Bosma Murder Trial 05.18.16 - Day 51

[brightii]

FWIW ... An interesting Walrus magazine article about rap lyrics used as evidence in trials in Canada, with mention of this trial ...

http://thewalrus.ca/rap-on-trial/


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This is a really good article. I don't think MS's rap lyrics and performances should have been brought into this trial. As the article suggests, rappers take on a persona and yet it is not the persona on trial, it is the person. There is a difference.

I believe MS is guilty, but my opinion was not based at all on his raps. If convicted, could MS appeal the conviction by saying that the introduction of the rap evidence was prejudicial to him? Maybe this type of issue was all sorted out between the lawyers with legal arguments before? I have no idea. While MS's rap persona does nothing to convince me of his guilt, I do think it could go against him with some members of the jury.

All MOO.

 

[canadiangirl]

One of the things I'm questioning is if MS pulled the trigger, why did DM take over cleaning up HIS mess and not included him in such things as, dumping TB's truck at his mother's house. Going back to the farm to move the incinerator. Giving him the DVR. All things he took CN along for INSTEAD of MS. I'm sorry I don't care who "my brother" is. No one is that gracious to clean up HIS mess alone. Especially a murder and especially not DM IMO.

 

[brightii]

In the absence of the LB case, and under MS's story where he had no foreknowledge of murder, you would think DM would wonder if MS would continue to follow.
So I agree with you that the fact that DM trusted MS to follow at the minimum seems to suggest that the murder plan was known by MS.
However one scenario for DM to trust an 'unaware' MS would be if DM's huge ego allowed him to believe that the bond between them was rock solid and/or a belief that MS would never risk prison time for theft/drug offences he was already guilty of.

If if we add in LB (assuming MS is complicit as charged) then DM would be absolutely confident that MS would follow (I.e. He seems not to have anticipated MS's testimony in the Bosma trial)

bbm both scenarios are what I believe.

All MOO.

 

[Dutchman]

Can't say that I have. but I have never had to fight for my life either. The neighbor testified two vehicles coming out of the lane. There's no reason to dismiss his testimony. ( MS f'ed up ) some how. Think that comment would be a response to more than, just not listening to his gf. . And there is a bit of a time lapse. And there was talk of duct tape. Jmo.

 

[Miranda16]

bbm both scenarios are what I believe.

All MOO.

Me too

 

[spanishshara]

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...wyer-slow-to-the-point-in-smich-s-cross-exam/

This pretty much describes how I feel as cross unfolds. I think Susan captured the feeling quite well.

 

[brightii]

:tyou: again to all those who posted tweets today! I just realized that when I posted my thanks before I also posted my opinion which some or many people may not agree with, so I want our tweet team to receive their props without any strings attached.

 

[brightii]

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...wyer-slow-to-the-point-in-smich-s-cross-exam/

This pretty much describes how I feel as cross unfolds. I think Susan captured the feeling quite well.

I actually felt bad for NS when I read a tweet where he said to MS something to the effect of, I know I'm not the best questioner. Poor guy is doing his best to unsettle MS and having a difficult time of it. DM is likely the author of NS's questions.

All MOO.

 

[spanishshara]

So is NS suggesting that DM was dangling the Cadillac carrot over MS's head for over a year? You'll get the Cadillac when I get my diesel truck that you help me steal? Which was also an issue because neither MS nor MM could register the vehicle in their name without a license. So DM would have let them use it, uninsured, while it was still under his name? So basically, this pretend deal was for DM to lend MS the Cadillac to drive to Calgary? And if they had gotten into an accident, with no insurance, ownership or license between them, would DM have told LE that they stole it from him? Not much of a deal for MS.

:waitasec:

MO

I agree that it's definitely not much of a deal for MS but I could totally see him falling for it. And I could totally see DM not caring if it's under his own name and MS can't drive. Because the both of them have already showed us they don't care about the law or consequences - whether it's drugs or theft. IMO DM will string someone along/offer them anything to try and manipulate them.

 

[Claroon]

You have to wonder then what the witness who described two vehicles pulling out his dad's field saw. The brain can fill in information and shape memories, but as Smich tells it he only could have seen the Yukon pulling out.

I think as DM waited and then did a U-turn it may have looked like he was pulling out of the spot. IMO

 

[Tiggertoo]

I'm only on page 16 but maybe DM told Sachak to keep MS on the stand for all these days as some form of punishment. Whatever it is, the line of questioning is brutal to read.
MOO

 

[mimimic]

One of the things I'm questioning is if MS pulled the trigger, why did DM take over cleaning up HIS mess and not included him in such things as, dumping TB's truck at his mother's house. Going back to the farm to move the incinerator. Giving him the DVR. All things he took CN along for INSTEAD of MS. I'm sorry I don't care who "my brother" is. No one is that gracious to clean up HIS mess alone. Especially a murder and especially not DM IMO.

I am not one of the people who think MS is any better/less evil than DM. I have wondered about D cleaning up for M and thought it unlikely (but only if it was not D's plan) and as you wrote now i see more (imo) that maybe DM would clean it, if it was the plan originally and also because it is "his" truck now. his mess

 

[brightii]

I agree that it's definitely not much of a deal for MS but I could totally see him falling for it. And I could totally see DM not caring if it's under his own name and MS can't drive. Because the both of them have already showed us they don't care about the law or consequences - whether it's drugs or theft. IMO DM will string someone along/offer them anything to try and manipulate them.

I agree. What gave the story about the Cadillac credence to me was that MS's mother mentioned that MS said he'd no longer be getting it after DM's arrest, in her statement to police. Then when MS denied having told her that - it was pretty convincing to me that MS was lying and very unlikely that his mother was lying to police. I also thought NS made a very good point about MS calling everyone else liars, or they must be mistaken, or saying he couldn't remember things that pointed to MS's own guilt. When MS suggested his mother's statement to police was questionable, that truly illustrated NS's point I think.

