Bosma Murder Trial 05.18.16 - Day 51

[brightii]

If anyone's bothering to keep score, I'm inching away from believing MS didn't know the plan, although I can't articulate why. I suppose the highly rehearsed nature of his testimony. That said, just by skimming the threads at the end of the day, Sachak is still frying my brain. As many of us have said lately, I could change my mind tomorrow. Don't envy those jurors. (Well, I say that, but I'm pretty sure they're both going down for murder regardless.)

Unfortunately I still can't visualize the road/timeline stuff you guys are talking about, but I get the gist it's significant.

A lot of things don't make sense to me, but I suspect 99% of them are due to Sachak's unique, um, lawyering style. (I don't mean "I don't understand", as in the road stuff, I mean "they don't make sense", as in they make DM look worse or simply confuse issues hopelessly.)

I agree that DM's defence is doing nothing to help him and ironically they are only helping the Crown to convict MS, IMO, and I know that's not their objective ... Or is it? Maybe DM accepts a conviction is in his future and is refusing to go down alone?

All MOO.

 

[LibTech]

I still wonder if it was just a freakishly sick and twisted spontaneous decision DM made after MS was in the Yukon.

I am thinking the same thing. IMO, I think MS is telling the truth when he says that he was not in the truck when TB was shot and that he did not know that DM was going to kill TB. I do not think that they planned together to steal a truck during a test drive and kill the owner. I just don't buy it. There is plenty of evidence that they planned to steal a truck together. Less so that the murder was a planned and deliberate act carried out by both of the accused.

If the plan was to kill the owner, what about the Igor incident. I can't believe they would kill someone in the middle of the day in the city. IMO they were scoping with the intention to come back at night to steal the truck. Same with TB but DM was getting desperate. He had been looking for a truck to steal for a year. He saw an opportunity with TB and went for it. It could very well have been a spontaneous decision on DMs part.

Does MS know more than what he has testified? For sure. Is he guilty of first degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt? IMO, there just isn't enough evidence to prove that.

All MOO of course!

 

[Tealgrove]

If anyone's bothering to keep score, I'm inching away from believing MS didn't know the plan, although I can't articulate why. I suppose the highly rehearsed nature of his testimony. That said, just by skimming the threads at the end of the day, Sachak is still frying my brain. As many of us have said lately, I could change my mind tomorrow. Don't envy those jurors. (Well, I say that, but I'm pretty sure they're both going down for murder regardless.)

Unfortunately I still can't visualize the road/timeline stuff you guys are talking about, but I get the gist it's significant.

A lot of things don't make sense to me, but I suspect 99% of them are due to Sachak's unique, um, lawyering style. (I don't mean "I don't understand", as in the road stuff, I mean "they don't make sense", as in they make DM look worse or simply confuse issues hopelessly.)

Funny, I was where you were at the beginning of MS's testimony and now I've swung the other way. I believe little bits and pieces of what he says but I think he knew everything going in. I believe he was an active participant in the planning and execution.

Like you, I can't really put it all together. I just "know". There's too many little pieces that when I put them all together I see him being very involved from the beginning.

I think, the only place where the "plan fell apart" was when DM was arrested and then he was on his own. His fantasy tale regarding the gun made me see him in a whole other light. Totally and unequivocally guilty. I still don't think he pulled the trigger but he knew it was going to happen.

MOO

 

[ArianeEmory]

I agree that DM's defence is doing nothing to help him and ironically they are only helping the Crown to convict MS, IMO, and I know that's not their objective ... Or is it? Maybe DM accepts a conviction is in his future and is refusing to go down alone?

All MOO.

Your last sentence occurred to me earlier today, that he sees some of MS's testimony playing not that badly (to some, if I've read the room correctly) and has moved on to vengeance, like with his father.

(Maybe I'm giving him too much credit--WM may have meant nothing more to him than an obstacle, although I bet he was quite angry about WM "hiding debts".)

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

This is a really good article. I don't think MS's rap lyrics and performances should have been brought into this trial. As the article suggests, rappers take on a persona and yet it is not the persona on trial, it is the person. There is a difference.

I believe MS is guilty, but my opinion was not based at all on his raps. If convicted, could MS appeal the conviction by saying that the introduction of the rap evidence was prejudicial to him? Maybe this type of issue was all sorted out between the lawyers with legal arguments before? I have no idea. While MS's rap persona does nothing to convince me of his guilt, I do think it could go against him with some members of the jury.

