Bosma Murder Trial 05.11.16 - Day 47 - Smich Defence commences

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Crown didn't find it significant though... May be they had some extra info... And now MS is saying they went straight to Bullmann Sr.'s field.
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True, the Crown obviously didn't think it significant, or it would have been included in the report. But, Pillay's making a point of it, and getting Plaxton to admit it could well be the same vehicle, seems to suggest he (Pillay) considers it very important indeed -- perhaps ( in light of today's testimony) to try to establish that MS was in the truck with DM and TB.

As for Bullman's field, I only read two sets of tweets today, but only saw references to MS saying they had parked "on a side road" and no mention of a field. Did he actually say "field?" Otherwise there could be doubt cast on Bullman (jr's) sighting as being of the TB truck and the Yukon. Though IMO at a certain point coincidences multiply beyond believability.
 
Probably because he had cleaned himself up a bit and changed his clothes.

MOO

They hadn't entered the hangar yet at that point though. I think it's possible they changed their clothes at the farm with the extra ones they supposedly brought and threw their other clothes in the incinerator. Was LE ever able to find a red hoodie and an orange long sleeved t-shirt among either of their possessions? Probably not. Although we did not hear about this during the trial.

And yes...I do not believe that MS did not help DM load TB's body into the incinerator and therefore also had to change his clothes.

MOO
 
In talking to a friend that has been there today, they have said that MS has seemed sincere and regretful. Whether he is or isn't, we can't know but that is how they have described their experience in seeing and hearing him on the stand.

I was there today. Yes, MS's voice was nervous, shaky and quiet most of the time. Occasionally he'd pull himself together to answer a question, but it was visible it was wearing on him. It was my experience there was nothing I caught that made me think he was being insincere. Facial expressions and posture, seemed regretful. A far cry from when CN was on the stand. I get he would have been coached and advised on how to present himself and how much or how little to say. That said, I'm only sharing what I saw... and from that, feeling like he is telling the truth. Is he guilty of his roll leading up to and following the shooting; absolutely. Still fills me with disgust, especially seeing the pain and hurt of the Bosma family today.
 
Sorry to come back to this, but it is eating away at me. Put yourself in TB’s position that night, God forbid, if only for a few minutes.

The Bosmas want to sell their truck. Desperately. It is costing them a fortune and, as SB says, they could really use the cash. Money was getting a little tight.

So, the afternoon of the 6[SUP]th[/SUP], TB is extremely excited about the prospect of selling the truck. He even appears agitated when it looks like the potential buyer won’t be coming.

Then they call. Coming from Toronto, about an hour away. SB is getting skeptical, wondering if TB should even go on the test drive. I mean, who the hell comes from Toronto for a test drive at 9:00 on a Monday night?

So, TB gets a phone call at 9:05 and walks out from his garage. SB and WDB also see what is going on. Late on a spring night, two men are walking up their long driveway, in the dark, no car in sight. At least one of the men, the shorter one, seems quiet, a little sketchy. Their friend, they say, dropped them off and went to Tim Horton’s.

The three of them hop in the truck and head down the long driveway. SB probably has a bit of an uncomfortable feeling watching the truck pull away. But, hey, nothing bad ever happens around here, right? It’s Ancaster.

So, they turn on Trinity, DM brakes and says their friend can’t find the Tim Horton’s. But they don’t go back to TB’s to meet the friend; instead maybe DM says “He says he is on Book Road, right off Trinity. Do you know where that is?” Maybe Tim says, “Yeah, it’s 100 yards up the road, the next street over.”

So they get to the laneway/field where the Yukon is. It is not idling, no lights are on, even in the dark? Where is this friend? Instead, the Yukon is just parked in the middle of the field, like someone had left it there on purpose. Like it was hidden.

So, by now, TB has no idea something is wrong? That he isn’t piecing this together, even though he can pretty well see his house from where he sits? The same house where his beautiful little girl is sleeping, and where his wife is probably talking to his tenant at this very minute? He could walk over in five minutes. The tall guy tells the short guy to get into the Yukon and “you guys” follow us so we can go our separate ways after the test drive is over.

You know, I have just come all the way from Toronto on a Monday night for a test drive. I am obviously quite interested. If I like the truck, I’m not going to come back to your place and haggle with you over price, or try to hammer out a deal, like most potential buyers would.

Everything is happening so fast now. TB is starting to have serious doubts, maybe even starting to worry a little, but he decides to continue the test drive with these two strangers, and heads north on Trinity towards Brantford. One guy is driving his truck, the other following. It is dark, and there are plenty of roads in the immediate area where the driver could give the truck a little gas, let it go a little, to see how it performed. But no, he continues on to Brantford.

