss?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

So Smich's sister knew he had a gun and asked him to get rid of it?

How did she know????????????

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I understand the emotions and gravity of the situation, but I also understand the emotions of being wrongly accused. Are you not curious of the proof? The claim has a big impact on her testimony.


Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 3m3 minutes ago
"He hit you. He called you names. He called you his *****." Ya. Meneses sighs.In front of others. Humiliating.

The case I stated a few discussions ago, that I had to testify as a witness, was for abuse. The girl endured 20+ years of abuse and didn't say a word to anyone, in fear of her own life! She witnessed things but for fear of her and her kids, did not step forward. Family members knew only by the bruises on her face but she never would she admit it. The guy didn't slap her around in front of anyone but uttered vulgar names of her..*advertiser censored*, bi***, wore etc...it was embarrassing to her! IMO, that is what MM ment by "in front of others". People that didn't see what this girl (my case) went through or witness the bruised eyes, thought they had the "perfect" life, with the perfect kids, in the perfect home! Her life was hell behind closed doors and it took being at deaths door for her to finally get away! He had been charged and convicted of abuse, abuse causing bodily harm, attempted muder. Now waiting for the dangerous offers list hearing/sentencing.
MM was young and scared, no where to go and probably afraid of what else backed up MS. I still look over my shoulder for coming forward, the victim will always look over her shoulder. Even behind bars, this idiot still has his followers! Some of these abuse cases are alot more complex, then just a regular domestic abuse case.

 

[andreww]

When proof is not available, probability that it occurred trumps. And that is not a good thing for MM. MOO

Yep, she's lying, I noticed that last Thursday. But they have all lied. I really think the entire gang knew what was going on even before the test drive. Millard and Smich were showing off their guns on social media, so no surprise there. They all knew about the incinerator and were also probably aware of what it was for. Nobody asked questions. Nobody cared. All guilty of something and scrambling for cover now.

 

[Nosey Parker]

When proof is not available, probability that it occurred trumps. And that is not a good thing for MM. MOO

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 1m1 minute ago
"Why would I want to get myself involved?" Meneses says. "Exactly," says Sachak

From the jury's perspective, this is not a good thing for MM either, IMO.

 

[EspressoBean]

I'm not sure how they would go about proving it in trial, but information regarding the gun or that Tim was a victim of shooting was never in the news. While I think a lot of what she had to say, was credible, I also think she was crumbling quickly in the details. She presents so much younger than her 22 years and the effects of trauma would likely come into play.
While I think that she holds responsibility for her actions and inactions, I think she would have benefited from having some support or even a lawyer to help her understand things more clearly. I haven't heard of her ever accessing her own lawyer. I would also imagine that her multiple pages of statements to the police on different days might have at times been regarding other charges that MS and DM are facing. That's a lot of questions and information that she has been trying to make sense of and recall. She also has admittedly used substances that are not known to be memory aids.
JMO

 

[Tealgrove]

I'm not sure what to think. Why do they all lie? They all get caught up in it eventually. I do believe her memory of exact events, times and days are a bit hazy and to be honest, mine might be too. I think it's important to remember that MM still has not finished high school, has a history of making bad choices (just like the rest of them) and although it appears she is trying to do the right thing it's all got muddled up. Defence is really hammering away at her and she can't think and then eventually it comes tumbling out.

Just a thought....I guess if LE went at her as hard as Defence did today they'd be in trouble. But it's OK for the Defence to level her.

I'm hoping the Jury is smart enough to see the truths/half truths and lies and wade through it. MM does have valuable testimony. It's important to remember that.

 

[Inspector_North]

The case I stated a few discussions ago, that I had to testify as a witness, was for abuse. The girl endured 20+ years of abuse and didn't say a word to anyone, in fear of her own life! She witnessed things but for fear of her and her kids, did not step forward. Family members knew only by the bruises on her face but she never would she admit it. The guy didn't slap her around in front of anyone but uttered vulgar names of her..*advertiser censored*, bi***, wore etc...it was embarrassing to her! IMO, that is what MM ment by "in front of others". People that didn't see what this girl (my case) went through or witness the bruised eyes, thought they had the "perfect" life, with the perfect kids, in the perfect home! Her life was hell behind closed doors and it took being at deaths door for her to finally get away! He had been charged and convicted of abuse, abuse causing bodily harm, attempted muder. Now waiting for the dangerous offers list hearing/sentencing.
MM was young and scared, no where to go and probably afraid of what else backed up MS. I still look over my shoulder for coming forward, the victim will always look over her shoulder. Even behind bars, this idiot still has his followers! Some of these abuse cases are alot more complex, then just a regular domestic abuse case.

I understand your point of view, and realize this is a very emotional subject. But the abuse in this trial is being used to prove that MS an angry dirt bag. And being a dirt bag, is capable of murder. Should we not question the abuse that was witnessed in front of others without proof?

This perceived characterization of MS is based on "she says". She said a lot of things that were lies.

