Bosma Murder Trial 04.25.16 - Day 39

[SnooperDuper]

Ted Michaels ‏@TedCHML 1h1 hour ago Toronto, Ontario
@AlexpiersonAMP has a story about testimony at the #TimBosma trial at 4 pm @AM900CHML that has me so angry my hands are shaking.

 

[buddhanna]

newbie here....this is riveting reading the tweets

 

[mozzagirl]

Yep, she's lying, I noticed that last Thursday. But they have all lied. I really think the entire gang knew what was going on even before the test drive. Millard and Smich were showing off their guns on social media, so no surprise there. They all knew about the incinerator and were also probably aware of what it was for. Nobody asked questions. Nobody cared. All guilty of something and scrambling for cover now.

They were??

All we have seen is pictures of a gun found on MS's iPad and DM's phone. The only time a picture was found with a gun other than that was that DM sent a picture of it to CN.

<modsnip>

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I understand your point of view, and realize this is a very emotional subject. But the abuse in this trial is being used to prove that MS an angry dirt bag. And being a dirt bag, is capable of murder. Should we not question the abuse that was witnessed in front of others without proof?

This perceived characterization of MS is based on "she says". She said a lot of things that were lies.

I believe they are both guilty of first degree, and wonder how her testimony can hold any weight to help at this point. I don't think it will be much better after Dungey is done questioning. We are still missing much about MS's involvement related to premeditated, and I am not sure she is helping with the closure the Bosma family deserves. MOO

No, because she is not on trial! I still believe the "abuse in front of others" was by degrading words, not physically being hit. Untill I hear otherwise, I'll stand behind that. Sometimes words hurt more, then a punch to the gutts!

See this is the problem with society. Abused women are terrified to step forward for fear of not being believed. I don't care how many lies MM has told, it's not fair to discredit her abuse.

Yes, guys that can beat up a woman are capible of murder! How many of these abuse cases end in muder?

 

[billandrew]

Just tweeted by @ShannonMartinTV:



Smich looks nothing like this now.

 

[ThelmaLouise]

That's like when you call police to say my neighbour threatened me and they say, we have to catch him in the act. OMG. Are you implying she needs to be seen being slapped or have reported bruses to police? Hope not. MS is what he is IMO

It is the norm.
We had a male witness testify that Mark had some anger/temper issues. (Paraphrase) 'Mark makes me nervous' . BD said 'Mark got angry, and he felt intimidated by MS'.
BD didn`t tell the 'whole truth' because he didnt want to be a snitch. Then was questioned by Pillay in an easy manner as to why :
' You didn`t have time to think about your options'. As Pillay said. BD agreed.
No one batted an eye. BD lied to Police, and told the truth later. Even on the stand, he might of been shielding some truths.

A woman says he is abusive after being asked, and boom,...we question the credibility.
She changes her story,...well,...she should of had better morals. No one lies at 19.:thinking:
She goes by a code (doesnt want to snitch)......and she is a fool.
She says she has gone on with her life,....yet the defence tries to break her credibility down even more.

I am far from thinking MM is a saint, ......I am not looking to break bread with her anytime soon.
However, the Court Of Morals is a little hard on her in comparison to a 'best friend' who gave advice on how to hide a gun, sell a gun, etc.

 

[toom]

I simply don't get the concern surrounding the difference between 'happy' and 'celebrating'. One is an adjective used 3 years ago to describe mood; the other is a verb used 3 years later to describe how they were exhibiting happiness. IMO, when one is celebrating, they are happy. What'd I miss?

Because a lawyer's work often involves understanding/exploiting tiny differences in the meaning of words. They and judges get hung up on trivial differences even though the jury and anyone else not in the profession just don't use language as carefully, and likely think it's irrelevant.

 

[Inspector_North]

How did she know????????????

FYI for those that thought it was MM's sister. This could be why.

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont 39s39 seconds ago
Mark asked him for help with weed and gun while at his sister's apartment. #Bosma

as for why she knew.

Maybe her knowledge was not of the gun, but included it in her demand.