And, despite any uneasiness he may be feeling, does he secretly call his wife or a friend so they can listen to the conversation inside the truck? Does he text her to tell her he is all right, they are just heading out towards Brantford, and he just wants her to know where he is headed? Does TB, an avid church goer and keeper of the faith, text anyone to voice his uneasiness about what is going down? No. Nothing. Smich follows all the way to Brantford. He never hears a bang, never sees a truck swerve (except at Bobcat, which, with the naked eye, doesn’t look like much of a swerve at all), doesn’t see or hear a window shatter, as a shot is fired. He just sees DM getting out of the vehicle in Brantford, putting what appears to be a gun in the satchel. But isn't it pretty dark there at that time of night? Aren't the headlights and taillights off by this time?

That’s what MS wants you to believe. Smell that? There’s some serious bull**** in there, folks.

IMO, I still think TB was shot before they got to the Yukon, either by MS from behind or from the side by DM, with MS incapacitating TB in some way. They go to the field where no one can see them. It is completely dark by now, so they put Tim’s body in the back of the truck, and cover it with a tarp. MS gets in the Yukon, and both vehicles leave, seen by Bullmann as they exit his father’s property. Both trucks pass the Super Sucker at 9:20, the same time MM is texting MS. He is replying to her texts while driving, which explains why he is three seconds behind when they go by the Super Sucker. He then turns his phone off at 9:20. Driving north on Trinity/Hwy 52 in the dark, no one is going to see the blown out passenger side window in TB's truck, but they need to get these plates changed soon. Eventually SB is going to phoning police, and they'll be looking for the truck with TB's plates. .

Bobcat is where they pull over to switch the plates, allowing both of them to settle down, catch their breath and make plans to head to the farm. But of course, the morons think nothing of businesses these days installing cameras, so what do they do? Park right in front of Brantford Bobcat and implicate themselves even further...

Just MOO…..
 
I was there today. Yes, MS's voice was nervous, shaky and quiet most of the time. Occasionally he'd pull himself together to answer a question, but it was visible it was wearing on him. It was my experience there was nothing I caught that made me think he was being insincere. Facial expressions and posture, seemed regretful. A far cry from when CN was on the stand. I get he would have been coached and advised on how to present himself and how much or how little to say. That said, I'm only sharing what I saw... and from that, feeling like he is telling the truth. Is he guilty of his roll leading up to and following the shooting; absolutely. Still fills me with disgust, especially seeing the pain and hurt of the Bosma family today.

I dunno, MS's testimony was too conveniently exculpatory, to me.

Just wait until S&P and the Crown gets up there to pick his story apart. There's a lot that doesn't make sense, most of all his reaction to this supposedly terrifying and surprise event. Does it really make sense that he discovers a murder and is immediately steady enough to mess with screws and a screwdriver and get TB's plates off and DM's red Ram plates on? Who can do that kind of fine work when they are rattled out of their mind? Why did MS not just drive away in the Yukon once he was alone in it? Did he really act like someone that has just experienced the shock of his life?
 
I was there today. Yes, MS's voice was nervous, shaky and quiet most of the time. Occasionally he'd pull himself together to answer a question, but it was visible it was wearing on him. It was my experience there was nothing I caught that made me think he was being insincere. Facial expressions and posture, seemed regretful. A far cry from when CN was on the stand. I get he would have been coached and advised on how to present himself and how much or how little to say. That said, I'm only sharing what I saw... and from that, feeling like he is telling the truth. Is he guilty of his roll leading up to and following the shooting; absolutely. Still fills me with disgust, especially seeing the pain and hurt of the Bosma family today.

Welcome elevate_me :welcome:

Thanks for giving us your first hand perspective of MS's demeanor in court today. While I do believe that MS has a conscience, I also believe that a lot of what he was saying today was what he wants the Bosma family, his own family and the jury to believe happened rather than what actually did happen. I think he was much more involved in the planning and execution of this crime than he seems to want to admit.

MOO
 
I'd be interested to read if you get the chance. I find it very odd that 2 borders (both USA and Mexico) would just wave through a Dodge Ram truck towing a large trailer carrying a Jeep in it and not ask for any type of ownership or registration of any of the vehicles in question.

And at the time, TB truck was posted everywhere to be on the lookout. Even border crossings. I have no reason to believe border officials were not scrutinizing every Ram that went through there considering Ancaster is very close to the border. JMO

The border officials would ask their primary questions and if and only if the answers to those arose suspicion, a secondary inspection could take place. At that point registration may or may not be looked at, but it would not be standard operating procedure.

