Bosma Murder Trial 05.11.16 - Day 47 - Smich Defence commences

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I have to give MS at least some credit for manning up and telling his version of what happened that night, but I still think he is a who should spend the rest of his life behind bars. He told the jury what they wanted to hear, and I am guessing that DM’s dogs are going to be all over him like a bad rash in cross.

IMHO, MS is telling some of the truth, perhaps even most of it. I think he is conveniently leaving out crucial details of his involvement. I guess if I was on a first degree murder rap, I, like most of us, would do what I can to avoid life without a chance of parole for 25 years.

That said, a few things really bothering me about today’s testimony:

  • MS says this was only supposed to be scoping out a truck for a potential robbery. They even hide the Yukon so no one can recognize the vehicle or read the plates. But don’t you raise more suspicion, by walking up a long driveway, essentially in the dark, on a Monday night after 9 pm for a test drive, a car nowhere to be found despite being out in a rural area? I know the Tim Horton’s story that was told in front of SB and WDB, but if the plan is to steal the vehicle later that night (or even if it is to steal it at gunpoint and leave Tim unharmed), TB has his phone and can tell police about the calls from the Bate phone. Surely these idiots knew that, so hiding the Yukon was both unnecessary and likely threw up red flags right away? That is why I still believe murder was part of the plan, and it was premeditated. They didn't want anyone to ID their vehicle, because if they liked the truck, TB (and his phone) was never coming back up that driveway.


  • I still don’t understand how the whole “my friend can’t find Tim Horton’s” story (one TH is about two minutes away), finding the “friend” parked in a field and then going out to Brantford didn’t raise red flags with TB. Why not just take the truck up Trinity, across Book, over to Wilson, etc...???? That is assuming TB was still alive, of course. That is why I questions MS’s story of how it all went down. He was the father of a young daughter, who was a mere couple of hundred yards away. Surely, he was cautious of what was playing out and was starting to put the pieces together. Why go for a ride to Brantford unless it was against his will? So they didn’t have to come back to Ancaster, and MS and DM could leave in the Yukon and TB could drive his truck home? But, Tim already knew they were “coming from Toronto.” Ancaster wasn’t exactly out of the way on the way back. It isn’t adding up. Of course, that is assuming MS is telling the truth and he learned of the shooting when they pulled over in Brantford.


  • MS couldn’t move Tim’s body, partly because of his shoulder and partly because he did not want to, but had no problem partying it up in the following days, including at his sister’s wedding, smiling with a cigar hanging out of his mouth. He wasn’t as distraught as he wants everyone to believe. A distraught man would have gone to the police before being arrested in broad daylight a couple of weeks later. He was just well coached today. He is still a d-bag, and even if his account told today is true, he was still involved in a planned robbery that led to a murder.

That said, and as much as it pains to say it, the timelines at the Brantford Bobcat seem to line up. Unless I am mistaken, they pull over at 9:49 and leave around 10:04. Tim’s phone was apparently turned off at 10:02.

I think, for the most part, MS is telling the truth about pulling over on Oak Park. That would give him about 15 minutes to see what had happened (whether he knew the murder was coming or not), change the plates, and leave the scene, discarding the phone out the window.

Speaking of which, how incredibly stupid were these two? With Tim now dead, they throw his phone out a window ONTO THE FREAKING GRASS instead of smashing it to bits and getting rid of it forever? Really? Did they not think it would be found, especially given the news that was sure to hit TV the following day? That the first thing police would do was turn the phone on and trace its last known calls, to see if there was any connection to a missing man 20 minutes away, and that the phone would be tied to the Lucas Bate phone? Did they not think the police would be looking at that right away, and be able to trace its whereabouts? For “career criminals”, these two sure were a couple of ****ups.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions, and I have a feeling we are going to get a lot of answers in the next couple of days. I also think, for whatever reason, CN and some of the players in this motley crew of misfits might be feeling quite nervous this evening. The lies are going to start catching up to some of them very shortly....

I pray for the Bosma family tonight. Even though Tim has been gone for three years, today’s testimony must have hit with the force of a sledgehammer in its finality.

All MOO.

Speaking of which, how incredibly stupid were these two? With Tim now dead, they throw his phone out a window ONTO THE FREAKING GRASS instead of smashing it to bits and getting rid of it forever? Really? Did they not think it would be found, especially given the news that was sure to hit TV the following day? That the first thing police would do was turn the phone on and trace its last known calls, to see if there was any connection to a missing man 20 minutes away, and that the phone would be tied to the Lucas Bate phone? Did they not think the police would be looking at that right away, and be able to trace its whereabouts? For “career criminals”, these two sure were a couple of ****ups.