I believe they are both guilty of first degree, and wonder how her testimony can hold any weight to help at this point. I don't think it will be much better after Dungey is done questioning. We are still missing much about MS's involvement related to premeditated, and I am not sure she is helping with the closure the Bosma family deserves. MOO

 

[JPC]

I
While I think that she holds responsibility for her actions and inactions, I think she would have benefited from having some support or even a lawyer to help her understand things more clearly. I haven't heard of her ever accessing her own lawyer. I would also imagine that her multiple pages of statements to the police on different days might have at times been regarding other charges that MS and DM are facing. That's a lot of questions and information that she has been trying to make sense of and recall. She also has admittedly used substances that are not known to be memory aids.
JMO

Agreed. There is nothing to indicate that she has a strong support network from a family or friends perspective, no $$ and very little education. Her sister provided a place to stay but based on the fact that she let MS stay there as well, seems like she didn't have a lot of influence. I don't know that MM would have someone advocating for her best interests on her behalf. It will be interesting to see how CN holds up. Rubikinks has been having fun taking in tie streetscapes in TO. Almost like she doesn't have a care in the world.

 

[RandomName479]

I understand your point of view, and realize this is a very emotional subject. But the abuse in this trial is being used to prove that MS an angry dirt bag. And being a dirt bag, is capable of murder. Should we not question the abuse that was witnessed in front of others without proof?

This perceived characterization of MS is based on "she says". She said a lot of things that were lies.

I believe they are both guilty of first degree, and wonder how her testimony can hold any weight to help at this point. I don't think it will be much better after Dungey is done questioning. We are still missing much about MS's involvement related to premeditated, and I am not sure she is helping with the closure the Bosma family deserves. MOO

BBM - i honestly don't know what to think about MM's testimony. But where are you getting this "abuse witnessed by others"? I don't recall reading that....one tweet said she was testifying TODAY in front of others and that must be humiliating.....but I'm understanding it differently than you are.....MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I understand your point of view, and realize this is a very emotional subject. But the abuse in this trial is being used to prove that MS an angry dirt bag. And being a dirt bag, is capable of murder. Should we not question the abuse that was witnessed in front of others without proof?

This perceived characterization of MS is based on "she says". She said a lot of things that were lies.

I believe they are both guilty of first degree, and wonder how her testimony can hold any weight to help at this point. I don't think it will be much better after Dungey is done questioning. We are still missing much about MS's involvement related to premeditated, and I am not sure she is helping with the closure the Bosma family deserves. MOO

Keep in mind, MM herself only volunteered that MS didn't treat her that great all the time. IT's S&P that raised the "abuse" issue and characterized it as "horrific". No doubt DM witnessed said "horrific" "abuse" and advised his lawyer to get MM to admit to it, to bolster his own case that MS was the murderer.

I can't believe how hard you're coming down on MM.

 

[Typhoo1961]

No one knows what happens behind closed doors but the couple themselves. Just because others didn't know about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. So many women who are abused don't let on to others than they are.

For example, her sister knew MM wasn't in a great relationship but didn't know of abuse. IMO, that is because MM hid it from others.

Domestic abuse gets hidden. It gets hidden because the woman being abused is ashamed and she sees no way out of the relationship.
I was abused by my ex husband for years physically, mentally and verbally before I finally grew a set of b*lls and got out of the marriage but I do remember a couple of weeks with 2 black eyes that I kept hidden from everyone. That was the only time my abuse was visible because it was the one and only time he hit me directly in the face.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I had wanted to know if MS was writing the whole time in court when MM testified. Then he would now have a Dickens novel with around 302 pages, I think?

One tweet said he was making notes and was looking down and once emotional shook his head.

 

[SnooperDuper]

BBM - i honestly don't know what to think about MM's testimony. But where are you getting this "abuse witnessed by others"? I don't recall reading that....one tweet said she was testifying TODAY in front of others and that must be humiliating.....but I'm understanding it differently than you are.....MOO

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 3m3 minutes ago
"He hit you. He called you names. He called you his *****." Ya. Meneses sighs. In front of others. Humiliating.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
"Pretty humiliating to be called his *****, to be assaulted," Sachak says. "Right," she says. #Bosma

^ that's what we've got on that. Wait for the news articles for clarity, I guess?

 

[ArianeEmory]

I understand your point of view, and realize this is a very emotional subject. But the abuse in this trial is being used to prove that MS an angry dirt bag. And being a dirt bag, is capable of murder. Should we not question the abuse that was witnessed in front of others without proof?

This perceived characterization of MS is based on "she says". She said a lot of things that were lies.

I believe they are both guilty of first degree, and wonder how her testimony can hold any weight to help at this point. I don't think it will be much better after Dungey is done questioning. We are still missing much about MS's involvement related to premeditated, and I am not sure she is helping with the closure the Bosma family deserves. MOO

I hope that your repeated use of the word "emotional" to describe people's views on abuse is not meant to imply "... and therefore irrational".

There are many, many emotional aspects to this case, and I'm pretty sure none of us posting are robots, nor able to achieve 100% objectivity.

MM's testimony, for example, seems to be bothering lots of people in lots of different ways, all of which are based in emotion. Outrage at perceived injustice is an emotion. Horror on behalf of the Bosma family is an emotion. Etc.

 

[Satchie]

I simply don't get the concern surrounding the difference between 'happy' and 'celebrating'. One is an adjective used 3 years ago to describe mood; the other is a verb used 3 years later to describe how they were exhibiting happiness. IMO, when one is celebrating, they are happy. What'd I miss?

I think because people celebrate a specific event (ie a successful mission), and the word implies something that can be verified by an outsider (champagne?), whereas happy is a mood that doesn't need to be linked to an event, and can be faked, or brought on by drugs, etc.