Bosma Murder Trial 05.11.16 - Day 47 - Smich Defence commences

[brightii]

So if we are to believe MS's testimony today, many here seem to believe his response to TB's murder was normal behaviour or at least an understandable reaction to an extraordinarily traumatic situation, if I'm interpreting some comments correctly, IMO.

Perhaps then I am the more abnormal person among us, as I would expect that a reasonable and more believable response in the circumstance would be first to escape if possible from the murderer, and to call police to report the murderer at my first opportunity if I had a cell phone with me so that the murderer could be apprehended and pose no more threat to anyone else including me, IMO. MS did have a cell phone, and he was driving alone in the Yukon allegedly behind DM and therefore, IMO, MS did have the opportunity to either escape and get to a police station or at least call the police, IMO.

MS not only did neither, he didn't report the murder to police ever - even later when DM was in custody - even anonymously - and MS had also instructed MM not to tell the police anything at the time of his own eventual arrest, and that is not IMO an understandable or excusable reaction to a murder, IMO. I cannot imagine that I would have risked putting myself in harm's way by assisting a murderer at a dark and isolated location such as DM's farm or at his hangar - especially knowing DM had the Eliminator and what that was going to be used for - because I know myself, and that prospect would have terrified me, IMO, because I'd think very naturally that I could well be DM's next murder victim, IMO. MS did not seem to seek protection from DM at any time later either, IMO.

Yeah, so maybe I'm odd, but I hope there are more people like me who would actually respond to the shock of a murder by telling the police what they knew and by not assisting the murderer to evade suspicion or capture, IMO. If I didn't, for some inexplicable reason report a murder that I knew had happened and by whom, even it it may have implicated me in a planned truck theft, that colossal failure of human decency would haunt me for the rest of my days and IMO I'd deserve to feel stressed or suffer from PTSD. I can't believe that most people would have reacted as MS says he did, and I sure hope most wouldn't, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[SuperSpy]

I don't recall Arthur testifying? What am I missing?

He didn't. But I bet he gave a statement, under oath, to police.

 

[EspressoBean]

They don't need both circumstantial evidence and forensic evidence to convict MS: he can be convicted on circumstantial evidence alone.

I'm not questioning what evidence is required, only responding to another post.
The post I was replying to said that they saw that there was sufficient circumstantial and forensic evidence to easily convict MS of first degree murder. I was asking what sufficient forensic evidence they felt there has been against MS.

But I don't see there being enough circumstantial evidence to clearly convict. Possibly, but there is a lot of reasonable doubt at this point.

 

[Arnie M]

Adam Carter:
-----Smich says he had seen the gun before with Millard. "I know that it was a gun that Dellen had." He says he knows the make now -- a Walther PPK
---- Smich says he'd seen it before, and handled it when Millard first bought it. He says he took a picture with it on his blackberry we've seen in court.
---- He says he shot the photo inside his car.


Something Hinky if Smich is talking about this photo .... it is taken inside a building , not a car
.

 

[swedie]

TB's truck was washed outside the hangar that night. I guess LE didn't find TB's blood/DNA evidence on the asphalt...and no video evidence of anyone washing the asphalt after the fact either? Laundry detergent and bucket usage? MOO.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

I am not believing everything said by MS. I'm taking it in to allow for some doubt on what I had believed happened.
I can see the circumstantial evidence but I"m wondering what forensic evidence you feel so far that would be sufficient evidence to convict of first degree? He has certainly presented a reasonable believable narrative of what could have happened. I don't know that the Crown has given enough evidence against MS to counter the reasonable doubt he has given. MS doesn't need to prove his innocence. It is the Crown that needs to prove guilt.

i very much agree with your comments...well said

 

[sleuther76]

I still want to know how the body was moved around if MS didn't help. A dead body would be fairly heavy for one person to move around. Especially lift as high as that hatch was with the Eliminator sitting on a trailer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's actually easier than one would think. Firefighters do this all the time when they rescue unconscious victims from a building ... so much so that it is actually called a fireman's carry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireman's_carry

I wouldn't call it easy, but it is definitely doable.

 

[Claroon]

So if we are to believe MS's testimony today, many here seem to believe his response to TB's murder was normal behaviour or at least an understandable reaction to an extraordinarily traumatic situation, if I'm interpreting some comments correctly, IMO.

Perhaps then I am the more abnormal person among us, as I would expect that a reasonable and more believable response in the circumstance would be first to escape if possible from the murderer, and to call police to report the murderer at my first opportunity if I had a cell phone with me so that the murderer could be apprehended and pose no more threat to anyone else including me, IMO. MS did have a cell phone, and he was driving alone in the Yukon allegedly behind DM and therefore, IMO, MS did have the opportunity to either escape and get to a police station or at least call the police, IMO.