All MOO.

Very well said! I totally agree.

MOO

 

[Mikala]

Sachak just said "Mr. Bosma got out of the driver's side" when talking about Millard. Smich shakes his head at him. "Excuse me?"
by Adam Carter 2:32 PM

.....was it just me who thought that was a Freudian slip of Sachak's tongue? It was a very strange thing to say I thought, since we've not heard anything about Mr. Bosma exiting the truck, that I recall. Perhaps my imagination is being carried away, into a magical forest filled with mushrooms, but I wondered if this is going to be part of the Defence scenario as to how Mr. Bosma was shot. Just a thought.....

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

One of the things I'm questioning is if MS pulled the trigger, why did DM take over cleaning up HIS mess and not included him in such things as, dumping TB's truck at his mother's house. Going back to the farm to move the incinerator. Giving him the DVR. All things he took CN along for INSTEAD of MS. I'm sorry I don't care who "my brother" is. No one is that gracious to clean up HIS mess alone. Especially a murder and especially not DM IMO.

Excellent points ... It is great to read so many different perspectives on WS ... So frequently I say to myself "Wow ... I hadn't thought of that." [emoji6]

 

[Oreck]

I believe MS in the sense he didn't know there would be murder and it was not part of the plan. I do think the plan was going to be a car jacking and MS would be following in the Yukon. If I was only there to scope and was asked to get out and follow I'd probably ask why wtf unless I was notified of a plan before head.

I don't agree.
I think they had this all pre-planned and it went off exactly as planned.
They knew they could not come back later and steal a truck that had a chipped key.
They brought the red truck's plates along for a reason.
" An all-nighter "

D+M are GAC (guilty as charged) MHOO.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

One of the things I'm questioning is if MS pulled the trigger, why did DM take over cleaning up HIS mess and not included him in such things as, dumping TB's truck at his mother's house. Going back to the farm to move the incinerator. Giving him the DVR. All things he took CN along for INSTEAD of MS. I'm sorry I don't care who "my brother" is. No one is that gracious to clean up HIS mess alone. Especially a murder and especially not DM IMO.

Really good point. thx

 

[Alethea Dice]

Isn't it possible that one phone was replaced by another phone, at which time the sim card from the first phone would be inserted into the second phone, and etc? Just because a person gets a new phone doesn't mean they necessarily get a new number/sim card. If the phone had been damaged or he just wanted a new phone for whatever reason, same sim card can be used. Also, when putting a phone out of use, one might want to dispose of the sim card to ensure no further billing activity can occur? Just a thought. moo

Not according to MS. MS testified that he wasn't sure how many SIM cards he had, but there would be a "couple" of them and he would swap them out in the different phones. Three of the phones at MM's sister's house took SIM cards, but not one SIM card was found.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zxyo_MC4bf28IMfFvSuu5ETlebQlyw__2QSDhYkGxMU/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=156108166

 

[Alethea Dice]

Hmmmmm. There is a reason Sachak is going on and on about this hoodie.

Blood, perhaps?

The hoodie and the black backpack seem to have also done a disappearing act as well. IIRC, there were some grommets found in the burn spot at the farm. Anything else that may have come from a hoodie or backpack?

 

[Alethea Dice]

hmmm IF they were only on a scoping mission at the time of the test drive, then WHY did DM have the plates off the red Dodge??? Premeditation on DM's part for sure, unless they were going to try the hot wire trick!!!!
If they were planning on coming back after the test drive later that night or a day later with the red Dodge plus the trailer then they would NOT have needed the plates. JMO

How do we know he did? I believe the only testimony we've heard about that is from MS and his credibility isn't faring too well. JMO

 

[puppyraiser]

Going over MS's testimony today and a couple things caught my attention. First, he mentioned the late hour of the test drive being odd. It sounds like previous missions to 'scope' would be during daylight to check surroundings, cameras, traffic etc. DM was in charge of driving to the scene and he's the one who delayed the time of arrival, not MS. Second, he said the glass in the passenger window was NOT broken at the time he first saw Mr Bosma after he was shot. He said there was a bullet hole and the glass was shattered at a different time (probably during cleanup at the hangar, I suspect).

IF the bullet hole story is true then If he was in the truck at the time of the shooting and was the possible shooter then he would have had to use his LEFT hand to fire the gun to produce a bullet hole in the window. I have a shoulder injury that includes significant pain lifting my arm when the bones have shifted in the socket. It isn't a daily issue but when it does flare up, the pain is intense.