While I agree that TB's truck was all over the news and SM, DM was not planning on crossing the border that week, and you under estimate the amount of traffic at a land border and the number of "look outs" border officials get on a daily basis if you think every "Ram" was going to be scrutinized.

A quick search pulled up US Customs procedures

"When driving your personal vehicle across the border you will make a verbal representation to the Customs official about whether you have any goods to declare. If you don’t, you will be allowed to continue on across the border. If you do have something to declare, you will need to pay duties and taxes on the items before you are allowed to proceed. If you say you have nothing to declare, but the Customs Official questions your honesty, you will be pulled aside for a secondary inspection of your vehicle."

from http://www.ezbordercrossing.com/the-inspection-experience/clearing-customs/#.VzQBMGPdG8w
 
First time post. I might be exhausted, so bear with me! If MS knew of the plan, why did he go up the Bosma's driveway? Why not wait in the Yukon and follow the Ram from the road?
WELCOME! That is an excellent question and what makes me believe MS's claim that DM changed the mission as it progressed.
:greetings::greetings::greetings:
 
I was there today. Yes, MS's voice was nervous, shaky and quiet most of the time. Occasionally he'd pull himself together to answer a question, but it was visible it was wearing on him. It was my experience there was nothing I caught that made me think he was being insincere. Facial expressions and posture, seemed regretful. A far cry from when CN was on the stand. I get he would have been coached and advised on how to present himself and how much or how little to say. That said, I'm only sharing what I saw... and from that, feeling like he is telling the truth. Is he guilty of his roll leading up to and following the shooting; absolutely. Still fills me with disgust, especially seeing the pain and hurt of the Bosma family today.

I'll jump on the welcome band wagon! Really appreciate your first hand experience.....I can't imagine what sitting through that testimony and having to witness the reaction of the Bosma family was like. I was reading tweets and had to step away.....

I want justice for TB. I think we all do. But I am leaning towards believing MS's testimony....I know it's somewhat "convenient", but for whatever reason it sounds believable to me. Your assessment of his testimony only strengthens that. And I totally agree about CN. There are no words for her.

As I have said, I will refrain from making a final decision until all the evidence is in, but today's testimony has caused me to reevaluate my position......his cross may do the same. ALL MOO
 
The border officials would ask their primary questions and if and only if the answers to those arose suspicion, a secondary inspection could take place. At that point registration may or may not be looked at.

While I agree that TB's truck was all over the news and SM, DM was not planning on crossing the border that week, and you under estimate the amount of traffic at a land border and the number of "look outs" border officials get on a daily basis if you think every "Ram" was going to be scrutinized.

A quick search pulled up US Customs procedures

"When driving your personal vehicle across the border you will make a verbal representation to the Customs official about whether you have any goods to declare. If you don’t, you will be allowed to continue on across the border. If you do have something to declare, you will need to pay duties and taxes on the items before you are allowed to proceed. If you say you have nothing to declare, but the Customs Official questions your honesty, you will be pulled aside for a secondary inspection of your vehicle."

from http://www.ezbordercrossing.com/the-inspection-experience/clearing-customs/#.VzQBMGPdG8w

Thank you. But according to many posters and I believe DM himself the truck was rare. And IIRC the race was in May. So they wouldve been crossing soon. This was why many assumed they needed this particular truck ASAP.

Not sure how Mexico border crossing would work. Or on the way home. That's a lot of risk IMO

As for myself, I guess I just have bad luck. It's a 50/50 chance my car gets inspected when I cross and they ask me for my registration. I've been crossing for years. Never lied or been caught lying and have no criminal record. My assumptions were that someone towing a trailer with a jeep inside would be questioned more thoroughly since I often see border officials with clipboards in hand opening up trailers when all I want to do is go shopping and it's holding up the line lol
 
True, the Crown obviously didn't think it significant, or it would have been included in the report. But, Pillay's making a point of it, and getting Plaxton to admit it could well be the same vehicle, seems to suggest he (Pillay) considers it very important indeed -- perhaps ( in light of today's testimony) to try to establish that MS was in the truck with DM and TB.

As for Bullman's field, I only read two sets of tweets today, but only saw references to MS saying they had parked "on a side road" and no mention of a field. Did he actually say "field?" Otherwise there could be doubt cast on Bullman (jr's) sighting as being of the TB truck and the Yukon. Though IMO at a certain point coincidences multiply beyond believability.