MS not only did neither, he didn't report the murder to police ever - even later when DM was in custody - even anonymously - and MS had also instructed MM not to tell the police anything at the time of his own eventual arrest, and that is not IMO an understandable or excusable reaction to a murder, IMO. I cannot imagine that I would have risked putting myself in harm's way by assisting a murderer at a dark and isolated location such as DM's farm or at his hangar - especially knowing DM had the Eliminator and what that was going to be used for - because I know myself, and that prospect would have terrified me, IMO, because I'd think very naturally that I could well be DM's murder's next victim, IMO. MS did not seem to seek protection from DM at any time later either, IMO.

Yeah, so maybe I'm odd, but I hope there are more people like me who would actually respond to the shock of a murder by telling the police what they knew and by not assisting the murderer to evade suspicion or capture, IMO. If I didn't, for some inexplicable reason report a murder that I knew had happened and by whom, even it it may have implicated me in a planned truck theft, that would colossal failure of human decency would haunt me for the rest of my days and IMO I'd deserve to feel stressed or suffer from PTSD. I can't believe that most people would have reacted as MS says he did, and I sure hope most wouldn't, IMO.

All MOO.

I agree. The only way he could have "gone along" is if he had been deeply indoctrinated to the point of not wanting to seem like a wuss. I agree his fear of DM should have been greater than his loyalty to DM. IMO

 

[EspressoBean]

He didn't. But I bet he gave a statement, under oath, to police.

I don't know what would make you think he lied to police, though. We don't even know that he gave a statement or that he had much to lie about. No one has ever said that there wasn't a gun in the toolbox, from what I have heard.

 

[Claroon]

It's actually easier than one would think. Firefighters do this all the time when they rescue unconscious victims from a building ... so much so that it is actually called a fireman's carry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireman's_carry

I wouldn't call it easy, but it is definitely doable.

Thanks that makes a lot of sense esp. seeing the photo of doing it from a laying down position.

 

[SuperSpy]

What I'd like to know is who fueled up the incinerator and when.

The incinerator is propane powered. The tank is integral to it. To fuel it up, you have to tow it to service station that sells propane for cars and fill it up. Did DM do this days before the mission ? Was MS along ? Did AM do it ? Did JV do it ?

When was the incinerator moved from the hanger to the farm ? What ever became of DM asking for a generator, in order to run the incinerator at the farm where there was no power ?

I can't imagine the DM's friends knew DM had an incinerator and didn't ask what he was using it for. They knew. Way more people than DM and SM need to go to jail for a while. I hope the crown goes back and charges people with theft, perjury, accessory to murder, working on stolen property, drugs, drug dealing, tampering with evidence and helping a person communicate with someone under a court order not to.

 

[sleuther76]

So if we are to believe MS's testimony today, many here seem to believe his response to TB's murder was normal behaviour or at least an understandable reaction to an extraordinarily traumatic situation, if I'm interpreting some comments correctly, IMO.

Perhaps then I am the more abnormal person among us, as I would expect that a reasonable and more believable response in the circumstance would be first to escape if possible from the murderer, and to call police to report the murderer at my first opportunity if I had a cell phone with me so that the murderer could be apprehended and pose no more threat to anyone else including me, IMO. MS did have a cell phone, and he was driving alone in the Yukon allegedly behind DM and therefore, IMO, MS did have the opportunity to either escape and get to a police station or at least call the police, IMO.

MS not only did neither, he didn't report the murder to police ever - even later when DM was in custody - even anonymously - and MS had also instructed MM not to tell the police anything at the time of his own eventual arrest, and that is not IMO an understandable or excusable reaction to a murder, IMO. I cannot imagine that I would have risked putting myself in harm's way by assisting a murderer at a dark and isolated location such as DM's farm or at his hangar - especially knowing DM had the Eliminator and what that was going to be used for - because I know myself, and that prospect would have terrified me, IMO, because I'd think very naturally that I could well be DM's murder's next victim, IMO. MS did not seem to seek protection from DM at any time later either, IMO.

Yeah, so maybe I'm odd, but I hope there are more people like me who would actually respond to the shock of a murder by telling the police what they knew and by not assisting the murderer to evade suspicion or capture, IMO. If I didn't, for some inexplicable reason report a murder that I knew had happened and by whom, even it it may have implicated me in a planned truck theft, that would colossal failure of human decency would haunt me for the rest of my days and IMO I'd deserve to feel stressed or suffer from PTSD. I can't believe that most people would have reacted as MS says he did, and I sure hope most wouldn't, IMO.

All MOO.