"That was probably what triggered him asking me to get rid of it. I think his sister was telling him to get rid of anything he had," Daly says.
by Adam Carter 2:48 PM

or

Alex Pierson &#8207;@AlexpiersonAMP 3m3 minutes ago
Arthur messed up the tool box job. He told his mother. Smich was confronted by his mom. She yelled at him in Russian. @AM900CHML #TimBosma

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?304507-Bosma-Murder-Trial-04-06-16-Day-31/page3

MOO

 

[Orderly]

I found this Wikipedia article on witness credibility extremely helpful:

There are many tools for assessing the credibility and reliability of a witness' testimony:[SUP][1][/SUP]

1. Internal inconsistencies: consider the inconsistencies with previous statements or testimony at trial.
2. External inconsistencies: consider the contradictory and corroborative evidence between witnesses;
3. Bias and Partiality: assess the partiality of witnesses due to kinship, hostility, self-interest, or any other motive to favour or injure the accused;
4. Capacity: consider the capacity of the witness to relate their testimony:
   1. ability and opportunity to observe,
   2. ability to remember and
   3. ability to communicate the details of their testimony;
5. Justifiable error: consider whether the witness, because of the turmoil surrounding the event at the time it occurred, have been easily or understandably in error as to detail, or even as to the time of the occurrence;
6. consider the emotional state of the witness at the time (in a calm state or panicked state, for example);
7. if recollection was recorded, consider the timing at which notes where made;
8. consider the demeanor of the witness in the witness box (voice tone, body language, etc)
9. consider the manner of response, being whether the witness was forthright and responsive to questions or was the witness evasive, argumentative or hesitant to answer (either at time of testimony or in prior statements);
10. consider whether common sense suggests that the evidence is impossible or highly improbable or whether it was reasonable and consistent with itself and with the uncontradicted facts.
    1. considering whether a persons' words and actions are explained and whether it matches their emotional state at the time[SUP][2][/SUP]
    2. the reasonableness of a person's reaction to events
    3. evidence showing the demeanor of a complainant shortly following the offence can be useful to credibility. A person alleging a sexual assault or common assault may be quite upset when speaking to police, which may lend to credibility.[SUP][3][/SUP]
    4. whether there is any embellishment or minimizing of events. Likewise, an signs of attempts at recasting evidence to suit a partricular goal; putting himself in a good light

Minor inconsistencies[edit]

Inconsistencies between witnesses regarding things such as time, speed and distance, all of which are affected by subjective assessments, will usually have a limited effect on reliability unless glaringly different. Minor differences on details can in fact enhance, rather than detract, from the credibility of the witness as too much similarity will suggest collusion.
The courts should be hesitant to devalue a witnesses testimony based on minor or &#8220;perceived inconsistencies&#8221;.[SUP][1][/SUP] The benefit of the doubt should be given to the witness.[SUP][2]

[/SUP]
Major Inconsistencies[edit]

Where there are two equally credible witnesses there are a number of rules of thumb that can be applied:

• the testimony must be contrasted with the undisputed facts to see which is the closer "fit".[SUP][1][/SUP]
• The judge should consider what is reasonably recallable and not recallable by the particular witness.
• the judge should favour the witness who is in a better position to know a particular fact.[SUP][2][/SUP]
• where evidence is "incredible", there must be more undisputed facts to support this claim[SUP][3][/SUP]

Where there are major inconsistencies or contradictions with with key crown witnesses, or where there are otherwise conflicting evidence, the trier-of-fact would be "carefully assess" the evidence before.[SUP][4]

Link: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Procedure_and_Practice/Trials/Weighing_Evidence
[/SUP]
It' d be an interesting exercise for someone to try to apply these tools to the witnesses that have testified.

 

[Inspector_North]

No, because she is not on trial! I still believe the "abuse in front of others" was by degrading words, not physically being hit. Untill I hear otherwise, I'll stand behind that. Sometimes words hurt more, then a punch to the gutts!

See this is the problem with society. Abused women are terrified to step forward for fear of not being believed. I don't care how many lies MM has told, it's not fair to discredit her abuse.

