Bosma Murder Trial 05.10.16 - Midweek Discussion

[Mscree]

Question for the legal people......maybe ABro can help us out.....can TD call a witness who has previously testified for the Crown? I could see this happening if something was presented that made clarification necessary/etc, but my understanding (as limited as it is) would be that he should have asked his questions during his cross examination.....can anyone weigh in on this?

unsure if this has been answered but I have saw tweets from Reporters following this trial that yes they can recall crown witnesses

 

[canadiangirl]

More so than DM's other uncooperative buddies, like SS?

Any chance we want to "stigmatize" her more because she's a woman who flaunted her sexuality and now she needs to be "shamed"?

Don't get me wrong, she's a miserable human being. But she's just one in a line of DM's associates who all failed to do the right thing and lied on the stand. And she's facing her own charges. We don't need to metaphorically stone her; hopefully the justice system takes care of her crimes. It's too bad MB is apparently going to get away with hers.

With all due respect, DM's uncooperative buddies are not flaunting themselves all over social media. I'm a woman. I'm not interested in stigmatizing her. Fact is CN is stigmatizing herself. IMO no one to blame but herself. When you hashtag #welovebjs you're clearly not concerned with your play on words when you literally just dropped a fellatio testimony. People can say little miss innocent is referring to the Blue Jays. I do not buy that for one minute. She is not little miss innocent. I do not feel bad for her if she is shamed. She is doing it to herself.

 

[Georgeo]

<rsbm>
I have similar thoughts in regards to throwing CN under the bus. I wonder if that would trigger some memories from her.

what an interesting thought. Put CN back on the stand and see if her amnesia is gone, leaving crystal clear recollections!

 

[canadiangirl]

IMO The 3rd person doesn't make sense because the Yukon was there. Unless the person drove the Yukon and then walked home or MS and DM came up separately there is no need for a 3rd person.

Why would they have walked home? Why wouldn't they have waited in the Yukon?

 

[ArianeEmory]

With all due respect, DM's uncooperative buddies are not flaunting themselves all over social media. I'm a woman. I'm not interested in stigmatizing her. Fact is CN is stigmatizing herself. IMO no one to blame but herself. When you hashtag #welovebjs you're clearly not concerned with your play on words when you literally dropped a fellatio testimony. People can say little miss innocent is referring to the Blue Jays. I do not buy that for one minute. She is not little miss innocent. I do not feel bad for her if she is shamed. She is doing it to herself.

Your entire post is pretty much proving my point--she deserves to be "shamed", because she made a stupid double entendre and people fell for it, and because she played the sex card in court. None of that has anything to do with her actual criminal culpability and everything to do with her gender. Meanwhile, DM had four or five women on the hook at once, but even then we tend to blame the women who fell for it, or else we just make little jokes about him. But CN gets the scarlet letter treatment.

Again, not defending her, and if anything I think people obsessed with her social media are playing right into her hands. I just like to be as objective as possible about these crimes, and that means being gender-blind. Which in turn means weeding out our cultural bias towards "*advertiser censored* shaming", because her sexual behavior has NOTHING to do with the murder of Tim Bosma.

 

[Mscree]

Why would they have walked home? Why wouldn't they have waited in the Yukon?

Then what did they do drop them home before heading to the hanger? I believe LE believed it at first because of the following vehicle the Yukon however wouldn't it make more sense to drop them at the end of the lane way instead of them arriving on foot? Do you not believe the police have searched and gone through everything with a fine toothed comb? Look at everything they have found, still no evidence of a third person. Why wouldn't they be with them Dm and Ms discussing the preplanned theft? It was the two of them no third person sorry I'm not buying into it jmo

 

[ArianeEmory]

Then what did they do drop them home before heading to the hanger? I believe LE believed it at first because of the following vehicle the Yukon however wouldn't it make more sense to drop them at the end of the lane way instead of them arriving on foot? Do you not believe the police have searched and gone through everything with a fine toothed comb? Look at everything they have found, still no evidence of a third person. Why wouldn't they be with them Dm and Ms discussing the preplanned theft? It was the two of them no third person sorry I'm not buying into it jmo

Exactly. There's no evidence of a third person. No relevant texts, no third person on the hangar video, no third person during the pickup of MM in the morning. If people want to spend mental energy on "but there's no proof there WASN'T a third person", it's their brain cells, not mine.

