Bosma Murder Trial 05.11.16 - Day 47 - Smich Defence commences

[ADAWG]

It's actually easier than one would think. Firefighters do this all the time when they rescue unconscious victims from a building ... so much so that it is actually called a fireman's carry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireman's_carry

I wouldn't call it easy, but it is definitely doable.

I am familiar with fire mans carry as I have done many times over the years in wrestling and martial arts. However, an unconscious body is far different than a dead body where rigor mortis has set in. I remember 2 of us trying to move a German Shepard that had passed on at a friends house and that was extremely difficult.

 

[Dutchman]

Wow so much to absorb. Gotta let this all sink in, before I weigh in. Hard to read with tears in my eyes.

 

[sleuther76]

I am familiar with fire mans carry as I have done many times over the years in wrestling and martial arts. However, an unconscious body is far different than a dead body where rigor mortis has set in. I remember 2 of us trying to move a German Shepard that had passed on at a friends house and that was extremely difficult.

Agreed but rigor mortis doesn't set in right away and does not impact the entire body at the same time. It typically starts between two and six hours following death and begins with the eyelids, neck and jaw. There is a chance poor TB hadn't been dead long enough for rigor mortis to have kicked in at that point. All I am trying to prove is that it would be possible for one person to undertake this task.

ps ... note to self, never get in a physical fight with you

 

[andreww]

If that is the case, he'll tell the court where it is buried. But I bet that he handed it off to someone.

Im actually wondering if he was successful in selling it? The story about burying it saves ratting out another friend.

 

[EspressoBean]

I actually didn't say easily convict. I said I saw enough circumstantial and forensic evidence for me to find him guilty of 1st. I consider cell pings, texts, etc. forensic.

Apologies. I wasn't meaning to misquote you.
You had said that there is sufficient circumstantial and forensic evidence to convict him of first degree murder. I'm just not seeing the sufficient forensics on MS. He is admitting to being all of the places that the cell pings have shown him but with what he has testified that happened with his story fitting with the details known about the case so far, I am just wondering what you are seeing as sufficient forensic evidence for a 1st degree murder charge. I believed he was guilty but his testimony, has given me some room to doubt and I haven't been able to come up with enough evidence to counter the reasonable doubt he has created.

 

[Nosey Parker]

Apologies. I wasn't meaning to misquote you.
You had said that there is sufficient circumstantial and forensic evidence to convict him of first degree murder. I'm just not seeing the sufficient forensics on MS. He is admitting to being all of the places that the cell pings have shown him but with what he has testified that happened with his story fitting with the details known about the case so far, I am just wondering what you are seeing as sufficient forensic evidence for a 1st degree murder charge. I believed he was guilty but his testimony, has given me some room to doubt and I haven't been able to come up with enough evidence to counter the reasonable doubt he has created.

The only area in which we disagree, I think, is that you now see reasonable doubt and I don't. I might, after cross, but not yet.

 

[EspressoBean]

Agreed but rigor mortis doesn't set in right away and does not impact the entire body at the same time. It typically starts between two and six hours following death and begins with the eyelids, neck and jaw. There is a chance poor TB hadn't been dead long enough for rigor mortis to have kicked in at that point. All I am trying to prove is that it would be possible for one person to undertake this task.

ps ... note to self, never get in a physical fight with you

I agree that it would be possible. TB was not a large or heavy man. DM is very tall so he could more easily reach up. Also, MS has said that the body was wrapped in a sheet which would also make Tim's body easier to move and lift.
MS might have helped but I think it would be possible for DM to do on his own.

 

[dar107]

But this is the first time that someone actually saw a gun in that toolbox, right ? AM didn't. CN didn't. Furthermore, MS tells us he broke the lock on it, so assuming nobody locked it up after, it was unlocked when DM and CN had it.

There are lots of nuances to the testimony that MS gave today. Funny he didn't mention CN more.

If I recall correctly Hagerman testified the toolbox was locked when DM gave it to him. As for CN there's still so much more to hear. Yes everything does not ring 100 percent true. Going to be a very telling few days to come.

 

[EspressoBean]

The only area in which we disagree, I think, is that you now see reasonable doubt and I don't. I might, after cross, but not yet.

I'm not sure how reasonable doubt could be disputed. Whether you believe his story or not, he has created a situation that fits with evidence which is something that creates what the court sees as reasonable doubt. I don't think the Crown has shown evidence to say that his story could not be true and that he was in the truck at the time of the murder or that he knew a murder, not a theft was going to happen.
I am waiting to see if Cross can show otherwise and remove the doubt by showing that this was not what had occurred.
I am in no way saying that my opinion is that MS is not guilty of first degree murder. I am just less convinced and from a legal perspective, I don't see there being enough evidence to counter his testimony at this point. Cross examination is when this would be expected to happen for there to be sufficient evidence to convict, imo.
jmo

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I called it yesterday, stating that MS was going to be driving the Yukon when DM pulled the trigger.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...16-Midweek-Discussion&p=12542243#post12542243

Just sayin'...

You're not the first
This has been on the table since MM said "she called MS around 9pm and he said he couldn't talk because he was driving". However my theory of MS duct taping TB was squashed today.

 

[SomeITGuy]

Let them both rot in hell.

Sorry, just can't find sympathy for what this guy was part of, guilty conscience or not. A little late foe purple shirts, haircuts, tears and coming clean (which is up for certainly up for debate).