Yes, guys that can beat up a woman are capible of murder! How many of these abuse cases end in muder?

Shannon Martin &#8207;@ShannonMartinTV 1m1 minute ago Brampton, Ontario
Meneses says her ex, Mark Smich, "I'm not going to say he was horrible. I'm not going to say he was amazing"

 

[JPC]

Just tweeted by @ShannonMartinTV:

View attachment 92600View attachment 92601

Smich looks nothing like this now.

She looks so young.

 

[Skibunny]

Shannon Martin &#8207;@ShannonMartinTV 1m1 minute ago Brampton, Ontario
Meneses says her ex, Mark Smich, "I'm not going to say he was horrible. I'm not going to say he was amazing"

MM is still afraid of what she says about MS. He must have had total control over her, and she probably had no opinion of her own about anything at that time, because she wouldn't have been allowed. Having your own opinion and thinking for yourself are very dangerous qualities in an abusive relationship, probably would result in a beating. I don't think she is yet able to say the words "It was a horrible time in my life, and I am glad that its over." JMO

 

[Tealgrove]

She looks so young.

She was and still is...that's the point. This is not a worldly woman. This is a girl with "issues". She was the youngest of the lot and I think that people are forgetting that. Even DM called her a child.

MOO

 

[musicaljoke]

Just tweeted by @ShannonMartinTV:

View attachment 92600View attachment 92601

Smich looks nothing like this now.

Does she look happy to you? A Mona Lisa smile perhaps. The eyes are not smiling. Her brow looks strained behind that "smile for the camera" expression. imo

 

[Tealgrove]

MM is still afraid of what she says about MS. He must have had total control over her, and she probably had no opinion of her own about anything at that time, because she wouldn't have been allowed. Having your own opinion and thinking for yourself are very dangerous qualities in an abusive relationship, probably would result in a beating. I don't think she is yet able to say the words "It was a horrible time in my life, and I am glad that its over." JMO

I posted on another thread that I guessed that MM may have been in fear of her life if she had gone to the Police with the knowledge that she had. A beating perhaps, but I think she was worried about a lot more. I believe that more today than the day I posted it. I would have been terrified to go to Police if it had been me.

 

[Mikala]

I think that MM heard from Smich that DM was arrested. I think she said she saw it on the news to make it look like she confronted him..but I think someone contacted Smich and told him DM was arrested. I still think it was Smich that pulled the trigger and he was wanting the gun so he could get rid of the evidence. I also think MM knew that he wanted the gun..and told her about it. The gun was a surprise to all of us on WS until the opening crown statement. I think MM is still worried she might get charged like CN did. So far MM is lying about a lot of things and I can't figure out why? I also think that the gun wouldn't be buried too far from Smich's...she testified that he didn't have a car or a licence. ALL MY OPINION.

For what it's worth, I also think it was Smich who pulled the trigger. What I don't understand in all of this is why Smith isn't somehow required to reveal the location of the gun?

 

[Inspector_North]

For what it's worth, I also think it was Smich who pulled the trigger. What I don't understand in all of this is why Smith isn't somehow required to reveal the location of the gun?

He would just deny there is a gun. Both BD and especially MM are questionable sources of truth. They were the only two that claim MS told him he buried it. No one claimed to actually see the gun.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Just tweeted by @ShannonMartinTV:

View attachment 92600View attachment 92601

Smich looks nothing like this now.

I bet it pained him to have to wear a tux...what would his gangsta buddies have thought. OH the humanity!

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Shannon Martin &#8207;@ShannonMartinTV 1m1 minute ago Brampton, Ontario
Meneses says her ex, Mark Smich, "I'm not going to say he was horrible. I'm not going to say he was amazing"

Not sure what your point is by quoting this?

 

[mimimic]

I think because people celebrate a specific event (ie a successful mission), and the word implies something that can be verified by an outsider (champagne?), whereas happy is a mood that doesn't need to be linked to an event, and can be faked, or brought on by drugs, etc.

Sure, but i think the line would be drawn at either happy or totally exhausted with a slight fretful headache