I understand MS is right handed and it would be uncomfortable and awkward for him to fire a gun using his left hand, especially with his shoulder acting up. Even if he had moved to the driver's side in the back seat, the firing angle probably wouldn't produce a hole in the window. A left handed person is going to fire a gun with their left hand and it makes sense to me that DM probably did fire while driving and may even have fired more than one shot (missed once and went through the window). Would that type of bullet be a through and through at close range?

DM's letters also infer that at times not everyone on the missions had all the info. So it is conceivable that he fully planned a carjacking and brought a gun along and MS wasn't aware of all aspects of the plan.

 

[Claroon]

So to defend DM would have to point the finger at MS being guilty I would think. (I believe they are equally guilty, just thinking for Sachak) Maybe all of this is MS framing DM. Why were there no prints from MS, but one very important print of DM's not cleaned off? Did MS leave it there on purpose?

Did his big brother provide the way of cleaning up the mess by letting him use his bbq and propane?

Did MS shoot TB as a way of trying to prove he had it in him to do scary missions, and to prove his gangster cred.

Why when such a horrific thing occurred would he follow DM to a dark and creepy farm? Was he that detached from reality? Could his detachment from reality mean he shot TB with no conscience and he's looking for a scapegoat?

How could they both be so matter-of-fact after killing a human?
Maybe ask him what proof we have that DM shot him other than his testimony? What's to say they both didn't get a shot in? Speculating.

 

[torontoguy31]

even if they had the clothes MS was wearing that night, will not prove he shot TB or was present during the shooting as DNA, gun residue would easily transfer during cleanup which MS has testified too.

jmo

 

[mimimic]

I don't agree.
I think they had this all pre-planned and it went off exactly as planned.
They knew they could not come back later and steal a truck that had a chipped key.
They brought the red truck's plates along for a reason.
" An all-nighter "

D+M are GAC (guilty as charged) MHOO.

I sat and stared at your post, to contemplate this and not just the car jacking instead is so mind boggling. brought a hot tear to my eyes. This is the question years from now that will still be asked (it's when i hear SB plea and her words saying it's just a truck) Damn them

 

[CJPRINCESS]

.....was it just me who thought that was a Freudian slip of Sachak's tongue? It was a very strange thing to say I thought, since we've not heard anything about Mr. Bosma exiting the truck, that I recall. Perhaps my imagination is being carried away, into a magical forest filled with mushrooms, but I wondered if this is going to be part of the Defence scenario as to how Mr. Bosma was shot. Just a thought.....

I think it was just a name slip error on Mr S's part. TB was in the front passenger seat and that's where the shattered window was and all the blood.

 

[DMB]

Not according to MS. MS testified that he wasn't sure how many SIM cards he had, but there would be a "couple" of them and he would swap them out in the different phones. Three of the phones at MM's sister's house took SIM cards, but not one SIM card was found.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...__2QSDhYkGxMU/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=156108166

At my house with my 25 yr old and myself I counted 10 phones (Blackberry, IPhone, Sam Sung, 2 tablets (I pad, Sam Sung) and 2 laptops and that's not counting my daughter who goes through an average of 2 a year nor the ones that were stolen (2) or lost (2). Some have different problems, cracked screen etc yet depending on who your communicating with and how you switch them up. Sounds confusing but very average.

 

[toom]

I understand MS is right handed and it would be uncomfortable and awkward for him to fire a gun using his left hand, especially with his shoulder acting up. Even if he had moved to the driver's side in the back seat, the firing angle probably wouldn't produce a hole in the window. A left handed person is going to fire a gun with their left hand and it makes sense to me that DM probably did fire while driving and may even have fired more than one shot (missed once and went through the window). Would that type of bullet be a through and through at close range?

I was also just thinking of the line of questioning involving MS not having a license, and why he would be driving a Yukon.

Didn't the GSR imply TB was shot from the drivers' side? Is DM's lawyer suggesting MS wouldn't have been driving the Yukon when DM shot TB, but we're supposed to believe MS "screwed up" by shooting TB while he was positioned to be driving the truck? Yeah, no, maybe not...

 

[Oreck]

Actually DM did have the carpet out of the Yukon, the yellow TJ and the Red Ram. You see the Ram floors and TJ floors in the FB BAJA pics. The evidence photos show the Yukon floors with no carpet.

Do you suppose he shot someone in there too.