Random thought, not up to date on this thread so if it's been mentioned, please forgive me.

I, at first never thought anything of MS' purple shirt today. When I read Jug's post it dawned on me- Purple was/is the colour they used for the "remembering Tim" banners. Interesting, trying to connect with the victim's family on a personal level during the most heart wrenching testimony.

 

[Miranda16]

One thing I noticed today that I haven't seen discussed (apologies if I missed; have only partially read the thread):

MS said he was only expecting the backpack of drugs. If so, why did he text this:
Smich (Meneses phone) texts Michalski: "Tell him were [sic] its at and ask him to bring it to me with the other thing."

What is the 'other thing'. A certain toolbox, perhaps?
Plus the toolbox had drugs in it at parties we've heard. So if Smich asked for drugs, the toolbox wouldn't necessarily have been a surprise.

Personally I'm not convinced by the testimony today. There's likely a core of truth to it, but three years of thinking/coaching and 3 months of testimony have allowed him and defense to hone a mostly coherent sounding story (which portrays himself in the best possible light in the circumstances)

I still think his texts are damning. It will be hard for him to sustain the story under cross-examination IMO.

Now I really wonder what evidence the crown has against MS in the LB case. Imagine if he gets off with a lesser charge in the TB case (premised on lack of knowledge of DM's true plan and capability for violence) - and then we find out that there is strong evidence that he was at least an accessory with LB! At least his overall sentence could be lengthened in that case?

 

[Nosey Parker]

I'm not sure how reasonable doubt could be disputed. Whether you believe his story or not, he has created a situation that fits with evidence which is something that creates what the court sees as reasonable doubt. I don't think the Crown has shown evidence to say that his story could not be true and that he was in the truck at the time of the murder or that he knew a murder, not a theft was going to happen.
I am waiting to see if Cross can show otherwise and remove the doubt by showing that this was not what had occurred.
I am in no way saying that my opinion is that MS is not guilty of first degree murder. I am just less convinced and from a legal perspective, I don't see there being enough evidence to counter his testimony at this point. Cross examination is when this would be expected to happen for there to be sufficient evidence to convict, imo.
jmo

I get you. His testimony, which is what has created reasonable doubt at this stage, IMO, has to be balanced against his credibility. For me, that is a big fail. I think we may have to beg to differ.

 

[SuperSpy]

So I wonder what went down in the truck between DM and TB.

Sorry to bring it up, but how does a driver pull a gun on a passenger sitting 2 feet away and get a shot off without the passenger getting the gun from the shooter ? The passenger would have 2 hands, the driver only 1. The driver would have to shoot with his left hand. It would be too awkward to shoot with the right and the gun would be very close to the victim.

Kind of hard to think that the driver would get the gun out and aim it without the passenger seeing it.

 

[SuperSpy]

When was the incinerator cleaned out and by whom ? Did DM and CN just move the incinerator or was there some cleanout as well. Where did the bones go ?

 

[dar107]

I can't imagine the DM's friends knew DM had an incinerator and didn't ask what he was using it for. They knew. Way more people than DM and SM need to go to jail for a while. I hope the crown goes back and charges people with theft, perjury, accessory to murder, working on stolen property, drugs, drug dealing, tampering with evidence and helping a person communicate with someone under a court order not to.

With all the things and projects and BS DM had going on I do believe his friends believed his reasons such as pet cremation garbage burning etc. I highly doubt that anyone else will be charged unless there is some major perjury that has happened during the trial. But it could happen just unlikely IMO. Hopefully Karma will come full circle to anyone who deserves it. Once DM and MS are sentenced I hope the Bosmas can put this chapter behind them.

 

[EspressoBean]

Random thought, not up to date on this thread so if it's been mentioned, please forgive me.

I, at first never thought anything of MS' purple shirt today. When I read Jug's post it dawned on me- Purple was/is the colour they used for the "remembering Tim" banners. Interesting, trying to connect with the victim's family on a personal level during the most heart wrenching testimony.

Some reporters have said that the shirt was red, including Susan Clairmont. I don't think it was purple as in the colour that Tim's family has attributed to remembering him.
jmo

 

[Errrr]

To be fair... not sure where you live, andreww, but I am pretty rural also and always leave my keys in my car.

I do get the impression that Smich will be angling towards Millard leaving him out of the plan - already we have heard that he wasn't privy to the calls with truck owners.

But he needed the Yukon to follow with the plates and flashlight?

 

[ILoveDateline]

So I wonder what went down in the truck between DM and TB.

Sorry to bring it up, but how does a driver pull a gun on a passenger sitting 2 feet away and get a shot off without the passenger getting the gun from the shooter ? The passenger would have 2 hands, the driver only 1. The driver would have to shoot with his left hand. It would be too awkward to shoot with the right and the gun would be very close to the victim.

Kind of hard to think that the driver would get the gun out and aim it without the passenger seeing it.

I'm still getting way caught up from everything that was reviewed today. I believe SC said DM is left handed, so that may answer part that that for you. IMO.

I'm sure TB was on edge and wondering what the heck was going on but I would never have thought to be on the lookout for a gun if it were me. IMO. Maybe DM said, "what's what over there?" and pointed to make TB look out the window.

 

[EspressoBean]

When was the incinerator cleaned out and by whom ? Did DM and CN just move the incinerator or was there some cleanout as well. Where did the bones go ?

Just some of the many questions that have not yet been answered and possibly may not be answered during this trial.