DM seemed at that point to be a lunatic and not the known Dell as MS said. MS was terrified and confused and had no part in things DM was just now doing: shoot TB, wipe TB's phone, then dispose of it near some fence. So I think they both DM/MS weren't able to master their senses. Of course a big hurdle, if you want to be a criminal.
 
<modsnip>
I think the "swerve" had already happened .... by the time the vehicles are in camera view they are driving on the gravel shoulder (you can see the dust) ..... thought I would mention that.
 
DM seemed at that point to be a lunatic and not the known Dell as MS said. MS was terrified and confused and had no part in things DM was just now doing: shoot TB, wipe TB's phone, then dispose of it near some fence. So I think they both DM/MS weren't able to master their senses. Of course a big hurdle, if you want to be a criminal.

Keep in mind that DM had no idea that Igor saw his 'ambition' tattoo and that police would connect that to him, when they threw TB's phone in the grass. The Lucas Bate phone only corroborated pings off DM's phone after the investigation zeroed in on DM due to the tattoo. Police used the records of the Lucas Bate phone to find Igor, and Igor led them to DM. As far as DM and MS would have believed at the time they discarded TB's phone, they were in the clear, identity wise.
 
Do you think it's possible MS gave this statement to police after his arrest and the crown based their evidence on his statement? It's astounding how his testimony lines up with the evidence.

I think MS told MM what happened that night (parts of it anyway) .... and when MS was arrested she (MM) told police what she knew.
 
The logic why I do not believe MS testimony, and why I think MS was in the truck when TB was shot:
If the original plan was that MS would follow in the Yukon, why did he even walk up the driveway? MS could have stayed in the Yukon, and only then would MS testimony from today be somewhat believable to me.
Anyone have an answer for this?

I would like to add my thoughts to that .... MS said killing DM was not part of the original plan .... they were only supposed to "scope it out" .... fine ..... but in order to make that stick , Mark is going to have to tell the court exactly what the original plan was ..... ie: how were they going to steal the truck after they scoped it out ?

He is in deep trouble if he does not come up with a totally convincing detailed "original plan" (no killing involved) .... and for the life of me I cannot imagine what it could be ..... I am sure they did not have a duplicate key making machine with them ..... and if they were to come back later to winch it into a trailer they would not need to expose themselves to a test drive first.

I hope MS realizes he has some big blanks to fill in if his testimony is to be believed.

I sure do give him credit for his live confession , even if it is biased in his favor much of it sounds authentic.
 
He is in deep trouble if he does not come up with a totally convincing detailed "original plan" (no killing involved) .... and for the life of me I cannot imagine what it could be ..... I am sure they did not have a duplicate key making machine with them .....

MS stated in his testimony that SS (DM's mechanic) had showed them how to start a truck by accessing its hood. Presumably they would go back another night, find TB's truck in his driveway, smash the driver window with a window punch, pop the hood, wire up the start and off they go. You're right though, there really is no need for a test drive unless DM was really 'shopping around' for the right truck to steal, just as one would if he was going to buy it... still, going on a test drive seems like a ridiculously unnecessary risk to take for potentially getting identified as the people who stole the truck.

Incidentally, during cross examination, MS should be asked why they didn't steal IT's truck, which was the first truck they test drove, why they instead skipped over it and chose to possibly steal TB's instead...
 
Heads up folks !! There were far too many broken quotes in today's thread and not one Alert was received on any of them. That is disappointing. A couple of posts had to be removed because it became impossible to figure them out. (Sorry, but Mods do have a life at times).

More courtesy in subsequent threads would be appreciated.

:tyou:
 
Heads up folks !! There were far too many broken quotes in today's thread and not one Alert was received on any of them. That is disappointing. A couple of posts had to be removed because it became impossible to figure them out. (Sorry, but Mods do have a life at times).

More courtesy in subsequent threads would be appreciated.

:tyou:

Must be something wrong on your computer ..... I have been reading every single post on this thread over the past 6 hours and every post (and quote) was just fine.
 
4) the rouse was that the imaginary 3rd person in the Yukon still wanted to go to Tim Horton's so MS was to go into the Yukon and follow DM and TB (who presumably would be navigating them) to Tim Horton's so that that they wouldn't have to go back to the house afterwards. IMO. Gees, sounds so strange now. "why don't you go with so and so, parked there in the lane way without lights on. He's lost and you're going to follow us to Tim Horton's so that we don't have to go back to the house when done with the test drive". Obviously MS knows it's BS. Would my spidisense be going off if I were TB? I don't know. JMO. .