 

[canadiangirl]

Your entire post is pretty much proving my point--she deserves to be "shamed", because she made a stupid double entendre and people fell for it, and because she played the sex card in court. None of that has anything to do with her actual criminal culpability and everything to do with her gender. Meanwhile, DM had four or five women on the hook at once, but even then we tend to blame the women who fell for it, or else we just make little jokes about him. But CN gets the scarlet letter treatment.

Again, not defending her, and if anything I think people obsessed with her social media are playing right into her hands. I just like to be as objective as possible about these crimes, and that means being gender-blind. Which in turn means weeding out our cultural bias towards "*advertiser censored* shaming", because her sexual behavior has NOTHING to do with the murder of Tim Bosma.

When I refer to "shamed" it has nothing to do with her gender though or "*advertiser censored* shaming".. Nothing to do with sex at all in fact. Everything to do with her flaunting herself on social media. By flaunting I'm referring to her suggestive posts in reference to her testimony. (let's take sex out of the equation completely and focus on the Rubix cube pic for example). It doesn't matter WHAT she is posting. IMO she is sending a message. To me it feels like "Haha you fools. Look what I've got away with".
The Instagram posts are clearly on purpose.

 

[JuneBug67]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-trial-what-happens-now-1.3574185

At least we will not be guessing what TD is trying to prove: he will provide an opening statement. Thank you: clarity!

Now I've got Alanis Morissette stuck in my head...what is it with the CanCon sound track of this trial? We've had Corey Hart, Burton Cummings and now Alanis. At least nobody is really saying sorry, so we can leave Bieber out of it, thank god.

 

[Georgeo]

Just like KH in my opinion.

just like KH. She is as sick as that other female who the Crown was famously known to have "made a deal with the devil" with.

 

[Stratocaster]

One thing that still makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.....DM and MS clearly spent some time together, presumably the two of them, alone, going over a detailed plan about what was to happen on the test drives. Murder, incineration, disappeared with out a trace. I find it hard to comprehend that.

 

[ABro]

Some people on WS don't like it when you bring up a 3rd person. Even though LE clearly stated this themselves and then said after arrests were made there was no longer an immediate danger to the public. I'm not sure why all the hostility regarding a 3rd person or how is so definitive there was not someone else. People seem to want hard evidence or proof of facts but I've yet to see any either way. JMO

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...rd_suspect_exists_lead_investigator_says.html

I just find it weird how websleuthers think, based on nothing, they know more than the detectives who put together this case.

I'm all for critiquing experts -- if it's done with facts as opposed to just feelings that you know more than they do.

 

[ArianeEmory]

When I refer to "shamed" it has nothing to do with her gender though or "*advertiser censored* shaming".. Nothing to do with sex at all in fact. Everything to do with her flaunting herself on social media. By flaunting I'm referring to her suggestive posts in reference to her testimony. (let's take sex out of the equation completely and focus on the Rubix cube pic for example). It doesn't matter WHAT she is posting. IMO she is sending a message. To me it feels like "Haha you fools. Look what I've got away with".
The Instagram posts are clearly on purpose.

You're kind of losing me by saying it's not about sex but then using the word "suggestive".

Are you okay with AM flaunting his tattoo on SM, or have we all decided he's just a good guy even though he lied to police in the beginning and tried to cover for DM?

It's late and I'm going to let this go either way. Again, CN is a miserable waste of humanity. So much so that seeing her get this much attention is a bummer.

 

[Georgeo]

More so than DM's other uncooperative buddies, like SS?

Any chance we want to "stigmatize" her more because she's a woman who flaunted her sexuality and now she needs to be "shamed"? This is what makes me uncomfortable about the negative "fan clubs" who become obsessed with people like Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias, far beyond the level of interest they would show for a male who committed the same crime.

Don't get me wrong, she's a miserable human being. But she's just one in a line of DM's associates who all failed to do the right thing and lied on the stand. And she's facing her own charges. We don't need to metaphorically stone her; hopefully the justice system takes care of her crimes. It's too bad MB is apparently going to get away with hers.

you are right ArianeEmory, CN and SS and the rest of the slimy crew should all be charged with something for thir lies and non-cooperation. Gender shouldn't make any difference.