I just searched Bullman on the Tweet spreadsheet and the descriptions are quite different. I will add, on Google maps if I have the right spot, there is a partial little driveway into the field.Maybe it's farmerspeak.

Carter says, "Bullman says on May 6 he saw two vehicles pull out of his father's driveway going down towards Brantford"
Hayes says, "He saw 2 cars pull out of his dad's place"
Clairmont says, "Saw dark pickup pull out of his father's field, another vehicle behind it."
BBM
 
Thank you. But according to many posters and I believe DM himself the truck was rare. And IIRC the race was in May. So they wouldve been crossing soon. This was why many assumed they needed this particular truck ASAP.

Not sure how Mexico border crossing would work. Or on the way home. That's a lot of risk IMO

As for myself, I guess I just have bad luck. It's a 50/50 chance my car gets inspected when I cross and they ask me for my registration. I've been crossing for years. Never lied or been caught lying and have no criminal record. My assumptions were that someone towing a trailer with a jeep inside would be questioned more thoroughly since I often see border officials with clipboards in hand opening up trailers when all I want to do is go shopping and it's holding up the line lol

The truck wasn't rare. Finding one for sale was rare because they are a good truck...usually. Apparently TB had nothing but trouble with his...hence the reason why it was up for sale.

I do not believe the axle info is on a vehicle registration permit. Or the engine type, regular gas vs diesel. So that would not be an issue. The colour is however so that would be. If he was even asked to produce it. And if he was, do the border patrol officers actually go up to the windshield to cross reference a VIN? If they did, he would have had it covered though.

DM had been getting advice on how not to get hung up at the border. He was using an open trailer this time so that he would not automatically be pulled over for inspection. An open trailer and an open bed pickup truck, red, not black like the one belonging to the missing man, would probably not raise a lot of suspicion. He would have had a legitimate reason for crossing those borders. He would have had the proof on an open trailer. Did we ever hear of people crossing the border in Ram pick up trucks having a particularly rough time of it during the week that TB was missing? Pretty sure border patrol would not be looking that carefully at Ram trucks 3 weeks after he was missing. By that time, if it was crossing the border, it would have already done so in their minds.

DM believed that he had an answer for anything and could talk himself out of everything. Probably could and did about a lot of things. Being wealthy sometimes has it's perks. Certainly halted the investigation of a Bobcat whose last GPS co-ordinates were at a rich man's hangar. We still have no idea what prompted a police officer to "tag" DM but whatever it was, it apparently did not get him arrested. His father's "suicide" was not investigated or questioned any further after he had given his statement. He took risks all the time. Had one or more illegal weapons in his house, bought drugs by the bulk. I bet it would have been a complete rush for him to get across those borders with that truck. And I have no doubt that he truly believed he'd have no problem doing so.

MOO
 
...Instead, the Yukon is just parked in the middle of the field, like someone had left it there on purpose. Like it was hidden...
They go to the field where no one can see them. It is completely dark by now, so they put Tim’s body in the back of the truck, and cover it with a tarp. MS gets in the Yukon, and both vehicles leave, seen by Bullmann as they exit his father’s property...

He just sees DM getting out of the vehicle in Brantford, putting what appears to be a gun in the satchel. But isn't it pretty dark there at that time of night? Aren't the headlights and taillights off by this time?...

Bobcat is where they pull over to switch the plates, allowing both of them to settle down, catch their breath and make plans to head to the farm.
Just MOO…..

You're not the only skeptic. I want to add my 2 cents. Regarding the Yukon--not in the middle of the field. I just researched the tweets spreadsheet and it's referred to as "his father's field," "his dad's place," and in another tweet, "his father's driveway." If I look on Google maps I see a little driveway from the field with some pine trees. I guess you're saying they did something there and then pulled him into the field to move him. There was someone, I believe, a neighbour who heard noise leading the police to search the pond.

I agree, Tim should think it's odd the lights wouldn't be on. And yes, the sun had set at 8:28 so would be dark.

With your theory, they would have had to have shot him in the truck, because the blood got in the cab somehow.

Re: seeing DM putting gun in satchel and lights being off, most cars have time delay lights. I thought about that before when I inspected the videos. They are on for 13 seconds after stopping before going off.

Re: heading to the farm, unless they are really bad navigators, there was no reason for them to turn south off Paris Road. Could have kept going up to the farm. IMO

So many theories. MS's is too basic in some ways.
 
Did any of the tweets imply how DM supposedly shot TB once he picked up the gun from the Yukon? ie. did MS imply DM was outside the vehicle or back in the vehicle. If outside, on which side?