All MOO.

 

[Claroon]

Perhaps the focus should be away from the truck theft and onto the murder. He could have taken TB's key, kicked TB out of the truck, and taken off. There would be little more in the way of ID than what SB and friend saw.

There is something about wanting to murder someone that was the real mission IMO. And not just murder them, incinerate them. Remember, DM talked about the mission in phases complete.

IMO the real mission was disposal of a body. Perhaps the truck was a consolation prize. So the question is why? I'd love to see the business plan for burning bodies somewhere or a contract for how he would charge and get payment. IMO.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I agree. What gave the story about the Cadillac credence to me was that MS's mother mentioned that MS said he'd no longer be getting it after DM's arrest, in her statement to police. Then when MS denied having told her that - it was pretty convincing to me that MS was lying and very unlikely that his mother was lying to police. I also thought NS made a very good point about MS calling everyone else liars, or they must be mistaken, or saying he couldn't remember things that pointed to MS's own guilt. When MS suggested his mother's statement to police was questionable, that truly illustrated NS's point I think.

All MOO.

I missed this part, but I don't have the patience for Sachak anymore. That does sound sketchy.

That said--what is the actual significance of the Cadillac to DM's defense? They aren't denying that a theft was planned, so what does it matter if MS was compensated for it with a car? Aren't they teetering on the edge of admitting DM was going to pay MS for his part in the murder? How does that help DM?

(I've probably missed something obvious.)

 

[Inspector_North]

I don't believe MS's story, but he is doing a good job of sticking to it.

Sachak tried to go for it at the end of a day. I would assume it's a strategy to do that at the end of a day when the witness is tired and can be tripped up. I wonder if that will happen tomorrow?

The crown has had plenty of time to develop their questioning strategy. Hopefully they can show that both are guilty of first as I believe they are. MS may be a clever lad, but he was a messed up angry clever lad three years ago.

MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

I missed this part, but I don't have the patience for Sachak anymore. That does sound sketchy.

That said--what is the actual significance of the Cadillac to DM's defense? They aren't denying that a theft was planned, so what does it matter if MS was compensated for it with a car? Aren't they teetering on the edge of admitting DM was going to pay MS for his part in the murder? How does that help DM?

(I've probably missed something obvious.)

One angle that I got with the car was that MS was planning on going out west in a few weeks, and the car was what was going to take him and MM there. He was in a rush to get his car payment, therefore a motive to get DM a truck quick.

I think this was hinted at in DM's letters when he asked CN to make a copy of a FB picture of someone working on a vehicle in the hanger. DM's team also hinted it during their questioning of AM, or maybe SS.

MOO

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

I agree with a few here that the longer this goes on, the less I believe Smich mainly because it seems improbable that you just shoot a guy out of nowhere for a truck after trying to get a truck for a year. DM may have shot him, but I don't buy that MS had no idea it was going to happen.

I also think the constant mentions of DM being the guilty one by MS hurts MS credibility. Makes it looks like he's trying to pin it on DM rather than just telling the truth.

 

[Inspector_North]

I agree with a few here that the longer this goes on, the less I believe Smich mainly because it seems improbable that you just shoot a guy out of nowhere for a truck after trying to get a truck for a year. DM may have shot him, but I don't buy that MS had no idea it was going to happen.

I also think the constant mentions of DM being the guilty one by MS hurts MS credibility. Makes it looks like he's trying to pin it on DM rather than just telling the truth.

Shooting him in the truck has always been a mystery. DM had to make emergency arrangements in the morning to cancel his three workers. He had to juggle the cleanup with his property finance meetings. I don't think either planned to kill him the way it happened, but both played a dangerous criminal game that night, and both are responsible. Both knew about the gun(s).

MOO

 

[brightii]

One of the things I'm questioning is if MS pulled the trigger, why did DM take over cleaning up HIS mess and not included him in such things as, dumping TB's truck at his mother's house. Going back to the farm to move the incinerator. Giving him the DVR. All things he took CN along for INSTEAD of MS. I'm sorry I don't care who "my brother" is. No one is that gracious to clean up HIS mess alone. Especially a murder and especially not DM IMO.

What I think is beyond belief is that after TB was murdered by madman DM how easily MS went along with DM to pick up the Eliminator at the farm, and then once MS set his eyes on that dreadfully rare piece of equipment, MS was not absolutely mortified about it! It just makes no sense to me that if MS had no clue what that incinerator was used for (i.e. LB?) that MS wouldn't ask DM, "What the hell are you planning to do with that?" No, instead MS apparently just went along and cleaned out the victim's truck for DM while TB was being incinerated. Goodness, are we to expect that this was all just a minor glitch in an otherwise successful mission?

MS's story that he was in shock, stressed, paranoid and afraid doesn't reconcile with his detached actions after TB's murder - at least not for me ... at all. Maybe there are legitimate psychological explanations for MS's behaviour and if so, TD better put a very convincing expert on the stand to attest to it for MS, IMO. I would have found it easier to believe MS had he said that he felt so threatened by DM that if he didn't comply with DM's demands he was afraid that he'd be his next victim, murdered and incinerated. If he suddenly says that in the days to come though, it will be too late because I really will think his defence team is reading here for ideas. Two weeks ago I was still unsure about MS's guilt and wrote a post about his rap lyrics and violent video and I made reference to Stephen King's fiction in my post. (May 5th thread post # 168). I didn't think then nor do I now that MS's interest in rap is relevant to his trial or any indication of his guilt, but I do believe his actions are.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...sma-Murder-Trial-Weekend-Discussion-13/page12

All MOO.