 

[E-coaster]

I've never posted on here but have been a long time reader since Tim was reported missing. First I want to say that there's lots of excellent insight on here by everyone so a job well done.

Anyways I was reading old news articles and looking back at this quote from Millard's old lawyer is interesting to me now that Millard has Pillay and won't call any evidence. http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/23/killer-video-for-bosma-accused

It's fascinating to look back on that from 2013 to now as we watch the trial unfold. I hope tomorrow we can start getting closer to the truth but who knows how much of it will truly be honest.

I find it hard to believe that DM defense team didn't even try to present some kind of plausible reason that there was a stolen truck in the hanger. "out in the open" is all we heard. I guess the defense expects the jury to just assume that MS brought it there? Almost to this point a 'he said, she said' story except 'he said nothing, she said nothing'.

 

[Georgeo]

When I refer to "shamed" it has nothing to do with her gender though or "*advertiser censored* shaming".. Nothing to do with sex at all in fact. Everything to do with her flaunting herself on social media. By flaunting I'm referring to her suggestive posts in reference to her testimony. (let's take sex out of the equation completely and focus on the Rubix cube pic for example). It doesn't matter WHAT she is posting. IMO she is sending a message. To me it feels like "Haha you fools. Look what I've got away with".
The Instagram posts are clearly on purpose.

Notice when CN was leaving court after her own bail hearing (with her mom) age had sunglasses and a black hood. Her face was exposed. At this trial she is completely standing out as a ludicrously covered up female with no skin showing. Necessary? No. Attention seeking? Very much so.

She he is asking for attention!!! And the social media posts? She is totally bragging.

 

[canadiangirl]

You're kind of losing me by saying it's not about sex but then using the word "suggestive".

Are you okay with AM flaunting his tattoo on SM, or have we all decided he's just a good guy even though he lied to police in the beginning and tried to cover for DM?

It's late and I'm going to let this go either way. Again, CN is a miserable waste of humanity. So much so that seeing her get this much attention is a bummer.

Ok so suggestive is an inappropriate word. But by posting a pic of a Rubix cube is she not "suggesting" something? She's being suggestive but you're taking the word literal. It was disclosed this was her nickname and the reason behind it. Because of her ability to solve one blah blah blah. And tada. Testimony is over and it pops up on her Instagram. But not bold... Subtle in the background. So that was just an innocent post? Not suggestive of anything?

As for AM I actually was the one who noticed the tattoo picture on Facebook and posted about it here. Since you're asking my opinion on it, not I'm not okay with it and no I don't think he's a good guy. He's being just as suggestive. I actually commented and wondered if it was a message. But who knows with all these players in this case. (and when I say players I'm not referring to sex either) lol

 

[Oreck]

If anyone has a copy of Martha Stewart's magazine article "Working With Smaller Spaces", please forward it to Dellen.
I'm sure he would appreciate it about now.

 

[canadiangirl]

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...rd_suspect_exists_lead_investigator_says.html

I just find it weird how websleuthers think, based on nothing, they know more than the detectives who put together this case.

I'm all for critiquing experts -- if it's done with facts as opposed to just feelings that you know more than they do.

I suppose if you're pointing out this article as a statement of fact we should all overlook this part in the same article?

Millard’s girlfriend, whose identity is protected by a court-ordered publication ban, is not believed to be involved, the detective said.

“Millard’s girlfriend has been cleared of that,” he said.

And just to add since you did. Not once have I said I know more then anyone else, let alone a professional. I don't believe expressing an opinion that differs from someone else's means you're critiquing an expert. Please correct me if I'm wrong. You seem to enjoy trying to do that for some reason.

 

[ABro]

I suppose if you're pointing out this article as a statement of fact we should all overlook this part in the same article?

Millard&#8217;s girlfriend, whose identity is protected by a court-ordered publication ban, is not believed to be involved, the detective said.

&#8220;Millard&#8217;s girlfriend has been cleared of that,&#8221; he said.

I'm not pointing that article out as anything more than a reference to the third suspect issue.

Police investigations are fluid. They are always going to get some initial stuff wrong just like journalism on breaking events is always going to make mistakes.

Help me understand why you still believe there is a third suspect. What in your view points in that direction?