Remember this was a murder that he was scared he would be implicated in. Nobody knows what they would do under that amount of stress, let alone the belief that you may be framed or implicated. I don't condone not going to the police, but I can kind of understand what was running through his mind.

 

[canadiangirl]

also points to a lawyer's advice about how to look better come D-day.

Agree somewhat. He took the advice but the reports on his studies were glowing. That part didn't need to happen, especially if he was only doing this because he HAD to...

 

[swedie]

So if we are to believe MS's testimony today, many here seem to believe his response to TB's murder was normal behaviour or at least an understandable reaction to an extraordinarily traumatic situation, if I'm interpreting some comments correctly, IMO.

Perhaps then I am the more abnormal person among us, as I would expect that a reasonable and more believable response in the circumstance would be first to escape if possible from the murderer, and to call police to report the murderer at my first opportunity if I had a cell phone with me so that the murderer could be apprehended and pose no more threat to anyone else including me, IMO. MS did have a cell phone, and he was driving alone in the Yukon allegedly behind DM and therefore, IMO, MS did have the opportunity to either escape and get to a police station or at least call the police, IMO.

MS not only did neither, he didn't report the murder to police ever - even later when DM was in custody - even anonymously - and MS had also instructed MM not to tell the police anything at the time of his own eventual arrest, and that is not IMO an understandable or excusable reaction to a murder, IMO. I cannot imagine that I would have risked putting myself in harm's way by assisting a murderer at a dark and isolated location such as DM's farm or at his hangar - especially knowing DM had the Eliminator and what that was going to be used for - because I know myself, and that prospect would have terrified me, IMO, because I'd think very naturally that I could well be DM's murder's next victim, IMO. MS did not seem to seek protection from DM at any time later either, IMO.

Yeah, so maybe I'm odd, but I hope there are more people like me who would actually respond to the shock of a murder by telling the police what they knew and by not assisting the murderer to evade suspicion or capture, IMO. If I didn't, for some inexplicable reason report a murder that I knew had happened and by whom, even it it may have implicated me in a planned truck theft, that would colossal failure of human decency would haunt me for the rest of my days and IMO I'd deserve to feel stressed or suffer from PTSD. I can't believe that most people would have reacted as MS says he did, and I sure hope most wouldn't, IMO.

All MOO.

Don't forget, allegedly MS was involved in LB's murder, he had that hanging over his head for not going to LE. MOO. If he went to LE identifying DM, DM could turn on him and name MS as LB's murderer. MOO.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Adam Carter:
-----Smich says he had seen the gun before with Millard. "I know that it was a gun that Dellen had." He says he knows the make now -- a Walther PPK
---- Smich says he'd seen it before, and handled it when Millard first bought it. He says he took a picture with it on his blackberry we've seen in court.
---- He says he shot the photo inside his car.


Something Hinky if Smich is talking about this photo .... it is taken inside a building , not a car
.

what makes you so sure of that?

 

[SuperSpy]

I don't know what would make you think he lied to police, though. We don't even know that he gave a statement or that he had much to lie about. No one has ever said that there wasn't a gun in the toolbox, from what I have heard.

The police have been trying to trace the gun all along to see who's fingerprints are on it. As far as I remember, this is the first time that someone has admitted they physically saw the gun. Before this the only thing people saw was the toolbox that supposedly contained the gun.

 

[Nosey Parker]

I'm not questioning what evidence is required, only responding to another post.
The post I was replying to said that they saw that there was sufficient circumstantial and forensic evidence to easily convict MS of first degree murder. I was asking what sufficient forensic evidence they felt there has been against MS.

But I don't see there being enough circumstantial evidence to clearly convict. Possibly, but there is a lot of reasonable doubt at this point.

I actually didn't say easily convict. I said I saw enough circumstantial and forensic evidence for me to find him guilty of 1st. I consider cell pings, texts, etc. forensic.

 

[EspressoBean]

The police have been trying to trace the gun all along to see who's fingerprints are on it. As far as I remember, this is the first time that someone has admitted they physically saw the gun. Before this the only thing people saw was the toolbox that supposedly contained the gun.

But no one has denied the gun was there. That seems to be the understanding that the toolbox contained the gun. It's not something I have heard that has been disputed or put it into question at this trial.

 

[Inspector_North]

If there is one person on the peripheral I want to be held accountable, it's SS.

What a slime bucket. He knew exactly where the truck came from when he exchanged texts on the 9th. He also told DM that his FiL called CS.

Hope his extended employment with Rabbit was worth it. Rabbit seems to reward and keep those types close, SS, LW_2 and CN. All folks that were heartless on the stand.

MOO

 

[spanishshara]

While IMO I think MS is still scum, CN could've taken some lessons from MS in regards to attempting to be honest on the stand and not smug.