Implied it happened inside the vehicle before he stepped out. No report of MS hearing gunshot. MS was shocked to see TB had been shot
IMO
 
I was firmly in the MS is guilty of at least second degree murder camp.....
Now I don't know what to think.

Same here, up until today I thought MS did the shooting from the backseat of TB's truck. MS's testimony today does correlate with the evidence, but there are some issues. Gunshot residue was found on the ceiling of the truck on the drivers side and the passenger side, which suggests at least two shots fired from guns in different positions. The shot that created the residue above the passenger side could have been from a gun held by someone in the back seat, if they were reaching forward into the front of the cab to take the shot.

3. Where's the gun?

This is a problem, why would MS not have co-operated with police by showing them where he buried the gun, after being arrested, or at least within the past THREE YEARS he has been sitting in jail. Surely his lawyer would have told him to do so?? Could it be because if police dug where MS told them to, they would discover not one gun, but the '2' guns that DM texted MH were in the toolbox?

What I think we can all agree on is that MS's testimony has created debate and has some questioning his guilt, while other remain firm in their belief of his guilt.....I would imagine that the same thing is occurring with the jury. All MOO.

Yes, probably. DM would be insane not to testify now if he is given the chance. He could claim that he pulled the gun on TB to steal the truck and TB fought back and the gun 'went off' or whatever, which would line up with MS's testimony enough to be plausible, although if that were the case MS surely would've asked DM what happened and DM would have told him he shot TB by accident, but MS did not testify that DM told him it was an accident, so that will be a problem for DM if he chooses to testify to that.

Personally I have always thought MS did the shooting from the back seat, but until I hear from DM I won't be able to come to a firm conclusion. The pulling over and MS getting into the Yukon certainly is convenient for him, what a fortunate coincidence that he just happens to not be in the truck when the shooting happens... I have always felt that MS wanted to commit a murder in order for his rapping to be authentic. It's very important in the 'gangsta rap' community to be for real, and not a poser. They believe that even though for legal reasons you can't rap specifically about the people you kill, the fact that you really killed someone will come out authentically in your raps. So as sick as it sounds, I think MS wanted to commit a murder to help his 'career' as a rapper, and DM, already having experienced killing people and disposing of their bodies, and wanting a truck, worked out a deal with MS so that both would get what they want and get away with it.
 
Absolutely, utterly senseless.

IMHO, DM is scum of the earth (I know there are far better descriptors), a psychopath, who believes he is entitled to anything he desires. He wanted that truck, but he also thoroughly enjoyed stealing anything he wanted, and he also discovered that he thoroughly enjoyed killing LB and his own father. In his world, all that matters is DM.

How sick, how utterly tragic and senseless.

Perfect Analogy
 
DM had been getting advice on how not to get hung up at the border. He was using an open trailer this time so that he would not automatically be pulled over for inspection.

I agree, getting the truck across the border would not have been difficult, the VINs were going to be swapped, even the tricky one under the windshield, the truck was going to be painted. He could've driven it to Vancouver and crossed there where nobody was thinking about the Bosma murder, and since he was going to Baja it would not be a suspicious route.
 
They didn't. DM put the body into the incinerator himself after MS said he couldn't.

That is the way I understood it too ..... MS even went so far as to say DM was ""huffing and puffing"" while lifting it in.
 
IIRC, MS told BD that DM got the gun he wanted. I don't think there was ever an explicit statement that MS had a gun. He wanted one, but I don't think he had one

If MS didn't have a gun of his own, why was he showing BD the zombie bullets online that he was planning to buy?

It doesn't sound like MS had $2200 for his own.

It could've been his payment from DM for helping steal the $35,000 woodchipper, or the bobcat, which he seems to be claiming he got no compensation for, which is very hard to believe...

Now his line about learning the model after hearing about in this trial is a stretch. I'm sure he looked at it when took his photo, and I believe Walther PPK was cleary marked on it.

It's absolutely ridiculous that Mr. 'Say10' didn't know the gun was a Walther PPK. This statement alone seriously damages the credibility of his entire testimony. And it was a completely superfluous statement, there was no need for him to say that he didn't know what kind of gun it was. I guess he was trying to impart on the jury that he is a naive person with no experience with guns whatsoever, but that's just plain ludicrous given the evidence we've heard of his rapping about using a ".380" caliber weapon (ammo the PPK just happens to use, and the same as the cartridge found in the truck), so I seriously doubt the jury would believe it.
 
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