This is the part that I am not buying. It just doesn't work. This would have anybody including TB wondering what is up and I don't think they would have come up with a plan like this because of exactly that.
 
This is the part that I am not buying. It just doesn't work. This would have anybody including TB wondering what is up and I don't think they would have come up with a plan like this because of exactly that.

In my opinion if it really happened the way MS said it did, TB would be relieved if only one person was left in the vehicle with him, not more apprehensive. MS leaving TB's truck would only serve to let TB's guard down, if anything, I think, rather than making him more nervous (especially since MS was sitting in the back; anybody would be apprehensive about a stranger sitting behind them, and be relieved when that stranger is no longer sitting behind them)...
 
True, the Crown obviously didn't think it significant, or it would have been included in the report. But, Pillay's making a point of it, and getting Plaxton to admit it could well be the same vehicle, seems to suggest he (Pillay) considers it very important indeed -- perhaps ( in light of today's testimony) to try to establish that MS was in the truck with DM and TB.

As for Bullman's field, I only read two sets of tweets today, but only saw references to MS saying they had parked "on a side road" and no mention of a field. Did he actually say "field?" Otherwise there could be doubt cast on Bullman (jr's) sighting as being of the TB truck and the Yukon. Though IMO at a certain point coincidences multiply beyond believability.

I was going to post about this in the early days of the trial but didn't. Now that we are discussing it again, I will post. I have a friend who lives on Trinity Road, just south of the Bosmas. He drives the same truck (black) as the Bosma Truck. It is entirely possible that this is the truck that was seen on CCTV that day.

I agree that MS's testimony about where the Yukon was parked made me sit up and notice. The only thing I was thinking was that there is this small pull off area at the entrance to the field. Maybe that's what he was talking about as to where they parked. Entirely possible that they turned into the field to turn around which is when they were seen by Mr. Bullman. Just a thought.
 
This is the part that I am not buying. It just doesn't work. This would have anybody including TB wondering what is up and I don't think they would have come up with a plan like this because of exactly that.
Well, as MS claims, it wasn't the plan. It was off the cuff by DM. IMO.
 
They hadn't entered the hangar yet at that point though. I think it's possible they changed their clothes at the farm with the extra ones they supposedly brought and threw their other clothes in the incinerator. Was LE ever able to find a red hoodie and an orange long sleeved t-shirt among either of their possessions? Probably not. Although we did not hear about this during the trial.

And yes...I do not believe that MS did not help DM load TB's body into the incinerator and therefore also had to change his clothes.

MOO

This is another interesting point that hopefully will be addressed. Smich has now testified that he went nowhere near the body or the incinerator. So why would he change clothes? What happened to his clothes?
 
I would like to add my thoughts to that .... MS said killing DM was not part of the original plan .... .

It should have been. :)

Edited to add: I know you meant TB Arnie but I saw your typo and couldn't resist it. LOL
 
Must be something wrong on your computer ..... I have been reading every single post on this thread over the past 6 hours and every post (and quote) was just fine.

Things look fine to me too.
 
.

MS said after May 6th he was trying to put distance between himself and DM .... and was trying to do it slowly so that DM did not get suspicious .... I am thinking that is why he and MM moved to her sisters place . Plus the surveillance pictures of MS certainly show a trouble and downcast looking guy so maybe he is telling the truth that he was shocked at what happened and afraid of DM

Hard to say , it would also be fair to suggest he was troubled because he anticipated he would be arrested too.

I keep hoping MS is telling the truth and he proves it in his remaining testimony.
 
This is another interesting point that hopefully will be addressed. Smich has now testified that he went nowhere near the body or the incinerator. So why would he change clothes? What happened to his clothes?

Do you know in fact that MS did change clothes? The hangar video is in black and white so it is difficult to tell what colour the hoodie he was wearing was.
 
If anyone knows, what is the correct pronunciation of Dungey? Hubby says its Doon gay, the news reporters seem to say Dunn jee. TIA.
 
.

MS said after May 6th he was trying to put distance between himself and DM .... and was trying to do it slowly so that DM did not get suspicious .... I am thinking that is why he and MM moved to her sisters place . Plus the surveillance pictures of MS certainly show a trouble and downcast looking guy so maybe he is telling the truth that he was shocked at what happened and afraid of DM

Hard to say , it would also be fair to suggest he was troubled because he anticipated he would be arrested too.

I keep hoping MS is telling the truth and he proves it in his remaining testimony.

I'm on the same fence. I am hoping MS is telling the truth and I'm waiting for the cross examinations before I decide.
 
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